Is Hugill any better than Morris?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Simple really, is he?

I'm doubtful to be honest, think this is may be our most expensive mistake since Franke (although still not as expensive as the mistakes made by those who preceded Webber, Wildschut and Naismith in particular). 

[lake district canary 4,531]

Why the urge to label him a mistake when he has only played mostly cameo roles, mostly coming into games late on where we are confronted by packed defences with very little space to manouvre in?  And lets be fair, even Teemu has found it hard to find space for long spells in matches (which makes his goal tally even more impressive). And if Morris was seen as a better prospect, he would have been called back. 

Give it some time, still early days for him. Maybe he will get a start in the FA cup and get more minutes on pitch that way, to boost his credentials.  Rhodes kept his eye in with good efforts in cup games, Hugill will presumably get that chance too.

[sonyc 5,511]

Yes

[hogesar 9,657]

Yes, he is.

[Indy_Bones 441]

I'd say he is, but as I don't rate Morris at all, that's hardly high praise...

[Newtopia 517]

I think Hugill is the better player.  Morris has not scored at Championship level yet.

[Branston Pickle 3,654]

Very much so

[Brown Canary 1]

We can’t really judge Hugill on just a handful of appearances , especially that most of his game time has been late cameos.. However, he did come on and play well in the defeat against Derby forcing two great saves and scored the winning pen versus Rotherham.. we’ve got to give him a chance..

Carlton Morris has performed well on loan in league 1 , but he is a 300k player & that is his standard.. Jordan Hugill was signed for 9 million a couple of years ago and we have got him for a couple of million which I personally think will prove to be good business for us .. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Brown Canary said:

Jordan Hugill was signed for 9 million a couple of years ago

I get the point about him needing more of a chance, and that the FA Cup may give him a chance to impress.

But that fee looks ludicrious for a 1 goal in 4.5 games Championship striker.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Brown Canary said:

but he is a 300k player & that is his standard.. 

I mean... plenty of players have moved for small fees which proved to be a bargain.

Hoolahan was £250k from Blackpool wasn't he? 

Holt £600k, a year after moving to Shrewsbury for £300k? 

 

[Brown Canary 1]

Teemu Van Basten 

You cannot compare Holt and Hoolahan whilst both were £250k & £400k respectively that wasn’t the comparison.

We paid 2.5 Million for Hugill and West Ham did pay 9 million for him , Carlton had been on the fringes for us and been on loan in League 1 and is valued at 300k and I wish him well .. 

JH needs game time and we’ll judge him when he’s had a run in the team 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Morris' main problem has been his injuries. He could have ended up being a more than capable striker for us but has repeatedly has his progress stunted by injuries. As it is, he's proving to be a solid league 1 player and could probably do a job in the championship lower down. Hugill is far more proven than Morris and has barely even had time to settle in with us yet

[CanaryChris 146]

What poppycock. Of course he is.

Edited December 29, 2020 by CanaryChris

[BroadstairsR 2,161]

He may not have had much of a chance to shine, he may have had an injury at an unfortunate time, he may need time to settle in, our style of play may not suit him, but all the excuses under the Sun fail to refute the fact that Hugill's performances thus far have been entirely underwhelming to the extent that the OP feels compelled to make the original statement comparing him with Morris and I, personally, regret his signing.

So far, and for the financial outlay, it does seem that we could have done better. It's always a lottery and the player had some (limited) pedigree but I've seen enough to suggest that he has insufficient in his armoury to be the answer to the striking requirements of a promotion chasing team in the Championship should Pukki be put out of action for a medium to long-term spell. It's a frightener. A complete bubble burster waiting to happen. A disaster in the making which borders onto recklessness when comparing that potential situation to the striking talent of some of our rivals. 

I have more faith in Idah in that respect and that is saying something as it is becoming clear that the youngster needs a bit more time.

Splashing the cash, to a certain extent, on a striker in January is, imo, imperative. Probably a loan for now. Neither am I suggesting McNally style recklessness in this respect but we have battled our way through thick and thin to be in the position of strength that we currently find ourselves in.  Why risk wasting it for a few million? Surely this season is giving us the best chance ever of going up again?

"Don't spoil the ship for a ha'porth of tar," is my belief, and it is a "ha'porth" when compared to the prize available. 

'Easier said than done,' you could say. For the most part our scouting/recruiting has come up trumps for the last few seasons. They will always have potentials in mind surely?

Besides it's a particularly hard and strenuous season which will induce more injuries. It's an extraordinary situation which requires expansive measures in response to imaginative thinking. A 'four pronged striking' approach  might prove decisive. We've already possibly lost goals and points due to not having a striker on the pitch for a couple of games. The lesson has been given, let the learning be shown.

Let's hope that the cavalry awaits on the horizon in the form of a cluster of young talent. It's the 'now' I'm concerned with however.

Edited December 29, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[Samwam27 527]

Definitely yes. As has been said, we have to give him time. Iwan Roberts wasn't great for us in his first season. He needs time and games to adapt, and to be fair, he's only had late cameo's, and when he has played we've tended to play narrow, without wingers to get those crosses in.

He scored 15 or so goals at this level last season. No disrespect to Morris, but he's never come close to that (albeit not having the chances at this level) but he's hardly banging them in at a lower level.

Our formation and type of players suits Pukki, but we need to adapt formations if we're to see best out of Hugill 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Definitely yes. As has been said, we have to give him time. Iwan Roberts wasn't great for us in his first season. He needs time and games to adapt, and to be fair, he's only had late cameo's, and when he has played we've tended to play narrow, without wingers to get those crosses in.

He scored 15 or so goals at this level last season. No disrespect to Morris, but he's never come close to that (albeit not having the chances at this level) but he's hardly banging them in at a lower level.

Our formation and type of players suits Pukki, but we need to adapt formations if we're to see best out of Hugill

You ever read Iwan's book? He let himself get out of shape and overweight, he basically got an ultimatum to lose lots of weight or p*ss off.... And he radically changed his way of life. 

Comparison with Hugill makes no sense. And that's before you consider the fact that Iwan had been prolific earlier in his career.... Hugill hasn't. 

 

[Walcombe canary 69]

Michael McGovern was poor until he had a run in the team. Once he got used to our defence, and they got used to him things improved. And according to some, he became ( not poor ). The same chance has to be given to Jordan Hugill. Give him a run, and he will get used to the system, and the team will get used to Jordan. However, if Jordan is to get a run, then that will mean Teemu is either injured, or not scoring.

As for Carlton Morris. Good Luck to him. Has been very unfortunate with a very serious injury. I wish him all the best. Except for when he plays against us.

[Walcombe canary 69]

I do find it difficult to take in, how easy it is for our players to be criticised. 

[NeymarSmith 130]

Surely hugills biggest crime is that he doesn't fit our style - which is perfect to pukki.

I accept his first touch has been awful, but he can't have a truly awful.bad touch other wise he wouldn't be a professional, it must be mainly lack of minutes.

But our style is playing to pukki strength rather than Hugills. I would imagine pukki would look bang average if he played in a team intent on putting in crosses and playing to Hugills strength.

I assume idah is being trained and has been thought of as highly because he plays and makes similar runs to pukki. Jordan Hugill I'd assume, has been brought in to be different, a plan b.

To compare to Holt, is that fair? A Norwich legend against someone who hasnt even had a whole 90mins. And what of Holt, would he even in his best form, fit into farke team? Or would he fair much the same as Hugill so far?

[Mason 47 1,376]

There's a reason he's repeatedly gone out on loan to lower league sides and never progressed with us- injuries playing a big part in that.

Hugill is a striker fancied by David Moyes as PL-capable at £9 million; whatever you think to him as a manager, he knows that level of football. Morris v Hugill is a washout.

Hugill v Idah, however... that's the one to watch.

[sgncfc 1,227]

Hugill is more than a goalscorer and if people keep judging him on that alone, he will look like a poor buy. He gives us a way of breaking up play when we are struggling; he occupies centre backs to create space - in particular against packed defences he can take them deeper to give the likes of Buendia and Vrancic an extra millisecond to make that pass to Pukki. He also defends set pieces and gives us a focus on corners we don't otherwise have.

It's early days - Webber/Farke have made transfer errors, but Hugill isn't yet one of them. 

[unique 435]

27 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Hugill is more than a goalscorer and if people keep judging him on that alone, he will look like a poor buy. He gives us a way of breaking up play when we are struggling; he occupies centre backs to create space - in particular against packed defences he can take them deeper to give the likes of Buendia and Vrancic an extra millisecond to make that pass to Pukki. He also defends set pieces and gives us a focus on corners we don't otherwise have.

It's early days - Webber/Farke have made transfer errors, but Hugill isn't yet one of them. 

You lost me at “Hugill is more than a goalscorer”. 
 

11 assists from 260 games suggests not.

He wears a number 9 on his back. He is there to score goals. He is far from prolific for a centre-forward, and for the money that has been splashed out for his services I’d say he’s a very lucky boy.

[kirku 1,332]

6 minutes ago, unique said:

You lost me at “Hugill is more than a goalscorer”. 
 

11 assists from 260 games suggests not.

He wears a number 9 on his back. He is there to score goals. He is far from prolific for a centre-forward, and for the money that has been splashed out for his services I’d say he’s a very lucky boy.

"Hugill is more than a goalscorer" cannot be measured by assists.

I've been underwhelmed by his performances but he's not really had enough game time. As others have said, if Pukki got a lengthy injury, we'd have some serious issues.

Is he better than Morris? Almost certainly, but I've hardly seen either of them play for us.

[BroadstairsR 2,161]

The opening post is irrelevant. The OP is being a bit of a tease.

It's not a question of whether he is better than Morris, better than Idah or even better than Dean Coney it's more a question of whether he is capable of filling in for Pukki should the need arise.

So far it seems to be a negative, and I, for one, am getting a peed off geeing the situation up by listening to all the excuses as to why he's contributed Sweet Fanny Adams during the opportunities that he has been afforded.

We reportedly tinkered with the game plan (hardly a credible Plan B though) against Watford to presumably nourish his strengths. All I remember him doing was neglecting an obvious lay-off with a highly speculative and ultimately pathetic attempt at goal. I don't think that the ball went anywhere near his head, and he's no Tony Hateley or Keith Scott 😄😄😄 at the best of times. He certainly failed to rattle a strong Watford back-line at all or with anything and I was left miffed that we lost a potential hit man 😉 in Cantwell for that limited contribution.

It's not simply a question of unfairly rampaging against a player who hasn't been given the opportunity to impress. He has, albeit in a limited way. It's not scapegoating. It's not premature and it's not unfair.. If he's not good enough then so be it. We want to get promoted this season after all and it's often fine margins.

Ok! I'll melt. He was once rated at nearly £10m by an experienced manager whose little toe has more experience of the professional game than I ever will have. Farke speaks well of him. We therefore persevere with this player rather than investing in an alternative in some way. However,  if it all comes unstuck give us, all his doubters, the opportunity to say, "I told you so."

Edited December 29, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[Van wink 2,994]

18 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Simple really, is he?

I'm doubtful to be honest, think this is may be our most expensive mistake since Franke (although still not as expensive as the mistakes made by those who preceded Webber, Wildschut and Naismith in particular). 

How do we judge TVB

[lake district canary 4,531]

I'm going to keep an open mind with Hugill.  I would like to think that he is doing really well in training, fitting in well, showing that he is learning all the time, deserving of a place on the bench and that when he gets on the pitch he will get that guilt edge chance that he can put away and get him on the goal trail. 

[BroadstairsR 2,161]

Hope you are right, but we've been wishing that for half a season now.

One of my early games saw the debut of one Ron Tudor Davies. He caused problems for the opposing defence from the outset and was eventually rewarded with a goal. 

Now I'm not saying that I expect Hugill to be a Ron Davies and I'm not even putting him in the same category but Ron D. was a relatively inexperienced youngster of 20 years and he managed to be a presence throughout. I've hardly noticed Hugill.  

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,813]

It's a valid question, but criticising Hugill's goalscoring record whilst favouring Morris is a curious one because his record at Championship level over the past three seasons is 20 in 85, whereas Morris' record at League One level is 14 in 91.

Obviously there's more to a striker's game than just goals and players can improve or go off the boil at any time, but Morris and Hugill are both strong target man type strikers and the disparity in age isn't huge- Morris is 25 and Hugill is 28.

Given Hugill's history of having teams spend several million on him while Morris is about to move for relative peanuts, I think the obvious conclusion is that those in the game all feel Hugill is the better player.

[Pukki Blinders 96]

In the 7 seasons Morris has had where he’s played games for a club, he’s never scored above 8 league goals, and in 5 of those 7 seasons he hasn’t scored more than 5 goals. Yes, he’s been seriously hampered by injuries, but his career total in all competitions is 30 goals in 180 games. 1 goal every 6 games, with all of those goals either coming in League One, League Two or Scotland. He’s not exactly a youngster any more either, he’ll be 26 in 2021.

Hugill, on the other hand, has scored 8 or more goals in 3 of his 6 Championship seasons, including 15 in 41 games for QPR last season. 

Is he prolific at this level? No.

Has he been underwhelming since he signed for us? Yeah, a bit.

Does he deserve to labelled as worse than Morris, a striker who has been average at best at League One level, and written off by fans after a grand total of 14 games, only 4 of which are starts and 8 of them are cameo appearances that lasted 10 minutes or less? Of course he doesn’t.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Pukki Blinders

[pete 318]

just to put the record straight Morris scored a cracker for MK, close control and good finish after long run.  Hugill needs to do the same.