When will the UK rejoin the EU?

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,180]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Kent to liverpool is 4 hours 31 minutes. That's the longest. The time to get to Estonia would be no longer once on the continent anyway. Obviously, this would only be a consideration in the event that the EU got really difficult about transporting stuff directly to the continent. 

As to 'I'm good with Brexit, I now want to see what we were promised, a free trade agreement with the EU that is the easiest deal in history.'... I'd like to see an end to really boring facetious remarks, but we don't always get what we want in life, sadly. 

4 hours 31 minutes is very precise. And very wrong for an HGV. I used to live in Kent and it could take longer than that to get out of the county!

My comment isn´t facetious, I just want to see a trade agreement that was promised. Is it wrong to expect that we should get what we were told we would get?

[duke63 541]

10 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Kent to liverpool is 4 hours 31 minutes. That's the longest. The time to get to Estonia would be no longer once on the continent anyway. Obviously, this would only be a consideration in the event that the EU got really difficult about transporting stuff directly to the continent. 

As to 'I'm good with Brexit, I now want to see what we were promised, a free trade agreement with the EU that is the easiest deal in history.'... I'd like to see an end to really boring facetious remarks, but we don't always get what we want in life, sadly. 

Ireland will become one Nation again within the next 20 years in all likelihood, possibly sooner.

A republican party has just won power in NI so its only a matter of time.

Then all that money making Liverpool the new Calais will have been wasted.

[horsefly 4,273]

1 minute ago, duke63 said:

Ireland will become one Nation again within the next 20 years in all likelihood, possibly sooner.

A republican party has just won power in NI so its only a matter of time.

Then all that money making Liverpool the new Calais will have been wasted.

It was interesting to hear Chris Patton being interviewed by Andrew Marr on LBC yesterday. He argued that the re-election of a Tory Party under Johnson's leadership would guarantee the break up of the Union. As he put it, if you want to make the case for the independence of Scotland, just send Johnson there.

[horsefly 4,273]

One of the most depressing things about the discussion of the last few pages is how we have become engaged in tortuous discussion about arcane ways to mitigate the Brexit effects on trade exports. It looks more like a script for Yes Minister that got rejected because it was simply too farcical. To think that just a couple of years ago exporters would pack their lorries full of goods and send them off to Dover; no tariffs, minimal paperwork, no fuss. 

[Badger 2,405]

12 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Liverpool is a major city with good road connections to the rest of the country; Produce from the continent to NI is already bypassing the UK and is being transported on long haul ferries to the republic and up to the North, so the routes are already established. That's even with the FTA in place, so if the EU really did want to make things difficult, then rerouting to go via Ireland is absolutely a viable workaround if the EU really was making things difficult as far as Dover Calais was concerned. 

https://hannontransport.com/2021/02/10/brexit-challenges-serving-the-irish-food-and-horticultural-markets/

Sorry LYB but I find it hard to even take the idea seriously as it is so ridiculous.

1. The logistical changes that you are suggesting are massive and the idea that they could just be switched around is impossible. leaving aside the physical and staffing capacity of the docks themselves, the idea that you could just re-route all the lorry transport without a devastating effect on transport in the UK.

2. The Irish export far less to the EU than we do, the idea that they could exponentially increase their port capacity so rapidly is for the birds.

3. Then you have the issue of all the lorries getting off at the Irish port, leave and then having to queue for an EU-bound ferry: it would be chaos.

4. Do you think that the EU would notice what was happening, even if the Irish ports had the capacity (which, of course, they don't). It would be dead easy to spot the lorries that were just being used to escape the the rules. 

5. Furthermore, how would the UK evade tariffs on invisibles (services) which are a big component of our trade?

It would be far cheaper and quicker to trade on WTO rules - the idea that we would "simply" re-route all our trade through Ireland is one of the most fantastical ideas that we have ever heard on this board and let's be honest there have been plenty.

I think that it is so ridiculous that even the "dodgy" websites that promoted lies about the EU/ politics have even dared to suggest it for fear of being ridiculed. If thigs fell apart, we would revert to WTO, which I believe, is the line that most of your fellow travellers would take.

[duke63 541]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

It was interesting to hear Chris Patton being interviewed by Andrew Marr on LBC yesterday. He argued that the re-election of a Tory Party under Johnson's leadership would guarantee the break up of the Union. As he put it, if you want to make the case for the independence of Scotland, just send Johnson there.

Its inevitable also the Scotland will eventually break away too with the rhetoric that comes from the Tory HQ.

Then all those things held dear by the Tory party and the older generation will be gone for good - No more UK, no more Great Britain, no more Union Jack flag.

The commonwealth is also starting to break up as Countries realise there is no relevance to having an overall ruler living in a Country thousands of miles away...and in fact is only that because Britons once conquered their land ( and in many cases stole their resources).

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

1 hour ago, duke63 said:

Ireland will become one Nation again within the next 20 years in all likelihood, possibly sooner.

A republican party has just won power in NI so its only a matter of time.

Then all that money making Liverpool the new Calais will have been wasted.

How wonderfully simplistic. When you put it like that, it's a wonder the Good Friday agreement was necessary in the first place. 

[duke63 541]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

How wonderfully simplistic. When you put it like that, it's a wonder the Good Friday agreement was necessary in the first place. 

The Good Friday agreement actually states that the future of NI will be decided by the people living IN NI and not by the British Government.

 

 

You are here: Home > Government in Ireland > Ireland and the UK > The Good Friday Agreement

The Good Friday Agreement

• Introduction
• The British-Irish Agreement
• The Multi-Party Agreement
• Other areas covered
• Brexit and the Good Friday Agreement

Introduction

The Good Friday Agreement, which is also known as the Belfast Agreement, was signed on Good Friday, 10 April 1998. It consists of two closely related agreements, the British-Irish Agreement and the Multi-Party Agreement. It led to the establishment of a system of devolved government in Northern Ireland and the creation of many new institutions such as the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive, the North South Ministerial Council and the British-Irish Council.

The Good Friday Agreement was approved by referendums held in both Ireland and Northern Ireland on 22 May 1998. Voters in Northern Ireland were asked to approve the Multi-Party Agreement and voters in Ireland were asked to approve both the Multi-Party Agreement and certain constitutional changes in the British-Irish Agreement.

The British-Irish Agreement

The British-Irish Agreement is an agreement between the British and Irish governments. The Agreement committed to the various institutions set out in the Multi-Party Agreement. It also sets out the agreed position of both governments on Northern Ireland’s current and future status.

Under the terms of the British-Irish Agreement, both governments:

• Recognised the legitimacy of any choice made by the people of Northern Ireland whether to continue as part of the United Kingdom (UK) or to become part of a united Ireland (the principle of self-determination)

[Badger 2,405]

10 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

I just want to see a trade agreement that was promised. Is it wrong to expect that we should get what we were told we would get?

Not wrong, but naive, I'm afraid. The 2019 election was the worst in my lifetime (even worse than 2010) with both major parties making impossible promises and flagrantly inaccurate propaganda being pumped through the press. It was a real nadir in British politics and the situation has barely improved.

[canarydan23 4,060]

17 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So give up sending all goods via France and send them through NI into Ireland instead to go to the EU via the Republic of Ireland. What's it going to do? Put a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic? The Republic will veto. Check goods between the Republic and the continent? Same again.

That's a great idea! I mean, there is the slight issue that the increased costs and times associated with that would probably cripple 95% of exporting companies, but that's a price worth paying for blue passports!

[canarydan23 4,060]

9 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

How wonderfully simplistic. When you put it like that, it's a wonder the Good Friday agreement was necessary in the first place.

Almost as simplistic as saying that goods passing from Dover to Calais could simply be re-routed to the continent via Liverpool, Belfast then presumably Cork and Cherbourg?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

21 minutes ago, Badger said:

Sorry LYB but I find it hard to even take the idea seriously as it is so ridiculous.

1. The logistical changes that you are suggesting are massive and the idea that they could just be switched around is impossible. leaving aside the physical and staffing capacity of the docks themselves, the idea that you could just re-route all the lorry transport without a devastating effect on transport in the UK.

2. The Irish export far less to the EU than we do, the idea that they could exponentially increase their port capacity so rapidly is for the birds.

3. Then you have the issue of all the lorries getting off at the Irish port, leave and then having to queue for an EU-bound ferry: it would be chaos.

4. Do you think that the EU would notice what was happening, even if the Irish ports had the capacity (which, of course, they don't). It would be dead easy to spot the lorries that were just being used to escape the the rules. 

5. Furthermore, how would the UK evade tariffs on invisibles (services) which are a big component of our trade?

It would be far cheaper and quicker to trade on WTO rules - the idea that we would "simply" re-route all our trade through Ireland is one of the most fantastical ideas that we have ever heard on this board and let's be honest there have been plenty.

I think that it is so ridiculous that even the "dodgy" websites that promoted lies about the EU/ politics have even dared to suggest it for fear of being ridiculed. If thigs fell apart, we would revert to WTO, which I believe, is the line that most of your fellow travellers would take.

You say it would be cheaper and quicker to just trade on WTO rules, yet here we are with an FTA, and Ireland has rerouted from a 20 hour UK landbridge to get to the continent to a 40-hour ferry crossing to the continent to avoid customs complications of entering and leaving non-EU territory. Market forces have done that, not any initiatives by any governments. 

It's an extreme hypothetical and extreme scenario, in response to the ridiculous scenario pushed that the EU is ever going to tear up the UK EU FTA 

As to how ridiculous this scenario is, the Falklands go to great lengths to work around sanctions driven by Argentina; Kalinigrad now gets all its goods to and from Russia by sea instead of via Lithuania because Lithuania has forbidden transit. I'm sure those in Kalinigrad would have said that was ridiculous to, before it became necessary. How ridiculous ways of doing things are is entirely is dependent on the scenario within which they're considered. 

It's a workable, if difficult option that would be viable in an extreme scenario, which would be a nuisance for UK business, just as long haul ferries from Cork to Roscoff have been a nuisance for the Republic after the UK landbridge has become more difficult.  It's no more ridiculous than the notion that we're going to have a trade war with the EU in the first place though. 

Good to hear someone mention services being important to the UK economy again. I've mentioned them many times regarding the schedules in CPTPP, but somehow it keeps getting ignored. Almost like people don't want to acknowledge anything could be remotely positive. 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

21 minutes ago, Badger said:

I think that it is so ridiculous that even the "dodgy" websites that promoted lies about the EU/ politics have even dared to suggest it for fear of being ridiculed. If thigs fell apart, we would revert to WTO, which I believe, is the line that most of your fellow travellers would take.

Come on Badger - be serious.

I just cant imagine the Brexiteers accepting foreign arbitration bodies such as the WTO overruling our cake and eat it politicians and judging against us.

No only North Korea style isolation for them and their 'Dear' Leader. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

13 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Almost as simplistic as saying that goods passing from Dover to Calais could simply be re-routed to the continent via Liverpool, Belfast then presumably Cork and Cherbourg?

It's not simplistic; it's feasible in an extreme scenario where the EU became sufficiently difficult about transit from Dover to Calais, which is dependent on how smoothly France chooses to operate its customs operations on UK goods. Not remotely as simplistic as the notion that Unionists and Republicans in NI will suddenly have a big group hug if Sinn Fein suddenly starts getting everything its own way with no pushback. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's not simplistic; it's feasible in an extreme scenario where the EU became sufficiently difficult about transit from Dover to Calais, which is dependent on how smoothly France chooses to operate its customs operations on UK goods. 

It's not even slightly feasible.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's not even slightly feasible.

Getting on a ferry from Liverpool to Belfast, driving from Belfast to Cork, taking a ferry from Cork to Roscoff is absolutely feasible. If you think it's not, you clearly have no clue what feasible means. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[duke63 541]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's not simplistic; it's feasible in an extreme scenario where the EU became sufficiently difficult about transit from Dover to Calais, which is dependent on how smoothly France chooses to operate its customs operations on UK goods. Not remotely as simplistic as the notion that Unionists and Republicans in NI will suddenly have a big group hug if Sinn Fein suddenly starts getting everything its own way with no pushback. 

Sinn Fein is the majority party and as you conveneinetly ignore, it means that Republicans are in control of the Ni Parliament which means that we are not far away from a vote to decide if the people of NI want to re unite Ireland as one country.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

12 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Come on Badger - be serious.

I just cant imagine the Brexiteers accepting foreign arbitration bodies such as the WTO overruling our cake and eat it politicians and judging against us.

No only North Korea style isolation for them and their 'Dear' Leader. 

What baffles me is how really staunchly anti-Brexiters suddenly became so relaxed about working under WTO rules. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

3 minutes ago, duke63 said:

Sinn Fein is the majority party and as you conveneinetly ignore, it means that Republicans are in control of the Ni Parliament which means that we are not far away from a vote to decide if the people of NI want to re unite Ireland as one country.

So what? pro-unionist parties were in the majority for decades, but Sinn Fein didn't stop bombing until they started getting concessions did they? What is it about Unionists in NI that makes you think they don't have it in them to get as agitated if they're sufficiently marginalised?

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's not even slightly feasible.

Totally agree. Whatever the physical practicalities & costs there is no way the EU would allow a wide open 'back door' to the SM for a rogue state to smuggle (and I do mean illegally smuggle) goods across. No company would do it because of the criminal sanctions that would follow.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Totally agree. Whatever the physical practicalities & costs there is no way the EU would allow a wide open 'back door' to the SM for a rogue state to smuggle (and I do mean illegally smuggle) goods across. No company would do it because of the criminal sanctions that would follow.

That just proves you don't know what feasible means either. 

There would be no customs checks on that route unless the republic started doing them on Northern Ireland or continental europe started doing them on the republic. Fact. 

And people who start describing countries in customs disputes as 'rogue states' have no business talking about what is and what isn't ridiculous either. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[duke63 541]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So what? pro-unionist parties were in the majority for decades, but Sinn Fein didn't stop bombing until they started getting concessions did they? What is it about Unionists in NI that makes you think they don't have it in them to get as agitated if they're sufficiently marginalised?

So you are saying they should start bombing their own country??

What utter nonsense. They all signed up to the Good Friday agreement.

Though i notice the current vogue for Tories and Brexiteers is start to ignoring legislation that they don't like, EVEN IF they were party to its formation and actually signed agreement to it.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That just proves you don't know what feasible means either. 

There would be no customs checks on that route unless the republic started doing them on Northern Ireland or continental europe started doing them on the republic. Fact. 

It just tells me that you shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any position of any corporate responsibility. 

If you deliberately smuggle goods expect them to be seized, your 'lorry' impounded' and your driver 'charged'. Worse to follow for the company itself and its directors

Now shall we start again on sensible options?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

6 minutes ago, duke63 said:

So you are saying they should start bombing their own country??

What utter nonsense. They all signed up to the Good Friday agreement.

Though i notice the current vogue for Tories and Brexiteers is start to ignoring legislation that they don't like, EVEN IF they were party to its formation and actually signed agreement to it.

Don't you dare try and suggest I am in any way supportive of any terrorism, just because I acknowledge the possibility, you clown. 

Leaving the EU removed a cornerstone of the Good Friday agreement, leaving free movement in Ireland mollified Sinn Fein and has agitated unionists. We have already seen death threats on people building customs points for the Irish sea. It's a genuine issue and a genuine justification to use article 15 of the NI protocol if the EU won't move to accomodate unionist distress on the subject. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[canarydan23 4,060]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That just proves you don't know what feasible means either. 

There would be no customs checks on that route unless the republic started doing them on Northern Ireland or continental europe started doing them on the republic. Fact. 

And people who start describing countries in customs disputes as 'rogue states' have no business talking about what is and what isn't ridiculous either. 

Why is it that this discourse with you reminds me of a conversation I had with my 5 year old when I had to explain to her why she couldn't jump off the climbing frame as she would not be able to fly off it like Owlette from PJ Masks?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Why is it that this discourse with you reminds me of a conversation I had with my 5 year old when I had to explain to her why she couldn't jump off the climbing frame as she would not be able to fly off it like Owlette from PJ Masks?

I've no idea. Possibly because you're a half wit who believes that that's a good comparison. 

Very sorry to have tried to bring some interesting conjecture to your stupid echo chamber. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[duke63 541]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't you dare try and suggest I am in any way supportive of any terrorism, just because I acknowledge the possibility, you clown. 

Leaving the EU removed a cornerstone of the Good Friday agreement, leaving free movement in Ireland mollified Sinn Fein and has agitated unionists. We have already seen death threats on people building customs points for the Irish sea. It's a genuine issue and a genuine justification to use article 15 of the NI protocol if the EU won't move to accomodate unionist distress on the subject. 

What utter tosh.

You are in a massive minority here and its fairly obvious why. Brainwashed by Tory bull****ters.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I've no idea. Possibly because you're a half wit who believes that that's a good comparison 

It's half-wit.

Ironic.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

1 minute ago, duke63 said:

What utter tosh.

You are in a massive minority here and its fairly obvious why. Brainwashed by Tory bull****ters.

Yeah, like I said, sorry to try and add some interest to your stupid echo chamber. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,502]

29 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's not even slightly feasible.

If you want to go into grammar police mode, there's no such thing as 'slightly feasible' either, d1ck .