When will the UK rejoin the EU?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

On 06/11/2022 at 11:25, Yellow Fever said:

You do see things as black and white LYB.

As to your first point - I think the Farage Brexit lobby tried to frighten people (or play to their darker sides) on immigration - 'an invasion - 80M Turks and so on'. Brexit to those people seemed like a choice not for 'change' but for simpler older times - a world they knew. Staying in the EU was portrayed as 'change' ! Of course recent events have given the lie to all of that nonsense.

On your second point - In reality there are many shades of grey in-between being fully in or out of the EU.

Most of us would agree that formally re-entering the EU as full members would be a large task as both the UK and EU will have changed (simpler for Scotland) - but the CU or SM would be smaller and simpler steps and frankly now quite likely.  A 'Norway', Switzerland, EFTA and so on all seem so much more sensible than where we are notwithstanding the embryonic CPTTP. 

Lastly - despite your false black and white dichotomy, in a democracy, we always have a right to change our minds as the polls seem to suggest is happening.

The structure of the EU post Maastricht is all about things being black and white. Maastricht gave three pillars; Lisbon merged those three pillars into one. Prospective participants going forward are supposed to be all in, not picking and choosing what suits them. 

Politically, from the EU's perspective, I can't even see the prospects of Customs Union and/or single market membership even being entertained in isolation. I do think, however, that the new European forum proposed by Macron is in part about creating a platform where we can start working with the EU constructively while also bringing others to the table. Who knows, maybe that platform will serve the EU as a way to deal with the EU awkward squad of Hungary and Poland as well as us. 

It's one thing to regret leaving the EU, but it's quite another to sell people on the concessions that will inevatibly be demanded by the EU if we were to approach it from a position of weakness; the concessions won over the years from the EU as members are all gone. 

I get that nobody wants to hear anything positive here that doesn't involve just rejoining the EU, but the fact is that CPTPP is interesting, it does have potential for growth, and it does put us in a grouping with two other G7 nations in Canada and Japan that is a platform for rebuilding in many directions, including with the EU.

Edited November 7, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

On 05/11/2022 at 21:49, Mr Apples said:

Most people that say they have a great sense of humour watch Mr's Brown's Boys...but then still need someone to explain it to them. 🤣

Just an observation of course.

Apples

I'm fascinated that you've watched Mrs Brown's Boys with so many different people who've all claimed to have great senses of humour while also asking for you to explain the plot to them. Truly a unique insight that you have there. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

On 06/11/2022 at 09:25, PurpleCanary said:

I haven't looked into this at all. I think some studies have shown that the more educated you were, which is not necessarily the same as more intelligent, and the more travelled, you were likely to vote Remain. I suspect there were regional factors. In an economically depressed area, and particularly one where the main local industry had declined or even vanished, it was probably pretty easy to convince voters that was the fault of the EU, even if it wasn't true.

In fact EU aid to such areas had been a help. And anyone visiting far-flung parts of the UK, such as the Outer Hebrides, would come across vital infrastructure projects part-funded by Brussels. But I remember one little survey of I think it was south Wales, where EU money had been poured in, and people were asked why they'd voted Leave. The answer? They thought they were giving the Tory government a good kicking...

I'd guess a lot of it would be language-based. I'm not aware of any studies or surveys carried out but I suspect bilingual or multilingual people would probably be most likely to be Remainers.

That's a guess surmised from a NWTN (North West Translators Network) meeting just after the referendum. Usually we'll have about 10-15 in. We had about 40 this time out. And there wasn't a Brexit voter amongst them.

[Barbe bleu 814]

36 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm fascinated that you've watched Mrs Brown's Boys with so many different people who've all claimed to have great senses of humour while also asking for you to explain the plot to them. Truly a unique insight that you have there. 

We've all agreed that anyone that can keep a straight face while claiming MBB is remotely funny needs to be removed from the forum

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd guess a lot of it would be language-based. I'm not aware of any studies or surveys carried out but I suspect bilingual or multilingual people would probably be most likely to be Remainers.

That's a guess surmised from a NWTN (North West Translators Network) meeting just after the referendum. Usually we'll have about 10-15 in. We had about 40 this time out. And there wasn't a Brexit voter amongst them.

Out of curiosity, what proportion of those were European languages and what proportion non-European. I only ask because certainly everyone I know who speaks multiple European languages voted remain, but the (very small) sample I know personally of Indian and Pakistani heritage, they all voted leave. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

39 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Out of curiosity, what proportion of those were European languages and what proportion non-European. I only ask because certainly everyone I know who speaks multiple European languages voted remain, but the (very small) sample I know personally of Indian and Pakistani heritage, they all voted leave. 

All European, we're pretty much all European language translators.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

This could turn out to be rather painful for the UK https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/07/city-faces-fresh-post-brexit-blow-as-eu-moves-to-restrict-certain-trades

Well perhaps more accurately the City of London  - will make sod all difference to the other 99% percent of us!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

This could turn out to be rather painful for the UK https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/07/city-faces-fresh-post-brexit-blow-as-eu-moves-to-restrict-certain-trades

Well perhaps more accurately the City of London  - will make sod all difference to the other 99% percent of us!

A move like this in the opposite direction and people would be screaming how we were trying to create a hostile atmosphere.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

28 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

A move like this in the opposite direction and people would be screaming how we were trying to create a hostile atmosphere.

Err......we, or at least our government, has been creating a hostile atmosphere for quite some time.

It has been important part of their 'policy' platform in many areas and it required no prompting from the EU whatsoever.

It appears to be in the DNA of the incompetent right wing nutters who have been running the country for the last few years and continue to do so - so much so that even four changes of PM have made no difference whatsoever.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Err......we, or at least our government, has been creating a hostile atmosphere for quite some time.

It has been important part of their 'policy' platform in many areas and it required no prompting from the EU whatsoever.

It appears to be in the DNA of the incompetent right wing nutters who have been running the country for the last few years and continue to do so - so much so that even four changes of PM have made no difference whatsoever.

Proves my point. Anything the UK does bad; everything EU does has a good excuse as far as you're concerned.

Given your interests are tied up with the economy of the UK, you really must be a special kind of stupid.

Edited December 10, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

45 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Proves my point. Anything the UK does bad; everything EU does has a good excuse as far as you're concerned.

Given your interests are tied up with the economy of the UK, you really must be a special kind of stupid.

You, of course, are as disingenuous as ever because I said nothing of the sort with respect to the EU.

No surprise there as it has been apparent for a long time that I will never receive a relevant, well reasoned response from you to anything I actually post - your style, driven by your own prejudices and preconceptions, is invariably to make up your own distorted version of what I posted and to then, rather pathetically, attempt to scornfully demolish that.

All I did was to point out that the UK is entirely capable of, and indeed frequently has in recent years, acted badly entirely of its own volition. It is not a difficult point to understand and you are quite clearly capable of doing so. It is also factually correct but since you don't like the facts then you produce a completely fabricated deflection - sad and pathetic.

Final factual point - when you say that 'given your interests are tied up with the economy of the UK' I guess that you assume (falsely as it turns out) that all my interests are tied up with the economy of the UK. Your narrow minded little world doesn't seem to encompass the notion that many people in the UK, millions in fact, have interests in both the UK and the EU economies.

Based on the all above I would politely suggest that you are, not so much a special kind, but more an embarassing kind of stupid.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

53 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

You, of course, are as disingenuous as ever because I said nothing of the sort with respect to the EU.

No surprise there as it has been apparent for a long time that I will never receive a relevant, well reasoned response from you to anything I actually post - your style, driven by your own prejudices and preconceptions, is invariably to make up your own distorted version of what I posted and to then, rather pathetically, attempt to scornfully demolish that.

All I did was to point out that the UK is entirely capable of, and indeed frequently has in recent years, acted badly entirely of its own volition. It is not a difficult point to understand and you are quite clearly capable of doing so. It is also factually correct but since you don't like the facts then you produce a completely fabricated deflection - sad and pathetic.

Final factual point - when you say that 'given your interests are tied up with the economy of the UK' I guess that you assume (falsely as it turns out) that all my interests are tied up with the economy of the UK. Your narrow minded little world doesn't seem to encompass the notion that many people in the UK, millions in fact, have interests in both the UK and the EU economies.

Based on the all above I would politely suggest that you are, not so much a special kind, but more an embarassing kind of stupid.

Yeah yeah yeah. 'Disingenuous'; well done for the five syllable word in the insult carrying on from your bird brain thing worthy of a four year-old yesterday. Clearly upping your game.

To be honest, I haven't read any of the tiresome drivel you've written after the first insult, so save your keyboard, you silly old sod; get back to cheerleading the EU actively looking for ways to weaken the UK economy and impoverish you and those around you.

Edited December 10, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,748]

7 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

This could turn out to be rather painful for the UK https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/dec/07/city-faces-fresh-post-brexit-blow-as-eu-moves-to-restrict-certain-trades

Well perhaps more accurately the City of London  - will make sod all difference to the other 99% percent of us!

Avoiding the never ending LYB diatribe (it seems his view is whatever the Tory party says it is on the day)

All the EU is doing is making a 'strategic' decision to bring more of the financial services / sector that it relies upon more clearly under its direct control - after all you can never quite trust what the future may hold otherwise (it's no different to the UK wanting to be more energy self-sufficient)

None of this is unexpected & indeed largely foretold.

It's just another manifestation of the slow puncture post Brexit of the economy. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Avoiding the never ending LYB diatribe (it seems his view is whatever the Tory party says it is on the day)

All the EU is doing is making a 'strategic' decision to bring more of the financial services / sector that it relies upon more clearly under its direct control - after all you can never quite trust what the future may hold otherwise (it's no different to the UK wanting to be more energy self-sufficient)

None of this is unexpected & indeed largely foretold.

It's just another manifestation of the slow puncture post Brexit of the economy. 

Well, you have your dollars nicely stacked away, so I suppose at least you can afford to be this smug. Good for you, I say.

[Indy 3,283]

17 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Avoiding the never ending LYB diatribe (it seems his view is whatever the Tory party says it is on the day)

All the EU is doing is making a 'strategic' decision to bring more of the financial services / sector that it relies upon more clearly under its direct control - after all you can never quite trust what the future may hold otherwise (it's no different to the UK wanting to be more energy self-sufficient)

None of this is unexpected & indeed largely foretold.

It's just another manifestation of the slow puncture post Brexit of the economy. 

The EU is doing what the EU warned would happen, we alienated ourselves out that market, the EU are in context now a direct competitor in selling goods to the global market and will look after its own interests! 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

40 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Yeah yeah yeah. 'Disingenuous'; well done for the five syllable word in the insult carrying on from your bird brain thing worthy of a four year-old yesterday. Clearly upping your game.

To be honest, I haven't read any of the tiresome drivel you've written after the first insult, so save your keyboard, you silly old sod; get back to cheerleading the EU actively looking for ways to weaken the UK economy and impoverish you and those around you.

😂 So eminently predictable and really, I don't deserve any praise for using that particular five syllable word, it is one that quite naturally, and very frequently, comes to mind whilst reading your posts.

😂 Another of your unfortunate personality traits which is actually pretty amusing is that for someone who is quite ready, indeed some might say a bit hasty, to reach for an insult whenever it suits, you either take, or more probably feign, a ridiculous and blustering level of indignity whenever someone returns the favour.

So I'll apologise in advance for repeating myself and say again that you sir are a complete prat.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

8 minutes ago, Indy said:

The EU is doing what the EU warned would happen, we alienated ourselves out that market, the EU are in context now a direct competitor in selling goods to the global market and will look after its own interests! 

Well they need to get a move on in looking after their own interests as according to the OCED food price inflation is higher there than here

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

29 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Avoiding the never ending LYB diatribe (it seems his view is whatever the Tory party says it is on the day)

Certainly seems that way, and why not, apparently there are still 25%ish of the voters who do still think that way - although that is almost certainly over-stating the real number as that is the number that might vote for them (currently),  but it also includes quite a few who don't seem to agree with the Government's view but have some sort of cognitive bypass that prevents them from voting for an alternative.

But what I find a bit odd (not just about LYB but Tories generally, and ministers and their spokespeople especially) is that they still haven't twigged, despite the very obvious lessons of the last year or two and the current parlous state of the country, is that trying to defend the indefensible is significantly counter-productive with the vast majority of voters, and even with some of their own MPs.

So let's hope they contine with the good work 😃

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

On 28/12/2020 at 21:48, BigFish said:

Probably within five years the UK will be looking to join EFTA or the EEA in order to take full advantage of the Single Market. After the 2016 result we had to leave, but support for that decision is ebbing away. It will be very much a minority interest by the end of the decade.

Nobody can join EFTA without the EU approving it. As Creative Midfielder demonstrated with a post earlier elsewhere, the EU is fully invested in hurting the UK in any way it can, apparently with the blessing of a lot of posters on here.

[Well b back 3,190]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Nobody can join EFTA without the EU approving it. As Creative Midfielder demonstrated with a post earlier elsewhere, the EU is fully invested in hurting the UK in any way it can, apparently with the blessing of a lot of posters on here.

If that’s true, why did Farage assure us that we would be able to hurt them and they would not be able to hurt us.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

If that’s true, why did Farage assure us that we would be able to hurt them and they would not be able to hurt us.

You tell me. Your the one who listened to him, not me.

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

22 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Nobody can join EFTA without the EU approving it. As Creative Midfielder demonstrated with a post earlier elsewhere, the EU is fully invested in hurting the UK in any way it can, apparently with the blessing of a lot of posters on here.

The EU doesn't need to try and hurt us, Brexit was an act of self harm the UK voted to impose sanctions on itself.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

The EU doesn't need to try and hurt us, Brexit was an act of self harm the UK voted to impose sanctions on itself.

You say that, and yet here they are demonstrably changing legislation specifically to damage the UK economy.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

28 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Nobody can join EFTA without the EU approving it. As Creative Midfielder demonstrated with a post earlier elsewhere, the EU is fully invested in hurting the UK in any way it can, apparently with the blessing of a lot of posters on here.

😂😂 You just can't help yourself, can you 😂😂

[A Load of Squit 5,130]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You say that, and yet here they are demonstrably changing legislation specifically to damage the UK economy.

We voted to damage our economy, they are passing laws to protect theirs. They're not as stupid as you are.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You say that, and yet here they are demonstrably changing legislation specifically to damage the UK economy.

No, they aren't.

You said yourself you didn't actually read my post which I assume means you didn't look at the link either.

If you had read it you would have seen that the EU are acting defensively as they regard several large UK financial institutional as a systemic risk to financial stability - a view that especially in the light of the recently announced Hunt\Sunak City of London 'reforms' (aka as removing the protections to prevent a rerun of the  2007/8 crash)  is one that many in the UK financial sector fully agree with.

The UK is engaged in a race to the bottom and the EU doesn't want to play along. Any collateral damage to the UK is entirely self-inflicted.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

11 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

We voted to damage our economy, they are passing laws to protect theirs. They're not as stupid as you are.

Rubbish. They're changing laws targeting the UK. Equivalence with Japan and the US is far more extensive than we have when we actively sought agreement on this constructively starting from a position of harmonised markets.

But you know what? I'm here in a bar in France with a mixed group of English and French and having a good time, so if it makes you happy to cheerlead your own mugging, then have fun.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

26 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

We voted to damage our economy, they are passing laws to protect theirs. They're not as stupid as you are.

Yes, but Brexit was also a vote to stop being subject to EU laws. Sadly it seems Brexiters didn’t realise that also meant losing any influence over new EU laws and regulations. But this is hardly the first failure to understand the consequences of “regaining sovereignty”, as the “it cuts both ways” case of border controls demonstrates.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

54 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, but Brexit was also a vote to stop being subject to EU laws. Sadly it seems Brexiters didn’t realise that also meant losing any influence over new EU laws and regulations. But this is hardly the first failure to understand the consequences of “regaining sovereignty”, as the “it cuts both ways” case of border controls demonstrates.

It's actually hilarious the way you talk about it like it doesn't affect you. This thread is comedy gold in so many ways when you think about it.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

France win. Party time here, at any rate. Mind you, I'm sure you'll all be partying as well. Drinks on the house here.Cheers! 😂🍻