That was as poor as Max has been

[Rhino1 292]

Max has been superbly consistent for us, but tonight he had a stinker ( he was more than due one, given he’s been outstanding) poor defending, poor going forward. Everything he tried went pear shaped, poor passing, poor crossing and dreadful defending for their goal. He even got in the way of Pukki near the end. I don’t doubt he is an excellent player, but tonight was most certainly not his night. Slow all too often in the build up, hopefully he is not pre occupied by a certain transfer window looming?

[Mark .Y. 351]

Nah, just had a bad day (and by his standards, it was bad)........................we're all entitled to it now and again

[canarydan23 4,060]

15 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

Nah, just had a bad day (and by his standards, it was bad)........................we're all entitled to it now and again

Exactly this. He was dreadful tonight, but even the Messis of this world have bad games. He's allowed them. 

[Jerrykerry 223]

What a pathetic thread to start and what a complete load of t*ss. 

He wasn't great but to attack him like this, when he was up against a strong winger and two banks of four, is mental. 

Get a grip. It's pathetic. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Jerrykerry

[lake district canary 4,530]

Oh please. He was not dreadful.  For the goal he was left with no help after Dowell decided not to do anything - I actually shouted at Dowell even before the cross for the goal, such was his attitude in ambling around three yards from the player leaving Aarons to deal with a one on one.  Max worked as hard as always, but you have to give credit to Watford, big powerful side and very well organised. Max maybe not at his best, but he was nit "dreadful". 

[Branston Pickle 3,631]

Max has been excellent on the whole this season and is entitled to the odd off-day. The conditions (and physicality of Watford) didn’t help us at all.  IMO Sorensen - who has been  better than anyone could have hoped, so it’s far from a slight - was a bit ‘found out’, perhaps he’s due a rest (or a spell in midfield).

[Rhino1 292]

4 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

What a pathetic thread to start and what a complete load of t*ss. 

He wasn't great but to attack him like this, when he was up against a strong winger and two banks of four, is mental. 

Get a grip. It's pathetic. 

Where’s the attacking you cretin, everything that was said was said against the balance of him being outstanding for us!! It was a genuine concern that the window maybe distracting, or a question of whether it was just an off night - you s - - t for brains!! 

[Deptford Yellow 258]

43 minutes ago, Rhino1 said:

Max has been superbly consistent for us, but tonight he had a stinker ( he was more than due one, given he’s been outstanding) poor defending, poor going forward. Everything he tried went pear shaped, poor passing, poor crossing and dreadful defending for their goal. He even got in the way of Pukki near the end. I don’t doubt he is an excellent player, but tonight was most certainly not his night. Slow all too often in the build up, hopefully he is not pre occupied by a certain transfer window looming?

I have to say - the same thought crossed my mind ...

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Thought Max was ok although he’s cutting back inside too much and backed off for the goal.

zimmerman was appalling including not going for the through ball for the goal which he could have got to but inexplicably stopped and ran away from it. 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Oh please. He was not dreadful.  For the goal he was left with no help after Dowell decided not to do anything - I actually shouted at Dowell even before the cross for the goal, such was his attitude in ambling around three yards from the player leaving Aarons to deal with a one on one.  Max worked as hard as always, but you have to give credit to Watford, big powerful side and very well organised. Max maybe not at his best, but he was nit "dreadful". 

Agree 100% with you on this one, Lakey.

[Surfer 1,547]

Can we not criticize McGovern for his role In the goal? He should have blocked that cross.

(Add in at least a couple of very dodgy passes to defenders and / or straight out of play) 

If Krul plays we would not have lost that IMO

Edited December 27, 2020 by Surfer

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

EVERYONE was poor today. There is no way you can single out one player.

The front four contributed nothing. Zimmerman was lucky not to give away a second goal after that horrendous pass. McGovern should have made an attempt to cut out the cross leading to the goal, with Sorensen staying goal side of Sarr. Our midfield found themselves overwhelmed by Capoue and the subs did nothing to change the game

Bad days happen, lets see how they respond when we play QPR. 

 

 

[Jools 584]

3 hours ago, Rhino1 said:

Max has been superbly consistent for us, but tonight he had a stinker ( he was more than due one, given he’s been outstanding) poor defending, poor going forward. Everything he tried went pear shaped, poor passing, poor crossing and dreadful defending for their goal. He even got in the way of Pukki near the end. I don’t doubt he is an excellent player, but tonight was most certainly not his night. Slow all too often in the build up, hopefully he is not pre occupied by a certain transfer window looming?

Max will likely put in a Cafu like performance against QPR...

Shut your pie-hole 😉

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

What disappointed me most about the goal was that Hanley had tracked back and done really well to nullify the danger from the initial counter attack, Dowell then failed to close down the next runner, Aarons failed to prevent the cross, McGovern failed to be assertive and come for it and Sorenson failed to attack the ball and be aware of Sarr off his shoulder. Hanley’s good work was undone by a series of errors.

[shefcanary 2,377]

I thought in close ups on Max he looked a bit pasty faced.  Whether he over indulged Xmas Day or he is coming down with a bug he didn't look well. 

Actually he has a new girlfriend doesn't he?  Probably broke the oldest law in the professional game - never have sex on the night before a big match, save your energy for what matters!  Let that be a lesson to you Max.

[canarydan23 4,060]

10 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Oh please. He was not dreadful.  For the goal he was left with no help after Dowell decided not to do anything - I actually shouted at Dowell even before the cross for the goal, such was his attitude in ambling around three yards from the player leaving Aarons to deal with a one on one.  Max worked as hard as always, but you have to give credit to Watford, big powerful side and very well organised. Max maybe not at his best, but he was nit "dreadful". 

And how did the attack start, Lakey? 

I'll give you a clue, it came from a dreadful pass from someone with a number 2 on his shirt. Said person the "ambled" back whilst the attack advanced. 

Not sure why you're so utterly desperate to pin this one on an attacking midfielder being a little weak in defence. In the blame game there were three people more culpable. Is Dowell going to be your new Snodgrass? 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

And how did the attack start, Lakey? 

I'll give you a clue, it came from a dreadful pass from someone with a number 2 on his shirt. Said person the "ambled" back whilst the attack advanced. 

Not sure why you're so utterly desperate to pin this one on an attacking midfielder being a little weak in defence. In the blame game there were three people more culpable. Is Dowell going to be your new Snodgrass? 

I thought Zimmerman could have picked up the original punt up the field but backed off as he knows he has no pace, then Max backed off badly when he should have tackled the guy 40 yards from goal, then MM should have dived in the cross and cut it out, then Sorensen got caught the wrong side of his man. It was a defensive horror show all round. 

[lake district canary 4,530]

42 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

And how did the attack start, Lakey? 

I'll give you a clue, it came from a dreadful pass from someone with a number 2 on his shirt. Said person the "ambled" back whilst the attack advanced. 

Not sure why you're so utterly desperate to pin this one on an attacking midfielder being a little weak in defence. In the blame game there were three people more culpable. Is Dowell going to be your new Snodgrass? 

If Max "ambled" back, how was it possible that he suddenly appeared in the right place to defend their winger?  He can't be in two places at once and couldn't defend the initial break, but our system allows for when full backs get forwards that someone drops back to cover for them - and he got back to be in position pretty well.  Yes, it was a quick break by Watford, but it was still defendable and we didn't do that. I don't blame Dowell completely, but there is no doubt he was part of the overall poor defending that allowed that goal. 

[hogesar 9,606]

12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Oh please. He was not dreadful.  For the goal he was left with no help after Dowell decided not to do anything - I actually shouted at Dowell even before the cross for the goal, such was his attitude in ambling around three yards from the player leaving Aarons to deal with a one on one.  Max worked as hard as always, but you have to give credit to Watford, big powerful side and very well organised. Max maybe not at his best, but he was nit "dreadful". 

Yeah hard to disagree with this. 

Max has also never really been good at stopping crosses coming in, its probably his biggest weakness 

[canarydan23 4,060]

45 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

If Max "ambled" back, how was it possible that he suddenly appeared in the right place to defend their winger?  He can't be in two places at once and couldn't defend the initial break, but our system allows for when full backs get forwards that someone drops back to cover for them - and he got back to be in position pretty well.  Yes, it was a quick break by Watford, but it was still defendable and we didn't do that. I don't blame Dowell completely, but there is no doubt he was part of the overall poor defending that allowed that goal. 

There's no "if" about it. It was a game in front of televised cameras. You can see "if" he did or not. He got back jogging because the centre halves held up the play long enough. 

I hate if when players lose possession and don't bust a lung to rectify the error. Pukki is an absolute hero at this and did it last night in the second half. His loose play lost the ball and he sprinted back to the right back position to try and make good. He does it regularly. Had Aarons adopted the same attitude when his poor pass cost us possession, Dowell would never have been in a position to incur your irrational ire. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,913]

15 hours ago, Jerrykerry said:

What a pathetic thread to start and what a complete load of t*ss. 

He wasn't great but to attack him like this, when he was up against a strong winger and two banks of four, is mental. 

Get a grip. It's pathetic. 

You tell them Jerry.

[Midlands Yellow 3,913]

15 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Oh please. He was not dreadful.  For the goal he was left with no help after Dowell decided not to do anything - I actually shouted at Dowell even before the cross for the goal, such was his attitude in ambling around three yards from the player leaving Aarons to deal with a one on one.  Max worked as hard as always, but you have to give credit to Watford, big powerful side and very well organised. Max maybe not at his best, but he was nit "dreadful". 

Dowell didn’t hear you Lakey. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Got a bit out of hand hasn't it. 

If anyone thinks Max had a good game then I don't know what game they were watching.

Its not a criticism just a fact. Emi had a poor 2nd half. McGovern could have maybe cut the cross out. Dowell was not at the races and Zimmermann is slow and should be replaced by Gibson.

Those are just facts about yesterday. But we are just discussing about our team that is top on merit so we move on and its a fresh start next game.

[Canary Jedi 573]

12 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

You tell them Jerry.

It’s worthy of discussion, otherwise let’s just shut down this forum! Pathetic is harsh, it’s a point to be answered. 
 

Aarons is 20 and will continue to improve. He is a spectacular success and beyond anyone’s expectations. He was just average yesterday - certainly not bad. Everyone made one or two mistakes. I think even Jerry can see this and I’m sure Aarons will feel down. However it’s a coaching opportunity, and I’m sure he’ll come back stronger on Tuesday night!

[sgncfc 1,221]

The team didn't really turn up as a whole. Watford were a physical unit and they played to nullify us and nick a goal, which they did, and in all honesty they should have scored more. We weren't really at it at any point and didn't create one clear chance, despite the "16 shots". It's hard to single out players who played poorly when so many did - easier to say that Hanley and Skipp played well (7), Maclean was OK (6) and all the rest were 4s or 5s.

We needed some pace to break them down and didn't have it. 

Watford will be in the autos at the end of the season if they can keep all their players fit. Very strong team for this league. The other place is between us, Bournemouth , Brentford and Swansea.

[Mason 47 1,371]

Max has looked shattered  since around the Cov game, which is fair IMO- he is 20 and seemingly made of steel but he's one of only two players that have played every minute so far. The late challenge against Cov that almost got him injured came down to tiredness, he looked notably a level slower than an average Champ winger in Kadeem Harris for Sheff W , and he generally doesn't look on the same level at the moment- all tiredness for me. Watford are all pace and power so it's no surprise he looked  to struggle.

At this point I might genuinely consider Sorenson at RB and Quintilla back in on the other side for QPR, Barnsley and the cup game to give him a chance to rest and restore. May as well pop Tettey in the Skipp role too, before he gets jaded too. They're young, not invincible.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Mason 47

[C.I.D 302]

He really should have been shipped out on loan to Barcelona earlier in the season then we would have been spared the embarassment of that vital,brilliant late winner against the Wendys a few weeks ago 😜

[Rhino1 292]

6 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Max has looked shattered  since around the Cov game, which is fair IMO- he is 20 and seemingly made of steel but he's one of only two players that have played every minute so far. The late challenge against Cov that almost got him injured came down to tiredness, he looked notably a level slower than an average Champ winger in Kadeem Harris for Sheff W , and he generally doesn't look on the same level at the moment- all tiredness for me. Watford are all pace and power so it's no surprise he looked  to struggle.

At this point I might genuinely consider Sorenson at RB and Quintilla back in on the other side for QPR, Barnsley and the cup game to give him a chance to rest and restore. May as well pop Tettey in the Skipp role too, before he gets jaded too. They're young, not invincible.

Top post and very sensible position, I agree Max is a superstar and will play for one of the top teams, but you are right he looks knackered and could do with a break. Also very good shout with Sorensen at right back, accept I think he is also showing signs of weariness, hardly surprising for either of these two very young man. I like when people build rather than black and white destroy somebody’s observation. We all have different opinions and perspectives, a lack of intelligence of some leads to diagrammatically opposing rather than building or arguing the case logically. 

[Well b back 3,175]

16 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

And how did the attack start, Lakey? 

I'll give you a clue, it came from a dreadful pass from someone with a number 2 on his shirt. Said person the "ambled" back whilst the attack advanced. 

Not sure why you're so utterly desperate to pin this one on an attacking midfielder being a little weak in defence. In the blame game there were three people more culpable. Is Dowell going to be your new Snodgrass? 

Yep because his name is not spelt Vrancic he will slate Dowell.
He thinks Gibson is tosh as well because he thinks Zimmerman should be playing.

[lake district canary 4,530]

8 hours ago, Well b back said:

Yep because his name is not spelt Vrancic he will slate Dowell.
He thinks Gibson is tosh as well because he thinks Zimmerman should be playing.

B*ll*cks. I rate both Dowell and Gibson, but picking on Aarons has been one of the more stupid things I have seen on this forum. He works tirelessly getting up and down the pitch and as I said earlier, the way we play is designed to make sure there is cover if either full back gets caught out further up the pitch. Anyhow, he got back in time to defend, but was not helped by Dowell who did not pressure the ball at all, leaving Max to try and deal with it. If it had been Buendia in that position, he would have fought to get the ball back, Dowell just stood off, meaning the attacker hads a free run at Aarons. 

The whole goal was a collection of indecisiveness. Arrons giving the ball away, Dowell standing off the attacking player, McGovern not cutting out the cross, Sorensen not getting right side of his player. Just a poor goal all round.