Christoph's decision

[ron obvious 1,501]

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/christoph-zimmermann-norwich-city-taking-the-knee-6861192

[Crabbycanary3 994]

I agree with how he is going about this

[cambridgeshire canary 6,676]

Neither does Vrancic. As it happens I remember reading about a French footballer (who is black) who has also refused to take the knee.

 

He stated that he does not do so as while he understands the cause and meaning he is French, and France is almost 5000 miles away from America, and while France has it's own problems France is not America and he does not feel he should kneel for another country and it's issues that are so far away and so far removed from his own issues.

 

Of course I doubt that will happen here in the UK.. Now I'm not saying the UK is Americas lapdop or that America has it's collar around our neck but let's be honest if America tells us to jump

 

We tend to jump without question

Edited December 21, 2020 by cambridgeshire canary

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

Might have been worth Southwell getting a quote before writing this ? Zimm might have other motives ? He might not ? Be much more interested in what he has to say , which may include saying nothing . 
This piece just highlights what Zimm is (privately) doing . 
Cue the club having to make a statement once the nationals get hold of this . 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

I thoght this was going to be an NCFC version of Sophie's Choice.

" £30 million bids come in for two players, both crucial to the team. Which one does Christophe sell, which one does he keep?"

 

 

More seriously, Paddy says in his piece "respecting others opinions is a quality that has escaped from the political discourse in this country". Amen brother.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I do wonder how many players are not bothered but don't want to look anti. It isn't a protest anymore. It only becomes a protest when the minority do it.

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Might have been worth Southwell getting a quote before writing this ? Zimm might have other motives ? He might not ? Be much more interested in what he has to say , which may include saying nothing . 
This piece just highlights what Zimm is (privately) doing . 
Cue the club having to make a statement once the nationals get hold of this . 

Likewise, expected to actually read something of substance with direct quotes from Zimbo rather than a generic opinion piece from a journo

Edited December 21, 2020 by kirku

[kirku 1,332]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

I do wonder how many players are not bothered but don't want to look anti. It isn't a protest anymore. It only becomes a protest when the minority do it.

A protest is not remotely defined by the proportion of participants 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

16 minutes ago, kirku said:

A protest is not remotely defined by the proportion of participants 

Says you

[lake district canary 4,531]

27 minutes ago, kirku said:

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Might have been worth Southwell getting a quote before writing this ? Zimm might have other motives ? He might not ? Be much more interested in what he has to say , which may include saying nothing . 
This piece just highlights what Zimm is (privately) doing . 
Cue the club having to make a statement once the nationals get hold of this . 

Likewise, expected to actually read something of substance with direct quotes from Zimbo rather than a generic opinion piece from a journo

Connor has it right. Zimbo is standing respectfully while others do what they want to do. No questions need be asked, no statements made. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

36 minutes ago, kirku said:

Likewise, expected to actually read something of substance with direct quotes from Zimbo rather than a generic opinion piece from a journo

 

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Might have been worth Southwell getting a quote before writing this ? Zimm might have other motives ? He might not ? Be much more interested in what he has to say , which may include saying nothing . 
This piece just highlights what Zimm is (privately) doing . 
Cue the club having to make a statement once the nationals get hold of this . 

He did comment on Twitter that he would not have made the article if he didn't know the actual meaning. So it is not an assumptive piece in that respect - I think he has just left it up to Zimmerman to share the reasoning if asked or in his own time. 

[Indy 3,283]

I fully agree with the gist of this article, it has moved the true focus of Kick It Out campaign which is fully focused on Racism full stop and just focused on Black Lives. For me it’s despicable what has happened in the black communities in the UK, America & the rest of the world, but we must not lose focus on other sections of racism.

I want to see a change back to kick it out again with us uniting behind all forms of racism issue, let’s get rid of it all once and for all.

[Bill 1,788]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

More seriously, Paddy says in his piece "respecting others opinions is a quality that has escaped from the political discourse in this country". Amen brother.

when it is deserved and when it is an opinion based on reasoned thought

not just bleating out vacuous slogans and lies

and for the record I do not respect the opinions of Farage, Trump, Icke, Patel.......

 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

21 minutes ago, Bill said:

when it is deserved and when it is an opinion based on reasoned thought

not just bleating out vacuous slogans and lies

and for the record I do not respect the opinions of Farage, Trump, Icke, Patel.......

 

Absolutely, to get respect you have to earn respect, but the state of political discourse these days is dire. If we all started from a place where we recognise people can hold different opinions to ourselves but still deserve a hearing, maybe we could find common ground. But the binary, “oh no it isn’t, oh yes it is” stuff just leads to shouting and division.

[Ken Hairy 3,760]

As long as he doesn't stand there booing those who choose to kneel, then it's no sods business why he doesn't. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Says you

So when hundreds of thousands of people march against nuclear weapons, or against the Iraq war, or against leaving the E.U or whatever particular cause, it isn't a protest because there's an awful lot of people doing it?????????????????

[Deptford Yellow 258]

5 hours ago, ron obvious said:

https://www.pinkun.com/sport/norwich-city/christoph-zimmermann-norwich-city-taking-the-knee-6861192

There does come a point when the protest becomes corporate and devoid of real meaning - I had thought we might be reaching that point until that very ugly booing from the Millwall fans made me think again and it seemed very relevant and meaningful once more ... Who knows what Zimbo thinks but for sure taking the knee has no meaning whatsoever if done as felt to be an obligation rather than genuinely personally felt .. the same thing applies with regards to the pre-sown in remembrance poppies in my opinion ...

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Absolutely, to get respect you have to earn respect, but the state of political discourse these days is dire. If we all started from a place where we recognise people can hold different opinions to ourselves but still deserve a hearing, maybe we could find common ground. But the binary, “oh no it isn’t, oh yes it is” stuff just leads to shouting and division.

Oh No it doesn't.  

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

Massive respect to him for abstaining in this manner. The amount of pressure to toe the line over the Black Lives Mattermust be immense. 

I'm not a massive fan of Black Lives Matter. Too much of it is anti-capitalism dressed up as anti-racism. That's not to say I either love or detest capitalism, but racism is something that should be considered independently of other political questions, and Black Lives Matter falls well short on that score and definitely shouldn't be being embraced by sporting bodies in such a simpering fashion. In addition, race issues vary from country to country, yet we're literally following the US on this:

a country where black people are literally being hung from lampposts this year and the perpetrators getting away Scot free. It's not glossing over our own problems to take exception to exclusively American problems driving our own domestic agendas. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by littleyellowbirdie

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

So when hundreds of thousands of people march against nuclear weapons, or against the Iraq war, or against leaving the E.U or whatever particular cause, it isn't a protest because there's an awful lot of people doing it?????????????????

I said minority, and didn't mention numbers.

Your example is at best 1.5% of our population.

If 40 million out of 70 million disagree with something, then that something alters. Like the Poll Tax for example.

The well intentioned Iraq War protests were indeed a minority. Most believed Blair.

Leave won the Referendum and many thousands protested afterwards but the majority of Remainers accepted the vote.

In a nation of 300 million its only thousands protesting the election was stolen.

[kirku 1,332]

14 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Says you

I don't define the meaning of words, unfortunately

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

14 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Says you

The quality of your counter arguement is deserving of a place in the highest courts in the land.

🤦‍♂️

[kirku 1,332]

2 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

The quality of your counter arguement is deserving of a place in the highest courts in the land.

🤦‍♂️

To be fair, he's probably taken his lead from Suella Braverman..

[kirku 1,332]

10 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I said minority, and didn't mention numbers.

If 40 million out of 70 million disagree with something, then that something alters. Like the Poll Tax for example.

Obviously, there can't have been protests against the Poll Tax because you've stated that the majority opposed it

How confusing..

 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

10 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Massive respect to him for abstaining in this manner. The amount of pressure to toe the line over the Black Lives Mattermust be immense. 

I'm not a massive fan of Black Lives Matter. Too much of it is anti-capitalism dressed up as anti-racism. That's not to say I either love or detest capitalism, but racism is something that should be considered independently of other political questions, and Black Lives Matter falls well short on that score and definitely shouldn't be being embraced by sporting bodies in such a simpering fashion. In addition, race issues vary from country to country, yet we're literally following the US on this:

a country where black people are literally being hung from lampposts this year and the perpetrators getting away Scot free. It's not glossing over our own problems to take exception to exclusively American problems driving our own domestic agendas. 

It's an utter nonsense to think -

1. People take the knee to represent the Black Lives Matter political group.

It's very obviously a gesture against racism.

2. Race issues vary from country to country.

It's the same underlying issues no matter how those issues ultimately find expression. The only way to resolve them is a united front worldwide to make these idiots realise that racism is not welcome anywhere, in any culture at any time.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Terminally Yellow

[Pugin 601]

Seeing the world from inside a black skin. 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=muhammed ali on race&pc=cosp&ptag=G6C17N1234D010615A316A5D3C6E&form=CONBDF&conlogo=CT3210127

The quotes with Parkinson are by far the most significant.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Pugin
error

[hogesar 9,618]

Have to respect him for doing so. I wonder if there's ever any dialogue during a game where he's having to explain to opponents why he didn't kneel? 

[king canary 7,580]

If I was a footballer I'd personally be taking the knee but I entirely respect Zimmerman's right not to.

However, with this article and quite a lot of discussion on social media it is becoming a bit of a lightning rod and I think it would help if he actually came out and said why he's choosing not too.

Finally, while people need to respect his decision it doesn't mean it is above criticism or that people aren't entitled to change their views on him based on what he says and does. 

[Naturalcynic 629]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

If I was a footballer I'd personally be taking the knee but I entirely respect Zimmerman's right not to.

However, with this article and quite a lot of discussion on social media it is becoming a bit of a lightning rod and I think it would help if he actually came out and said why he's choosing not too.

Finally, while people need to respect his decision it doesn't mean it is above criticism or that people aren't entitled to change their views on him based on what he says and does. 

You respect his right not to, but you think he should explain exactly why he doesn’t so that he can then be criticised and ostracised accordingly?  I’ve had enough of the woke chattering classes acting as judge, jury and executioner, thanks very much.

[king canary 7,580]

Just now, Naturalcynic said:

You respect his right not to, but you think he should explain exactly why he doesn’t so that he can then be criticised and ostracised accordingly?  I’ve had enough of the woke chattering classes acting as judge, jury and executioner, thanks very much.

I dont think I ever said he should be ostracised did I? It certainly shouldn't affect whether he's playing week in week out and if I was in the stadium I'd give him my full support for 90 minutes.

However, personally, if he comes out and says some nonsense along the lines of 'BLM are all marxists' then I'll certainly respect him less, as is my perogative. Equally I imagine it may make some supporter groups think twice about using Zimbo for events or as an ambassador which is also their right.