Ben Godfrey - Cough..............

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Must admit he did give the ball away that led to the penalty.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

21 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yep this is so true, Godfrey was good for us last season, but he's clearly much improved with a solid foundation around him rather than a team that's low of quality / fit and available players / confidence.

Considering Buendia has been an outstanding attacking player since joining us - even last season despite how ****e we were - can you imagine how good he'd be with quality players around him in a team which dominates possession?

His recent performances this season have been magical for us. He appears to have shaken the 'but he doesn't score enough goals' criticism off his back too. That Cardiff goal on Sat was a prime example, two seasons ago he'd have tried to thread Pukki through for an assist - this season he's got much more of a selfish edge for wanting to score - I'm a big fan!

And some posters don't think he's even in the same league as Maddison 😢 Criminal!

Agree with all of your post Hank up until the last line.

He's literally not in the same league as Maddison at the moment of course.

And he's not in the same league as a player - yet - but if he carries on improving hopefully he will be. (although Emi has a long, long way to go to be in the same league as Maddison at the dead ball stuff). 

[king canary 7,580]

31 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yep this is so true, Godfrey was good for us last season, but he's clearly much improved with a solid foundation around him rather than a team that's low of quality / fit and available players / confidence.

Considering Buendia has been an outstanding attacking player since joining us - even last season despite how ****e we were - can you imagine how good he'd be with quality players around him in a team which dominates possession?

His recent performances this season have been magical for us. He appears to have shaken the 'but he doesn't score enough goals' criticism off his back too. That Cardiff goal on Sat was a prime example, two seasons ago he'd have tried to thread Pukki through for an assist - this season he's got much more of a selfish edge for wanting to score - I'm a big fan!

And some posters don't think he's even in the same league as Maddison 😢 Criminal!

Yeah this was the point I think lots of people missed when Godfrey/Lewis/Aarons were linked with moves despite our defence not being good last season- you surround a player like Godfrey with a solid defensive midfield and don't leave him permanently exposed then his better qualities can shine through. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,738]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

@GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary knows far more about it than Carlo Ancelloti.

But at least we can expect £25m bids for our "better" CBs.

Are you saying our defence isnt better?...theres fairly clear evidence that it is

Give me proper 'defenders' in Gibson and Hanley ahead of 'athletes' any day....

Edited December 21, 2020 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Nuff Said 5,092]

23 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Agree with all of your post Hank up until the last line.

He's literally not in the same league as Maddison at the moment of course.

And he's not in the same league as a player - yet - but if he carries on improving hopefully he will be. (although Emi has a long, long way to go to be in the same league as Maddison at the dead ball stuff). 

I love Emi, especially that he genuinely seems happy to be here and isn't affected by all the transfer rumours, but pretty much every time he takes a corner or free kick I end up thinking - don't we have anyone else who could do it instead? I think that's the biggest thing we're missing while Quintilla is out.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

37 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Agree with all of your post Hank up until the last line.

He's literally not in the same league as Maddison at the moment of course.

And he's not in the same league as a player - yet - but if he carries on improving hopefully he will be. (although Emi has a long, long way to go to be in the same league as Maddison at the dead ball stuff). 

Yep of course not literally!

As I said, I think we are yet to see the best of Buendia in the prem, and if he were at a similar club I have no doubts that he'd be churning out roughly similar goal contributions as Maddison (albeit a few less goals and a few more assists IMO).

We have seen the improvement in Godfrey moving to a bigger team already, if you were to apply a similar level of improvement to Buendia to account for the players around him then all of the sudden he's right up there IMO.

That said, whilst I would agree that Maddison is the more rounded / complete player based on what we have seen so far, I think there is not a big difference any more. Particularly as I said this season where Buendia is now much more of a goal threat. He still probably needs to tie up his decision making in defensive areas sometimes (both in and out of possession) mind. And the dead ball stuff which he certainly is leagues away from Maddison in...

Simply put do you think if we had Maddison in instead of Buendia then his stats so far this season would be much better? Maybe a bit, but 'another league'? I'm not convinced...

Perhaps that is with my current NCFC specs on and a tendency to prefer our current players, but Buendia is an absolute joy to watch at the moment!

Edited December 21, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

9 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yep of course not literally!

As I said, I think we are yet to see the best of Buendia in the prem, and if he were at a similar club I have no doubts that he'd be churning out roughly similar goal contributions as Maddison (albeit a few less goals and a few more assists IMO).

We have seen the improvement in Godfrey moving to a bigger team already, if you were to apply a similar level of improvement to Buendia to account for the players around him then all of the sudden he's right up there IMO.

That said, whilst I would agree that Maddison is the more rounded / complete player based on what we have seen so far, I think there is not a big difference any more. Particularly as I said this season where Buendia is now much more of a goal threat. He still probably needs to tie up his decision making in defensive areas sometimes (both in and out of possession) mind.

Do you think if we had Maddison in instead of Buendia then his stats so far this season would be much better? Maybe a bit, but 'another league'? I'm not convinced...

Perhaps that is with my current NCFC specs on and a tendency to prefer our current players, but Buendia is an absolute joy to watch at the moment!

As I say I rate Maddison more highly at the present time - but I totally agree with you that Buendia is an absolute joy to watch at the moment and that it's been fantastic to see him suddenly burst into goalscoring form again in the last few matches including with goals from outside the box which hadn't been a part of his game up to now. There also seem to have been some signs in recent games that Emi is managing his temperament better which is something he needed to improve. 

So, no, I wouldn't say Maddison is in a different league to Emi, but overall I think he's a better player at the present time.

As an aside, I was thinking that Emi was a couple of years younger than Maddison so had a bit of time to catch up as it were, but in fact Maddison is only 32 days older than Emi. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

17 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Are you saying our defence isnt better?...theres fairly clear evidence that it is

Give me proper 'defenders' in Gibson and Hanley ahead of 'athletes' any day....

Sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence that our defence is better this season. We are playing in the Championship for goodness sake. The difference in class between the Premier League and the Championship is enormous. The player who has replaced Godfrey couldn't get a game for Burnley and got no offers from any other Premier League clubs. He's done very well for us but I would expect him to bearing in mind the standard of the opposition. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

4 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

As I say I rate Maddison more highly at the present time - but I totally agree with you that Buendia is an absolute joy to watch at the moment and that it's been fantastic to see him suddenly burst into goalscoring form again in the last few matches including with goals from outside the box which hadn't been a part of his game up to now. There also seem to have been some signs in recent games that Emi is managing his temperament better which is something he needed to improve. 

So, no, I wouldn't say Maddison is in a different league to Emi, but overall I think he's a better player at the present time.

As an aside, I was thinking that Emi was a couple of years younger than Maddison so had a bit of time to catch up as it were, but in fact Maddison is only 32 days older than Emi. 

Sounds like we are on the same page then TL, I'd agree with that.

32 days of practising corners then... 😄 

[BigFish 1,986]

31 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Are you saying our defence isnt better?...theres fairly clear evidence that it is

Give me proper 'defenders' in Gibson and Hanley ahead of 'athletes' any day....

As a team we defend better now, that doesn't mean that our defence is necessarily better or that you have "fairly clear evidence". What is clear is that those who should know, e.g. those in the game, think Godfrey is a better player than the two CBs you mention who couldn't get games at Burnley and Newcastle.

[king canary 7,580]

18 minutes ago, BigFish said:

As a team we defend better now, that doesn't mean that our defence is necessarily better or that you have "fairly clear evidence". What is clear is that those who should know, e.g. those in the game, think Godfrey is a better player than the two CBs you mention who couldn't get games at Burnley and Newcastle.

Exactly!

We're seeing the benefits this season of having proper holding midfielders (sorry Tettey, you're still a legend) and some more mature play from our fullbacks. 

We're a more solid unit our attacking players are still good enough to score goals without the team committing 8 players forward for each attack. The balance is better but the individual defenders probably aren't. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,738]

47 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Sorry, but there is absolutely no evidence that our defence is better this season. We are playing in the Championship for goodness sake. The difference in class between the Premier League and the Championship is enormous. The player who has replaced Godfrey couldn't get a game for Burnley and got no offers from any other Premier League clubs. He's done very well for us but I would expect him to bearing in mind the standard of the opposition. 

I'm mainly comparing our defence to that of 2 seasons ago...

[king canary 7,580]

3 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I'm mainly comparing our defence to that of 2 seasons ago...

I'd still argue the tactical switches we've made and improvements in defensive midfield are the reason for our more solid defence, not that our individual defenders are better.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,738]

Well I'd argue that Gibson and Hanley are more natural , instinctive defenders than Godfrey who want to defend and are positionally more adept and dont rely on pace to get them out of trouble.

We let 55 goals in two seasons ago ...let alone what happened last season...and there was a common demoinator.

In pure defending terms, Gibson/Hanley are defensively more solid.

[king canary 7,580]

16 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Well I'd argue that Gibson and Hanley are more natural , instinctive defenders than Godfrey who want to defend and are positionally more adept and dont rely on pace to get them out of trouble.

We let 55 goals in two seasons ago ...let alone what happened last season...and there was a common demoinator.

In pure defending terms, Gibson/Hanley are defensively more solid.

And yet a defence featuring Godfrey is the basis of a team currently sitting 4th in the Premier League.

That suggests maybe he wasn't the common denominator? Godfrey didn't even start that first Championship season until December! You could just as much argue Lewis or Tettey were the cause.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

19 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Well I'd argue that Gibson and Hanley are more natural , instinctive defenders than Godfrey who want to defend and are positionally more adept and dont rely on pace to get them out of trouble.

We let 55 goals in two seasons ago ...let alone what happened last season...and there was a common demoinator.

In pure defending terms, Gibson/Hanley are defensively more solid.

I find it hard to believe that anyone disagrees with this. Ben has many admirable aspects to his play that combined with his nationality and age make his potential far greater than Gibson or Hanley. But in terms of stopping the opposition scoring once they are past the midfield, both our current centre backs are more effective.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

38 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Well I'd argue that Gibson and Hanley are more natural , instinctive defenders than Godfrey who want to defend and are positionally more adept and dont rely on pace to get them out of trouble.

We let 55 goals in two seasons ago ...let alone what happened last season...and there was a common demoinator.

In pure defending terms, Gibson/Hanley are defensively more solid.

You're right about the common denominator in defence in the last two seasons - his name is Tim Krul 😠

His name is also Max Aarons - 😠

His name is also Jamal Lewis - 😠

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

We are letting in fewer goals this season in the Championship than two seasons ago.

We are also scoring fewer goals this season in the Championship than two seasons ago.

This is NOT  a coincidence and the reasons why are glaringly obvious. 

[BigFish 1,986]

5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I find it hard to believe that anyone disagrees with this. Ben has many admirable aspects to his play that combined with his nationality and age make his potential far greater than Gibson or Hanley. But in terms of stopping the opposition scoring once they are past the midfield, both our current centre backs are more effective.

This is a generational thing, for the older generation old fashioned stoppers are what they expect, playing in teams that can only play in straight lines and it is a mystery why they have died out in top level football. Godfrey's potential is not just greater than the two in question, he is by any objective measure a much better player. He is playing for a manager that has won titles in five countries and the Champions League 3 times. Gibson played one (ONE) game for a poor Burnley side and Hanley was shipped out after only 10 games at newly promoted Newcastle. I like both, they are suited to the Champs where most teams are only after a battle. That said I would have preferred to be in a world where we could keep Godfrey. The team would be better, the defence would be better.

[king canary 7,580]

2 minutes ago, BigFish said:

This is a generational thing, for the older generation old fashioned stoppers are what they expect, playing in teams that can only play in straight lines and it is a mystery why they have died out in top level football. Godfrey's potential is not just greater than the two in question, he is by any objective measure a much better player. He is playing for a manager that has won titles in five countries and the Champions League 3 times. Gibson played one (ONE) game for a poor Burnley side and Hanley was shipped out after only 10 games at newly promoted Newcastle. I like both, they are suited to the Champs where most teams are only after a battle. That said I would have preferred to be in a world where we could keep Godfrey. The team would be better, the defence would be better.

I personally think we'd have been better defensively last season if we had Gibson next to Godfrey, as I think he's an improvement on Hanley and Zimmerman. 

If we do go up this season I think central defence is still our biggest area to improve.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

26 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

You're right about the common denominator in defence in the last two seasons - his name is Tim Krul 😠

His name is also Max Aarons - 😠

His name is also Jamal Lewis - 😠

Anyone watch Jamals last game he started for Newcastle? Dear god he was awful

[dylanisabaddog 4,876]

2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I'm mainly comparing our defence to that of 2 seasons ago...

Two and a half years ago Ben Godfrey had never played centre half! And in the same period the Championship has dropped in standard. You're comparing apples with pears. 

Against the current opposition Ben could play at centre half in a pair of slippers 

[ron obvious 1,501]

Please stop comparing our defence last season to anything. The injury situation was ridiculous.

Timm, Grant & Christoph were all crocked, even when they played. Ben was carrying a hernia for weeks as well.

No team can survive in the PL with one first choice CB (& an inexperienced one at that) & no backup.

It was a one-off situation that won't happen again.

Edited December 21, 2020 by ron obvious

[sgncfc 1,223]

I think playing Ben Godfrey at left back is a very interesting decision by Ancelotti and his coaching staff. There is no doubt that Ben Godfrey is a very fine footballer and will keep getting better. His main issue as a centre back was his positioning - sometimes his pace got him out of trouble, sometimes it didn't. No one can deny that he was caught out on several occasions by near post runners and by getting himself "lost" in the penalty area.

His recent reviews as a left back are positive, perhaps because he is being directed by experienced EPL centre backs who he will undoubtedly learn from, but he is still making some quite basic errors, particularly in distribution but also in not closing down crosses.

In terms of what we need at the moment for where we are, Gibson is unquestionably better for us. Next year , if we make it to the EPL, Gibson will still be a better centre back than Godfrey was for us last season, but quite possibly not as good as Godfrey will be next season.

Which is exactly why we got so much money for him.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

This is a generational thing, for the older generation old fashioned stoppers are what they expect, playing in teams that can only play in straight lines and it is a mystery why they have died out in top level football. Godfrey's potential is not just greater than the two in question, he is by any objective measure a much better player. He is playing for a manager that has won titles in five countries and the Champions League 3 times. Gibson played one (ONE) game for a poor Burnley side and Hanley was shipped out after only 10 games at newly promoted Newcastle. I like both, they are suited to the Champs where most teams are only after a battle. That said I would have preferred to be in a world where we could keep Godfrey. The team would be better, the defence would be better.

It's not a generational thing that we will concede fewer goals with Hanley and Gibson at the back than with Godfrey and whoever.

[BigFish 1,986]

Just now, Nuff Said said:

It's not a generational thing that we will concede fewer goals with Hanley and Gibson at the back than with Godfrey and whoever.

It is a generational thing that you can't understand why. (Clue: it is not because Hanley and Gibson are better players)

[Nuff Said 5,092]

4 minutes ago, BigFish said:

It is a generational thing that you can't understand why. (Clue: it is not because Hanley and Gibson are better players)

Let's just leave it in the spirit of the season shall we?