Dr Greenthumb 789 Posted December 16, 2020 19 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said: I think it depends on how well Byram and Mumba are doing in recovering from their injuries. If these two are going to be ready to step back in sometime during January/beginning of February I think McCallum may stay at Coventry for the rest of the season. Depends on how Byram reacts too. He has been out nearly a year! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,273 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, CDMullins said: I'd be uncomfortable bringing Sam back, It seems the obviously answer but he clearly wasn't faniced in the Summer so whats changed? Brandon Williams stands out head and shoulders from that list. We need a left back, we need that balance back. Were also getting to a point were Sorensen is looking that good, that hes actually wasted at LB. I've always thought that this buy-loan back arrangement was used as a sweetener for the deal. It was similar with Maddison who we signed but allowed Coventry to keep for the rest of that season. It doesn't tie in with his subsequent loan to Aberdeen though, and there's no real evidence of this. It does give the youngster time to adjust/plan etc. as well. Wasn't a reported £3.5m paid for McCallum. That's hefty. Somebody must rate him and it's also testimony to the club's recent success, scouting, considered risk-taking and good planning, that we are able to fork out such a sum for a player who is not to be instantly utilised. (Isn't it ITFC's transfer budget for the decade? 😁) Edited December 16, 2020 by BroadstairsR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grando 335 Posted December 16, 2020 Given what's at stake this season then I'd definitely recall McCallum. If he subsequently ends up without game time with us, at least we would have cover, unlike the ridiculous situation we're currently in. I'd probably say the same about Famewo too, given how quickly we get through centre backs, and also Sinani, if we have recall clauses for them both. Because if we get to February and have another massive injury crisis then it would be better to have more bodies available at Colney. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smooth 114 Posted December 16, 2020 21 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said: The problem is Norwich or more importantly Daniel do not think he is good enough to nail down the left back position just yet. I think that is it and if we go up we need senior or experience along with youth. So a few more additions of senior players will help our young players who have played in the prem and we are better prepared. We do not want to players to be earmarked as a weakness early if we go up with little experience. I think we are hoping Xavi comes back or we can loan another experienced player in that position. Let's hope in January we are in a position where we can be thinking of promotion and getting in a player or two to help ahead of the summer recruitment I think McCallum will be part of the first team squad, but to have him as starter next season if we go up may be too soon. But again let's see his development is still going very very well. Maybe he will be ready, but if anything farke and group are ready to understand what they need next season if we go up, after seeing last seasons performances etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thirsty Lizard 3,214 Posted December 16, 2020 3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said: I've always thought that this buy-loan back arrangement was used as a sweetener for the deal. It was similar with Maddison who we signed but allowed Coventry to keep for the rest of that season. It doesn't tie in with his subsequent loan to Aberdeen though, and there's no real evidence of this. It does give the youngster time to adjust/plan etc. as well. Wasn't a reported £3.5m paid for McCallum. That's hefty. Somebody must rate him and it's also testimony to the club's recent success, scouting, considered risk-taking and good planning, that we are able to fork out such a sum for a player who is not to be instantly utilised. (Isn't it ITFC's transfer budget for the decade? 😁) No - it wasn't. Webber has addressed this. The up front fee we paid for McCallum was in the region of £1.2 to £1.5 million. It would only rise to £3.5 million if a lot of things happened which triggered add on clauses - such as McCallum going on to play for England. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ged in the onion bag 959 Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, smooth said: I think that is it and if we go up we need senior or experience along with youth. So a few more additions of senior players will help our young players who have played in the prem and we are better prepared. We do not want to players to be earmarked as a weakness early if we go up with little experience. I think we are hoping Xavi comes back or we can loan another experienced player in that position. Let's hope in January we are in a position where we can be thinking of promotion and getting in a player or two to help ahead of the summer recruitment I think McCallum will be part of the first team squad, but to have him as starter next season if we go up may be too soon. But again let's see his development is still going very very well. Maybe he will be ready, but if anything farke and group are ready to understand what they need next season if we go up, after seeing last seasons performances etc. 23 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said: The problem is Norwich or more importantly Daniel do not think he is good enough to nail down the left back position just yet. Where is the evidence that DF thinks he's not good enough yet? When he was sent out on loan, yes, he hadn't played at this level before and yes, we had Quintilla here (+ poss Lewis?)..... since then he has probably played more games at this level than Sorensen and is doing well by all accounts.... its easier to do well in a successful team where he is less exposed and so he's likely to play better for us than Cov. Fact is, DF gives young players opportunity and confidence.... it enables them to excel and I would think Daniel is far more comfortable with Sam McCallum now than when he sent him out on loan.... this is also an opportunity for Sam to get used to our style of play...... 3 / 4 months ago, given the choice of McCallum or Sorensen as left-back, DF would have gone with Sam no doubt, its a funny ol' game. But given our paucity of EPL level central midfielders (I make it we have potentially Rupp and Sorensen as Skipp isn't ours and the rest have proved themselves not good enough) do you agree we need to get Sorensen in there asap to see if he can cut it and gain the necessary experience in that area before (and provided) we get promoted. That CDM position is our greatest concern as Rupp isn't big, strong and athletic, those qualities needed to control EPL football matches... As for the point about experience, tend to agree, although much of the squad has more experience than it had last time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 4,682 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) Signed him and sent him out on loan before having a long look at him throughout the summer and sent him back to Coventry again. To be not kept even as back up does clearly suggest Daniel and his team don’t think he’s up to it just yet. Edited December 16, 2020 by Midlands Yellow 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,358 Posted December 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said: Signed him and sent him out on loan before having a long look at him throughout the summer and sent him back to Coventry again. To be not kept even as back up does clearly suggest Daniel and his team don’t think he’s up to it just yet. There's also the recent quote about Farke telling him to work on his 1v1 defending and reading of the game while out on loan, certainly points towards the club thinking he could do with another season of development at this level Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ged in the onion bag 959 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said: Signed him and sent him out on loan before having a long look at him throughout the summer and sent him back to Coventry again. To be not kept even as back up does clearly suggest Daniel and his team don’t think he’s up to it just yet. Did you only read the first sentence of my post? We also had other players in front of him at the time! Edited December 16, 2020 by ged in the onion bag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 8,736 Posted December 16, 2020 1 minute ago, kirku said: There's also the recent quote about Farke telling him to work on his 1v1 defending and reading of the game while out on loan, certainly points towards the club thinking he could do with another season of development at this level I think the issue was Farke didn't see him as good enough to be the starter and didn't think he'd develop enough spending a season on the bench, rather than thinking he just wasn't good enough even to be backup. Obviously with hindsight he would have got a decent amount of game time with Quintilla being injured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pritch 3 Posted December 16, 2020 Spurs have a young left-back, Dennis Cirkin, who is rated just as highly as Skipp. Spurs and Norwich seem to have a good relationship so maybe one to look out for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 4,682 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said: Did you only read the first sentence of my post? We also had other players in front of him at the time! I’m sorry! Get your cane out. That said there is clear evidence he wasn’t even being kept here to challenge for the left back position. Edited December 16, 2020 by Midlands Yellow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ged in the onion bag 959 Posted December 16, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said: I’m sorry! Get your cane out. That said there is clear evidence he wasn’t even being kept here to challenge for the left back position. Some on here like to use the forum for debate, make comments, give opinions (ideally back them up) and ask questions... others on here make comments based on absolute assumption and regularly fail to back it up with any substance. You don't know that DF doesn't think he's able to do a job for us now, you could assume that he didn't think so when he sent Sam out on loan, but as I said, that was before he had played what is probably more games than Sorensen has now played. If you don't want to consider and respond to any (reasoned) comments in response to yours, then why bother posting on here in the first place! Edited December 16, 2020 by ged in the onion bag Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smooth 114 Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said: Where is the evidence that DF thinks he's not good enough yet? When he was sent out on loan, yes, he hadn't played at this level before and yes, we had Quintilla here (+ poss Lewis?)..... since then he has probably played more games at this level than Sorensen and is doing well by all accounts.... its easier to do well in a successful team where he is less exposed and so he's likely to play better for us than Cov. Fact is, DF gives young players opportunity and confidence.... it enables them to excel and I would think Daniel is far more comfortable with Sam McCallum now than when he sent him out on loan.... this is also an opportunity for Sam to get used to our style of play...... 3 / 4 months ago, given the choice of McCallum or Sorensen as left-back, DF would have gone with Sam no doubt, its a funny ol' game. But given our paucity of EPL level central midfielders (I make it we have potentially Rupp and Sorensen as Skipp isn't ours and the rest have proved themselves not good enough) do you agree we need to get Sorensen in there asap to see if he can cut it and gain the necessary experience in that area before (and provided) we get promoted. That CDM position is our greatest concern as Rupp isn't big, strong and athletic, those qualities needed to control EPL football matches... As for the point about experience, tend to agree, although much of the squad has more experience than it had last time. Ged, I 100% agree that Lungi in central midfield is a must and I agree that as you note that CDM position is so valuable in the prem that if this seasons goes as well as it does, we need to get that position right and I so hope we have learnt from last year on that one. So I would agree we need Skipp to get settled happy and if we think the conversation means he may be here next season great, we do need to try Lungi there, no question. He is looking like a very able player and in his natural position will shine this season and for more to come, of which I have no doubt. But it is a position we do need to look at if we are on track to go up. So I see the arguments for bringing McCallum back, but I think his development is going well at Coventry. He will be a better player for it and it seems that there has been noise recently in our media that this position is being looked at. I would be happy bringing someone in to fight with Xavi, if he comes back; or to add that experience in a starting position allowing Lungi to play more in the middle. I do think we need a senior play in that position as we get close to the run in after January so it will be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully our form continues now and we get more cohesion, players back and each one carries a bit more load. We have a na excellent chance of keeping momentum going. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ged in the onion bag 959 Posted December 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, smooth said: Ged, I 100% agree that Lungi in central midfield is a must and I agree that as you note that CDM position is so valuable in the prem that if this seasons goes as well as it does, we need to get that position right and I so hope we have learnt from last year on that one. So I would agree we need Skipp to get settled happy and if we think the conversation means he may be here next season great, we do need to try Lungi there, no question. He is looking like a very able player and in his natural position will shine this season and for more to come, of which I have no doubt. But it is a position we do need to look at if we are on track to go up. So I see the arguments for bringing McCallum back, but I think his development is going well at Coventry. He will be a better player for it and it seems that there has been noise recently in our media that this position is being looked at. I would be happy bringing someone in to fight with Xavi, if he comes back; or to add that experience in a starting position allowing Lungi to play more in the middle. I do think we need a senior play in that position as we get close to the run in after January so it will be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully our form continues now and we get more cohesion, players back and each one carries a bit more load. We have a na excellent chance of keeping momentum going. Thanks for the reply. The issue with Skipp is completely out of our hands though and we would likely only get him in the last week of the summer transfer window... assuming promotion is achieved, it’s a risk I don’t think we can take, as it could leave us desperate and out of time. In any event we need at least 3 capable central midfielders! I would worry Rupp doesn’t have the pace, power or ability to run games at that level, Sorensen has no senior experience in CDM and last season proved the rest aren’t the answer, even as backup!. I agree that leaving McCallum at Coventry remains an ideal solution for his development but coming back may also prove as good for him but could be a help to us, this season. If he plays regular, then it’s best all round of course. Good to have that option! Some experience never hurts and be interesting to see what the club does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,358 Posted December 16, 2020 3 hours ago, king canary said: I think the issue was Farke didn't see him as good enough to be the starter and didn't think he'd develop enough spending a season on the bench, rather than thinking he just wasn't good enough even to be backup. Obviously with hindsight he would have got a decent amount of game time with Quintilla being injured. Exactly. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that but, ultimately, it was felt that McCallum would've been able to challenge for a starting spot and, given what they think of his development curve, was better for him to get gametime elsewhere - and at a team not looking to challenge for automatic promotion. Pure conjecture on my part, but I think they might've tried to get in another LB as backup on loan, as it was fairly clear that we were lacking natural cover there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete 368 Posted December 16, 2020 Get real Skipp has been sent to Norwich on the understanding is he will play if fit. PL loans out its promising youngsters get the experience. Leaving just the one other DM place available Rupp, Tettey and McClean have it covered Sorensen would not have been given the chance to impress if LB option had not been opened up. Certainly looks to be a potential DM for the future but for the moment is a competent LB. If we should get promoted Skipp will be at Norwich City next season if not at a lower PL side or promoted side in the south of England. So lets clarify the position and just get promoted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 4,682 Posted December 16, 2020 3 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said: Some on here like to use the forum for debate, make comments, give opinions (ideally back them up) and ask questions... others on here make comments based on absolute assumption and regularly fail to back it up with any substance. You don't know that DF doesn't think he's able to do a job for us now, you could assume that he didn't think so when he sent Sam out on loan, but as I said, that was before he had played what is probably more games than Sorensen has now played. If you don't want to consider and respond to any (reasoned) comments in response to yours, then why bother posting on here in the first place! I promise to make a better effort in my rational in future, humble apologies again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ged in the onion bag 959 Posted December 16, 2020 2 hours ago, pete said: Get real Skipp has been sent to Norwich on the understanding is he will play if fit. PL loans out its promising youngsters get the experience. Leaving just the one other DM place available Rupp, Tettey and McClean have it covered Sorensen would not have been given the chance to impress if LB option had not been opened up. Certainly looks to be a potential DM for the future but for the moment is a competent LB. If we should get promoted Skipp will be at Norwich City next season if not at a lower PL side or promoted side in the south of England. So lets clarify the position and just get promoted. Not a chance the club would agree that. Give them the credit they evidently deserve. If Skipp didn't deserve his place (fortunately, he does) then no way would Farke be forced to play him. In terms of ideal starters, it's Rupp and Skipp, then we need to see what Sorensen can do... then Tettey, McLean. So lets say we get promoted .... Spurs have some injury problems in central midfield, Skipp wants his chance, Spurs get an offer for Skipp that they feel is too good to turn down (unlikely to be from us), Spurs delay in releasing Skipp to us, etc... etc...., what do we do about the CDM position. Who in your opinion do we have for that role. I only see potential in Sorensen and its only that, potential. None of the others including Rupp could control games at EPL level. Surely we need to start making contingency for the very possibility of promotion. Just getting promotion isn't how we work. Otherwise, we either go with players proven inadequate, have to buy significant quality and experience (presumably at significant cost which is unlikely) or rely on our brilliant scouts find more gems.... finding EPL quality players on the cheap isn't easy... Sorensen needs time at CDM to prove he is capable and to gain some experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites