Sheffield United

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Very little to gloat about to be honest. They are in the doo doo and it happens to all the clubs like us and them.

Luckily for them, there are enough clubs around them not coping either and they haven't been cast adrift yet.

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

I’ve developed a bit of a soft spot for Wilder, he seems to be the only manager in the premier league  that understands supporters

[The Real Buh 3,423]

If only our coach had turned up on time...

[Move Klose 303]

This is what happens when you dont evolve in your 2nd season.

That's a squad which lacks creativity and has an abundance of bang average strikers.

I see them starting players who would struggle to get in some championship sides. Billy Sharp for one. If he isnt a sheff u and legend is he still even at the club.

Chris Basham is another.

Sander Berge and Brewster 2 very good players but do they suit there game and the way they are trying to play. I dont think so.

Signed 2 promising full backs in Lowe and Bogle (15m) didnt even make the squad today.

18m for Ramsdale isnt a great deal.

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Very little to gloat about to be honest. They are in the doo doo and it happens to all the clubs like us and them.

Luckily for them, there are enough clubs around them not coping either and they haven't been cast adrift yet.

They're fairly adrift to be fair, 5 points behind 19th and 8 from safety , quite a distance when you've only got 1 point. 

Said it before, Derby's record is going this season. 

[CANARYKING 634]

Least we one the odd game here and there

[Petriix 2,834]

It could be quite calamitous for them as they don't have the same kind of wage structure that we have. Those big money signings come with big money wages. It will be interesting to see how they manage the squad when they go down.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

12 minutes ago, Petriix said:

It could be quite calamitous for them as they don't have the same kind of wage structure that we have. Those big money signings come with big money wages. It will be interesting to see how they manage the squad when they go down.

Apparently the reason they missed out on their decent transfer targets like Ollie Watkins this summer is because they have a very strict wage budget. I think their wage bill is the lowest in the division, and they were only club with a lower wage bill than us last season.

A problem for them could be that they have few players of value. They could probably recoup most of what they paid for Berge and Brewster but they don't have too many saleable assets like Watford, Bournemouth and ourselves did in the summer.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

29 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Apparently the reason they missed out on their decent transfer targets like Ollie Watkins this summer is because they have a very strict wage budget. I think their wage bill is the lowest in the division, and they were only club with a lower wage bill than us last season.

A problem for them could be that they have few players of value. They could probably recoup most of what they paid for Berge and Brewster but they don't have too many saleable assets like Watford, Bournemouth and ourselves did in the summer.

 

I can believe that. The question, if they get relegated, is whether the national press and the 'football world' - the most insular and no-nothing club is existence -  will attack Sheffield United for not trying to stay up in the way we were.

[Petriix 2,834]

7 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Apparently the reason they missed out on their decent transfer targets like Ollie Watkins this summer is because they have a very strict wage budget. I think their wage bill is the lowest in the division, and they were only club with a lower wage bill than us last season.

A problem for them could be that they have few players of value. They could probably recoup most of what they paid for Berge and Brewster but they don't have too many saleable assets like Watford, Bournemouth and ourselves did in the summer.

 

I stand corrected. I assumed that they must be paying bigger wages to attract the likes of McBernie.

[Michael Starr 519]

I think it's mainly down to momentum and confidence. Plus, they haven't really recruited that well of late, I wouldn't say the squad is better than last season. Also, covid removing fans probably has a bigger impact for the smaller clubs anyway.

[Indy_Bones 441]

9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The question, if they get relegated, is whether the national press and the 'football world' - the most insular and no-nothing club is existence -  will attack Sheffield United for not trying to stay up in the way we were.

Unlikely PC as it will be seen that they spent good money since Jan to do this, with around 80 million on players who are likely to be on reasonably high wages.

In contrast over a similar time frame we spent around 17 million on transfer fees and our most expensive in that PL season was the loan fee we paid for Fahrmann ffs (not including the 3 mil+ we gave for McCallum)!

They definitely put more money out there in attempt to stay up that we did, and it absolutely worked for them last year, this season however is a complete disaster, and the 56+ million they've spent on the likes of Brewster, Ramsdale, Burke, Bogle and Lowe isn't looking like a good investment of limited funds so far, but at least they've actually spent it which is counter to us not. (Not saying either choice was right or wrong btw).

[king canary 7,578]

I don't see the link between Sheffiled United struggling this season and us last season.

If they come down this season it doesn't suddenly justify our strategy last season- the two things are pretty unrelated. 

[Badger 2,405]

13 minutes ago, king canary said:

I don't see the link between Sheffiled United struggling this season and us last season.

If they come down this season it doesn't suddenly justify our strategy last season- the two things are pretty unrelated. 

I would tend to agree with this but would add that the fact that they stayed up last year does not act as condemnation of last year's strategy. 

More relevant is their capacity to recover IF they are relegated. We have seen, in previous years, although this year seems very different so far, how relegated teams have financially over-committed - although I suspect FFP might take a back seat for a year or two!

[Crabbycanary3 994]

I'm not comparing our strategy with theirs, but focusing on Sheff Utd's success last season, where they were highly commended for their approach etc, yet here they are less than 6 months later, staring down the barrel already. So, the overall strategy seems very flawed does it not? A strategy has to be longer than 1 season. 

Would be keen to see what the Blunts fans, who have been on here over the last 12-18 months have to say now.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I think the comparison is fair. But the real comparison is whether they stick around the much derided top 26. We pretty much have for ten years. West Brom and Fulham are two I can think of who also have. But others are relegated and drop away. When we went up in 2011 QPR and Swansea were with us. Swansea did better than us staying up for 7 seasons. They still look strong now but I suspect this season is crucial for them. QPR kept pace for a couple of seasons and then fell away. 

Then of course there's the myth that many clubs become established premier league members. Which means our achievements are often regarded as failures on here.

 

[king canary 7,578]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

I would tend to agree with this but would add that the fact that they stayed up last year does not act as condemnation of last year's strategy. 

More relevant is their capacity to recover IF they are relegated. We have seen, in previous years, although this year seems very different so far, how relegated teams have financially over-committed - although I suspect FFP might take a back seat for a year or two!

Yeah I think the bounce back is important- Fulham, for instance, were widely derided for their Premier League strategy a couple of years ago but were able to bounce back and look better equipped this time around.

It is also difficult without agreeing what the goals are in the first polace. As NN says there is the myth of the 'established Premier League club' but at the same point is ours or Fulham's strategy really successful if you can't stick in the Premier League for more than a season?

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

13 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I think the comparison is fair. But the real comparison is whether they stick around the much derided top 26. We pretty much have for ten years. West Brom and Fulham are two I can think of who also have. But others are relegated and drop away. When we went up in 2011 QPR and Swansea were with us. Swansea did better than us staying up for 7 seasons. They still look strong now but I suspect this season is crucial for them. QPR kept pace for a couple of seasons and then fell away. 

Then of course there's the myth that many clubs become established premier league members. Which means our achievements are often regarded as failures on here.

 

Very true.  If you look at the current Prem table, it's almost impossible for any of the big 6 to be relegated because ultimately their squad strength plus a change of manager would be enough to see them through to survival.

 

But all the other teams could easily be relegated in any given season.  Teams like Swansea, Stoke, WBA, Fulham, Bournemouth all seemed fairly recently to have made a good attempt at getting "established" in the Prem, but all were then relegated.

 

I think the reality is that (barring an owner who's willing to invest getting on for a billion pounds a la Man City - would that even work under FFP?) that aside from the big 6, no one is "established" in the Prem.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

16 hours ago, Move Klose said:

This is what happens when you dont evolve in your 2nd season.

That's a squad which lacks creativity and has an abundance of bang average strikers.

I see them starting players who would struggle to get in some championship sides. Billy Sharp for one. If he isnt a sheff u and legend is he still even at the club.

Chris Basham is another.

Sander Berge and Brewster 2 very good players but do they suit there game and the way they are trying to play. I dont think so.

Signed 2 promising full backs in Lowe and Bogle (15m) didnt even make the squad today.

18m for Ramsdale isnt a great deal.

Ramsdale at £18m looks like a bit of a panic signing as they couldn't afford Henderson (and he'd prob be aiming higher anyway after the season he had). 

But think they only paid £11m for Bogle and Lowe, which I'm sure will end up looking cheap. Should keep Wilder, they can come back up stronger and McBurnie will probably find his form in this league. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Also looking at Sheff Utd, it seems to me basically last season most of the variable things that can go either way, went in their favour.  Injuries (lack of) being the biggest thing, where they were able to use a record low number of players from their squad over the season, particularly their defence being virtually unchanged.

 

Also they had some one-off factors like having Dean Henderson having an outstanding season in goal, and people taking time to work out their style of play, etc.

 

This season it's pretty much gone into reverse.  It's still amazing though that they've only got one point - is that a record yet by this time of the season ?  They're well on course to beat Derby's points record !
 

Equally the perverse nature of the Prem means they're only 3 wins away from safety.  They're fully capable of getting 3 wins in quick succession if they can turn it around.

 

I have to admit their fans seemed to develop an unattractively smug attitude last season - I was struck by it listening to local radio when driving to our game at Bramall lane.  So it is a bit funny to see them doing so appallingly this time around.  They're now at the point when they're starting to roll over in games which never happened last year that I remember - after a certain number of defeats, you start to lose your self belief.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Would a change of manager before January do them some good? Would Wilder do  the honorable thing for his Club, and resign , or indeed, would they sack him? I just cannot see him being in charge of them, if they are in the Championship next season. He would have gone way before then, certainly at this rate

[jaberry2 550]

1 hour ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I'm not comparing our strategy with theirs, but focusing on Sheff Utd's success last season, where they were highly commended for their approach etc, yet here they are less than 6 months later, staring down the barrel already. So, the overall strategy seems very flawed does it not? A strategy has to be longer than 1 season. 

Would be keen to see what the Blunts fans, who have been on here over the last 12-18 months have to say now.

The main difference between us and Sheffield Utd is that they had a solid team who didnt concede who were tough to beat. We simply didn't have the quality of player especially in our defense to be resilient enough to survive. If we do go up, I hope we learn our lessons that fundamentally the quality throughout much of the team will need to improve dramatically, especially in terms of depth.

[shefcanary 2,385]

6 hours ago, Petriix said:

I stand corrected. I assumed that they must be paying bigger wages to attract the likes of McBernie.

You are right that McBurnie is the highest paid, and therefore least liked by the fans!  As others have said they do have an extremely strict wage structure (heard it from Wilder himself down our local last year when he was questioned why they had signed no-one).   

So, as well as buying big, do you pay bigger salaries too?  The criticism of them this season appears to be the players are no longer trying as hard as last year, what do you think, is there a link?

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

I can see them going into total free fall after what could be a record breaking relegation, and end up back in League 1.

[jaberry2 550]

5 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I can see them going into total free fall after what could be a record breaking relegation, and end up back in League 1.

Now that would be amusing.

[shefcanary 2,385]

1 hour ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Would a change of manager before January do them some good? Would Wilder do  the honorable thing for his Club, and resign , or indeed, would they sack him? I just cannot see him being in charge of them, if they are in the Championship next season. He would have gone way before then, certainly at this rate

Interesting question which is being posed among some of my Blunts friends.  They are already pointing to Norwich though and the fact we stuck with Farke, and lo we are "walking the championship this season".  As Sheff U have a habit of nicking our ideas it wouldn't surprise me if they persevere with Wilder.  It would be good to pose the question of his view down the local again, but alas Tier 3!

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

As NN says there is the myth of the 'established Premier League club' but at the same point is ours or Fulham's strategy really successful if you can't stick in the Premier League for more than a season?

Yes, if it enables us to become "established" in the medium term.

Partially "Yes," if it keeps us competitive in the Championship with involvement at the top end of the table and prospects of promotion or playoff in most years.

"No" if it leads to long term Championship membership with little prospect of promotion

"Abject failure" if it leads to relegation and sustained membership of a lower league a la some big spenders like Sunderland and Ipswich

[Crabbycanary3 994]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Interesting question which is being posed among some of my Blunts friends.  They are already pointing to Norwich though and the fact we stuck with Farke, and lo we are "walking the championship this season".  As Sheff U have a habit of nicking our ideas it wouldn't surprise me if they persevere with Wilder.  It would be good to pose the question of his view down the local again, but alas Tier 3!

Perhaps the subtle difference here is that we were on a little bit of a roll before lockdown, and of course, the January sales had finished, but there was a bit of interest and hope still left in our season in March. By the end of January Sheff Utd could be a long long way from 4th from bottom, and if they then decide to stick with Wilder, what a horrendous rest of the season it would be for the fans and players, with no motivation etc. He won't stay the golden boy all the way into next August.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Crabbycanary3

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

I suppose they also have the added safety net of three years of parachute payments as opposed to our two, not 100% sure how much money that is but if in excess of 50million, its a healthy  bonus.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

21 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Interesting question which is being posed among some of my Blunts friends.  They are already pointing to Norwich though and the fact we stuck with Farke, and lo we are "walking the championship this season".  As Sheff U have a habit of nicking our ideas it wouldn't surprise me if they persevere with Wilder.  It would be good to pose the question of his view down the local again, but alas Tier 3!

A manager with promotion experience is valuable in the Market. The blunts owners said as much at the weekend - if we go down we have a proven man to bring us back up. Sort of makes sense . 
 

Not a logic we employed with Hughton though !