Proper Championship football

[lake district canary 4,531]

55 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Tettey positional sense, movement and technical distribution was very poor.

Curious how people see things differently, I though he had overall a good game and was efficient with his use of the ball, often turning his way out of tight positions well and passing accurately - also venturing more forwards than he usually does - it certainly worked for the first goal.   I know he made one sloppy pass early in the match, but that was the only time I think. I enjoyed his performance overall.

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

23 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

To further clarify @ron obvious..Tettey is generally extremely good positionally in defensive scenarios, though the ying and yang of that is that he finds it hard to be fluid, offer angles, leave station, identify and co-operate on overloads when we are in possession.

The game is both aspects and it is quite a compromise if he is in the key CDM position. However if we are well on top it probably doesn’t matter, if we are not on top his other skills are needed and key....😊...

...such are the compromises and conflicts of a coach....

It can be observed that the higher the level you rise to, the less compromises you are required to make as the quality of players improves  (dramatically so with the extreme finance on offer in the Premier League).

Games like Saturday’s do not, can not and must not occur at the top level. Such random openness is severely punished by all at that level.

Parma 

You would hope we will bring in a few quality players to bridge that gap if promoted. Lessons do need to be heeded and not just hope for the best yet again. 

[Monty13 2,231]

I’m just a football fan, no coaching experience, but I have two observations/questions from this thread if I may.

How much do people complain on here when, particularly in the PL, 3rd party observers talk about how poor our opposition played rather than the fact we outplayed them? To me, it seemed for much of the game Blackburn outplayed us, they had a good game plan and it mostly worked. 

Second, we were constantly losing the ball and being pressured into losing it from playing from the back, often in incredibly dangerous positions. While I understand we have a philosophy of play, what is the option if we are being outplayed trying to play that way? Surely Rivers point was there is some level of madness to continue playing that way when the players on the pitch were increasingly looking like conceding from it. I’ll be honest I kind of agree because I just don’t understand what people are saying our approach should be when our philosophy is failing.

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

There was lots of endeavour and possession by Blackburn but the clear cut chances were made by Norwich. Should have been over by half time and absolutely no doubt the better team won.

Sometimes you can over analyse a match just like Parma has on this occasion. 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Midlands Yellow

[Rock The Boat 1,329]

14 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Chris Goreham must learn to not simply follow the interpretation of whoever sits next to him like a fanboy acolyte. Today was a real low point for him.

The words and the pictures often bore very little resemblance to each other. One must be able to disassociate prejudice and pre-conceived views colouring the empirical action.

Mark Rivers simply cannot have been paying any attention to any of the clear and defined methodology Farke has installed. It has been extremely successful by any measure and the blueprint is so clear that judgment as to whether it is working effectively or adhered to correctly should be easy for even the most superficial of followers. 

Parma 

Disagree with most of this. When Blackburn were pressing high it sometimes is an alternative option to go long and bypass a crowded midfield. It is something Blackburn would not expect and.not prepare for. It's called having a plan B and executing it during ingame play. In so doing you can upset the rhythm of the opposition. Our second goal came from long speculative shot instead of trying to pass the ball into the net. Farke has encouraged his players to do the unexpected instead of being slaves to tippy-tappy football. 

I also saw both Hanley and Tettey playing  up front at times. Farke has given them the freedom to drive forward when appropriate. This isn't bad positioning but mixing it up and doing the unexpected to unbalance the opposition. I can recognise that Farke is developing far more.complex patterns of play than simple playing out from the back. 

And who really cares what the commentators are saying?

 

[sgncfc 1,227]

For coaches, it's all about possession. Turning over possession higher up the pitch, or pressing high to force a longer pass which increases the chance of a turnover or a long ball. Keeping the ball by playing out from the back makes a lot of sense and it is easier to keep shape and move the ball through those trusty thirds. Walking the ball into the net is the coaches passion. But possession doesn't win matches all the time, as we proved. And for supporters, a game like yesterdays with a bit of headless chickens thrown in, is much more enjoyable, especially when you win. Yes, we could have lost it, and then maybe the criticism about lack of control, people not doing their jobs etc might be more valid. But we didn't.

[FenwayFrank 2,458]

5 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

To further clarify

Please don’t 

6 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

central pivot

Formation fanny 😁

18 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Nonsense. A hugely entertaining game and one where Norwich were forced to play as they did because Blackburn dominated midfield, marked Buendia out of the game (mostly) and pressed high. Our movement at times in the first half was close to two seasons ago. When Blackburn stepped it up after the interval we were almost overwhelmed but Maclean and Cantwell took back the midfield. Great match, with good tactical adjustments.

He’ll put you on ignore and label you a troll for that 😉

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

Ex professional footballer Mark Rivers speaks like a fan. Lots of fans get the hump when we lose the ball. So what? 

I’m more interested in why an apparent international football coach and hugely successful entrepreneur across the whole of Europe, with presumably all of the riches and responsibilities that that brings,   spends so much time on a  football  fans forum ? 🤔

[hogesar 9,657]

38 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Ex professional footballer Mark Rivers speaks like a fan. Lots of fans get the hump when we lose the ball. So what? 

I’m more interested in why an apparent international football coach and hugely successful entrepreneur across the whole of Europe, with presumably all of the riches and responsibilities that that brings,   spends so much time on a  football  fans forum ? 🤔

People are allowed hobbies, and I'd highly recommend not making snide comments abojt his profession until you've met the guy. Some on this forum have done.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

44 minutes ago, hogesar said:

People are allowed hobbies, and I'd highly recommend not making snide comments abojt his profession until you've met the guy. Some on this forum have done.

What guy? How do you know who I mean? I left it suitably vague . It could have been anyone ? 

[hogesar 9,657]

12 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

What guy? How do you know who I mean? I left it suitably vague . It could have been anyone ? 

There's only one professional football coach who has posted on this thread.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

26 minutes ago, hogesar said:

There's only one professional football coach who has posted on this thread.

Is he actually a professional football coach then?

I wasn't ever sure as he just seems to use fancy words to state the complete obvious a lot of the time, and didn't he say he played for Parma at some stage? They've never had an English player on a professional contract. 

 But if there are people on here who have met / know his full identity and can verify that he is a professional football coach then fair enough.

What qualifies as professional football coach though? Because a mate of mine coaches a Championship U10 side (stayed with them since U8's) and he still does 24 hours a week in an admin job for an insurance company lol. Admittedly one of the more skint sides, but still. 

How can anybody say that was the poorest performance of the season though? Presumably somebody who didn't watch the Luton game? 

Edited December 13, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[East Rider 549]

20 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Nonsense. A hugely entertaining game and one where Norwich were forced to play as they did because Blackburn dominated midfield, marked Buendia out of the game (mostly) and pressed high. Our movement at times in the first half was close to two seasons ago. When Blackburn stepped it up after the interval we were almost overwhelmed but Maclean and Cantwell took back the midfield. Great match, with good tactical adjustments.

Exactly how I saw it.

Cantwell came on and the game completely changed almost immediately. Mclean started wining headers and made a number of important passes. Both strong players at this level and really well introduced back into the side.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Is he actually a professional football coach then?

I wasn't ever sure as he just seems to use fancy words to state the complete obvious a lot of the time, and didn't he say he played for Parma at some stage? They've never had an English player on a professional contract. 

 But if there are people on here who have met / know his full identity and can verify that he is a professional football coach then fair enough.

What qualifies as professional football coach though? Because a mate of mine coaches a Championship U10 side (stayed with them since U8's) and he still does 24 hours a week in an admin job for an insurance company lol. Admittedly one of the more skint sides, but still. 

Well don’t tell anyone - but I’ve done a bit of coaching including for three professional clubs in their academies and player development centres. I got expenses from two of them and got paid in kit from all of them. 

Therefore there could be more than one pro coach on here ! Howz about that ?😂

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

23 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Norwich’s poorest performance of the season. 

Did you miss the Luton game by any chance Parma? 

Couldn't get the ball out of our own half for long spells of the game. 

This was nowhere near our worst performance of the season.

[hogesar 9,657]

23 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Is he actually a professional football coach then?

I wasn't ever sure as he just seems to use fancy words to state the complete obvious a lot of the time, and didn't he say he played for Parma at some stage? They've never had an English player on a professional contract. 

 But if there are people on here who have met / know his full identity and can verify that he is a professional football coach then fair enough.

What qualifies as professional football coach though? Because a mate of mine coaches a Championship U10 side (stayed with them since U8's) and he still does 24 hours a week in an admin job for an insurance company lol. Admittedly one of the more skint sides, but still. 

How can anybody say that was the poorest performance of the season though? Presumably somebody who didn't watch the Luton game? 

Parma tries to avoid talking about it on here because people get a bit uppity when someone genuinely has more football knowledge than them and its backed up.

I'm sure if he wants to he'll correct me as I cant remember for sure but I'm pretty sure he's been a first team coach for both an Italian Serie A and B club.

And yeah, I can confirm posters have met him. @nutty nigel can probably endorse him better than I can. I can't remember his playing career. 

Re Luton, I agree with you on the face of it as a fan you're much happier with yesterday's performance than Lutons. I certainly am. But what Parma is saying is from a coaches perspective. He's made some good points.

There's a couple on this forum that ridicule him and I'm not sure if that's just because they think they know better / jealousy/ don't believe he is who he says he is or whatever.

For me, I'll always defend him because some of his tactics masterclasses were really good and interesting. He offers something different to the usual stuff fans post.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Parma tries to avoid talking about it on here because people get a bit uppity when someone genuinely has more football knowledge than them and its backed up.

I'm sure if he wants to he'll correct me as I cant remember for sure but I'm pretty sure he's been a first team coach for both an Italian Serie A and B club.

And yeah, I can confirm posters have met him. @nutty nigel can probably endorse him better than I can. I can't remember his playing career. 

Re Luton, I agree with you on the face of it as a fan you're much happier with yesterday's performance than Lutons. I certainly am. But what Parma is saying is from a coaches perspective. He's made some good points.

There's a couple on this forum that ridicule him and I'm not sure if that's just because they think they know better / jealousy/ don't believe he is who he says he is or whatever.

For me, I'll always defend him because some of his tactics masterclasses were really good and interesting. He offers something different to the usual stuff fans post.

Well I hope he didn't have anything to do with that time we played a bunch of pub players in a pre-season friendly because we thought they were a Serie D team. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

People are allowed hobbies, and I'd highly recommend not making snide comments abojt his profession until you've met the guy. Some on this forum have done.

Could we have a stab in the dark who they might be? 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

I've watched games beside Parma and he sees things that I wouldn't normally notice. He has a deeper understanding of what's going on than I have. I love to hear his insight and appreciate his posts on here. But I wouldn't wish for it and would imagine it's a cross to bear if you're combining it with unconditional support for a football team. In fact I would think it's impossible to be both. 

Oh and Parma's  a top man. Humble too. I'm honoured to have him as a friend.

[lake district canary 4,531]

9 hours ago, Monty13 said:

While I understand we have a philosophy of play, what is the option if we are being outplayed trying to play that way? Surely Rivers point was there is some level of madness to continue playing that way when the players on the pitch were increasingly looking like conceding from it. I’ll be honest I kind of agree because I just don’t understand what people are saying our approach should be when our philosophy is failing.

It's not a failing philosophy though. It wasn't good enough last season, but then the problems last season were as much about scoring goals as the footballing philosophy of playing out from the back. It's not failing this season either. Yes, we get ourselves tied up a bit sometimes but the ethos is clear - we keep playing the same way. 

Farke made an interesting point the other week - he wants us to be the masters of our own destiny, which means if we make mistakes and the other team take advantage, at least it is being caused by us and not the opposition....so we win playing our way or we lose playing our way - on the whole this season it seems to be working!

 

[Monty13 2,231]

17 hours ago, lake district canary said:

It's not a failing philosophy though. It wasn't good enough last season, but then the problems last season were as much about scoring goals as the footballing philosophy of playing out from the back. It's not failing this season either. Yes, we get ourselves tied up a bit sometimes but the ethos is clear - we keep playing the same way. 

Farke made an interesting point the other week - he wants us to be the masters of our own destiny, which means if we make mistakes and the other team take advantage, at least it is being caused by us and not the opposition....so we win playing our way or we lose playing our way - on the whole this season it seems to be working!

 

Failing at the time not overall, I thought that was clear. It’s clearly working overall and I love the way we play.

However not having another option and stubbornly playing yourself into trouble when it isn’t working is not something I’ll praise personally.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

When it comes off (Man City at home last season was amazing at times) then 'Farkeball' is the best football I have seen us play in  nearly 47 years of watching. When it doesn't work or gets hairy, I have wished we had hoofed it 😉 

I do have faith in Farke and what he is trying to do.

 I love it and he/ the players, won't ever get it 100% right over a season (and there will be teams who handle us better than others, we just have to try and overcome that over 90 minutes), but it is a joy watching it, knowing they are trying to play football how I would like it to be played.

How and when it all will end, I don't know but I am enjoying the journey

 

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

29 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

When it comes off (Man City at home last season was amazing at times) then 'Farkeball' is the best football I have seen us play in  nearly 47 years of watching. When it doesn't work or gets hairy, I have wished we had hoofed it 😉 

I do have faith in Farke and what he is trying to do.

 I love it and he/ the players, won't ever get it 100% right over a season (and there will be teams who handle us better than others, we just have to try and overcome that over 90 minutes), but it is a joy watching it, knowing they are trying to play football how I would like it to be played.

How and when it all will end, I don't know but I am enjoying the journey

 

 

This is what being a football fan is really all about. We all understand the tactics and we see the merit when it works. Like you I’ve seen some of the best football ever under Farke  at CR since I first stepped through the door in 1972. 
 

But

 

it won’t stop me shouting “lump the bloody thing” when I’ve twice watched us lose the ball in our third , and the opposition score from it . Apologies , but I don’t have the presence of mind to be so rational. 
 

The other night I would have taken Vrancic off. He then makes a game changing tackle and a slide rule pass and we win . 
 

All these rational clever **** are lucky . I can’t think like them watching NCFC. 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

42 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

 

 

All these rational clever **** are lucky . I can’t think like them watching NCFC. 

I think they're unlucky. Parma's a great guy and I love his insight. But I'm sure he'd agree that it's very difficult to combine that with avid support at games.

I don't have that worry. So I can spend every second of every game getting behind the team with my yellow and green specs firmly in place.

But I do think that sort of supporter is becoming an endangered species as the game becomes more a product for tv with analysis now part of that in game experience. 

[vos 155]

Thought this was a good championship game. The main emphasis was for us as a visiting team was to contain their attacking force. They had a lot of pressure in the second half but we held firm and did not allow many chances. Danger man Armstrong did not get a sniff. The game did highlight that when the going got a bit tough in the early second half we were lightweight in midfield. Virtually down to ten men. Vrancic was well off the pace. He is useful to come on when we are totally in command and trying to gain a breakthrough but the physical battle is not for him. For me Farke still remains an interesting coach. Has a great record with us but still delays subs (nearly too late Sat). Zonal marking is too close to the keeper which makes us look vulnerable to set pieces. Mark Rivers pointed out we were regularly putting ourselves under pressure with short passes out from the keeper. But Farke is quite entitled to say to me "when did you last get a team promoted".

[Crabbycanary3 994]

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

This is what being a football fan is really all about. We all understand the tactics and we see the merit when it works. Like you I’ve seen some of the best football ever under Farke  at CR since I first stepped through the door in 1972. 
 

But

 

it won’t stop me shouting “lump the bloody thing” when I’ve twice watched us lose the ball in our third , and the opposition score from it . Apologies , but I don’t have the presence of mind to be so rational. 
 

The other night I would have taken Vrancic off. He then makes a game changing tackle and a slide rule pass and we win . 
 

All these rational clever **** are lucky . I can’t think like them watching NCFC. 

As much as I do appreciate the Farkeball concept, there definitely is a time for hoofing and lumping it . 😉 

[BigGrantsTash 70]

On 13/12/2020 at 21:17, hogesar said:

Parma tries to avoid talking about it on here because people get a bit uppity when someone genuinely has more football knowledge than them and its backed up.

I'm sure if he wants to he'll correct me as I cant remember for sure but I'm pretty sure he's been a first team coach for both an Italian Serie A and B club.

And yeah, I can confirm posters have met him. @nutty nigel can probably endorse him better than I can. I can't remember his playing career. 

Re Luton, I agree with you on the face of it as a fan you're much happier with yesterday's performance than Lutons. I certainly am. But what Parma is saying is from a coaches perspective. He's made some good points.

There's a couple on this forum that ridicule him and I'm not sure if that's just because they think they know better / jealousy/ don't believe he is who he says he is or whatever.

For me, I'll always defend him because some of his tactics masterclasses were really good and interesting. He offers something different to the usual stuff fans post.

Parma invented a fake football career a while back. Claiming he came through the Ajax academy as a player and played for them then had a long career in Italy. Then apparently coached at Parma then under an international manager. The problem is that kids like me have google now a days and it only takes 10 minutes to find out this career never existed.

[BigGrantsTash 70]

On 13/12/2020 at 22:09, nutty nigel said:

I've watched games beside Parma and he sees things that I wouldn't normally notice. He has a deeper understanding of what's going on than I have. I love to hear his insight and appreciate his posts on here. But I wouldn't wish for it and would imagine it's a cross to bear if you're combining it with unconditional support for a football team. In fact I would think it's impossible to be both. 

Oh and Parma's  a top man. Humble too. I'm honoured to have him as a friend.

Yet he lied and made up a fake football career in order to gain more credibility on a football forum. Not great tbh.

He’s detailed his career many times on here and everyone has google and an internet connection to check if he’s telling the truth. Which he is not.

But at the end of the day I get the impression he’s agreed with a few people and they would rather live with the illusion he used to play and coach in Europe because it makes them feel more knowledgeable?

[makham 81]

5 hours ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Yet he lied and made up a fake football career in order to gain more credibility on a football forum. Not great tbh.

He’s detailed his career many times on here and everyone has google and an internet connection to check if he’s telling the truth. Which he is not.

But at the end of the day I get the impression he’s agreed with a few people and they would rather live with the illusion he used to play and coach in Europe because it makes them feel more knowledgeable?

Wouldn't you still need to know Parma's real name to google and confirm his authenticity? Some career details alone would surely just lead to a number of potential matches. I've no idea, and I am not sure how specific the details that he's provided are, in terms of dates of his appointments, playing career, etc.  He seems quite genuine to me, but I understand people's scepticism. 

I know some people are put off by his writing style. The way people present themselves on internet forums doesn't always tell you everything about what they are really like. Meeting them would give a more complete picture. I know I wish I could express myself better when I write.

Edited December 15, 2020 by makham
edit 2nd para, an aside to response to BG's Tash

[hogesar 9,657]

6 hours ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Parma invented a fake football career a while back. Claiming he came through the Ajax academy as a player and played for them then had a long career in Italy. Then apparently coached at Parma then under an international manager. The problem is that kids like me have google now a days and it only takes 10 minutes to find out this career never existed.

No, he didn't make anything up.