Millwall fans boo thier own players taking the knee

[lake district canary 4,531]

Amazing, isn't it.  Instead of showing joy at being able to go to football again, some people made it the chance to be sad and vindictive towards a well meaning gesture and demonstrate their overt racism in public.  If Millwall FC has any honour they will root these people out and ban them from attending matches for good.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

For what it's worth, I've been saying this for weeks. It had an impact at the start, but now 'taking the knee' has just become a habit and nobody really pays attention to it any more. They need to think of a new initiative if they want to keep raising awareness.

However, I'd be surprised if any of the fans booing were doing it for any reason other than being against the Black Lives Matter movement and in all likelihood because they're against black people in general. I think a reasonably-minded non-racist person who simply feels that gesture is outdated or not relevant wouldn't dream of booing it.

Agree with every word of this.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

Just now, lake district canary said:

Amazing, isn't it.  Instead of showing joy at being able to go to football again, some people made it the chance to be sad and vindictive towards a well meaning gesture and demonstrate their overt racism in public.  If Millwall FC has any honour they will root these people out and ban them from attending matches for good.

You can't ban someone for booing a gesture. If the club can prove they have actually said or done anything directly racist while attending the match, then ban them for life. But booing the knee gesture is neither inherently racist nor bannable.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Well my argument is obviously more nuanced than that, but if you want to simplify it to that extent then we're not going to get very far with this conversation.

Fair enough, I'm being a bit facetious, and you're right that there's a discussion to be had about how effective it is, and whether it will just become a lip service gesture.

But this feels like a bit of a "good people on both sides" issue, where the vast majority of people who oppose it are motivated by racism (consciously or not). Those aren't the people I would want to allow to set the agenda of that discussion.

 

[yellow 63 23]

I for one when i return hopefully this season,won't be booing but a shout''of get up'' will be shouted,and 100% not a racist gene in my body

[lake district canary 4,531]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

You can't ban someone for booing a gesture. If the club can prove they have actually said or done anything directly racist while attending the match, then ban them for life. But booing the knee gesture is neither inherently racist nor bannable.

I disagree with that too.

[hogesar 9,616]

6 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

No, but when coupled with some respected BAME commentators such as Les Ferdinand questioning the ongoing validity of the gesture, I think it does need discussing. And I think it will be, which I believe is a good thing that will come out of what is a rather distasteful situation.

I dont disagree that this is something that should have really been discussed the start of this new season - a clear plan on how football was going to support racial equality.

Anyway, my point is more that Millwall fans booing it shouldn't be seen as a directive for open conversation, it should be criticised. The booing was unnecessary and worth thinking how any black players on the pitch would have felt at that time.

Also, let's be honest, its not a coincidence the ONLY club in the football league to boo it this weekend just so happens to be Millwall..

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

Just now, Fr. Chewy Louie said:

Fair enough, I'm being a bit facetious, and you're right that there's a discussion to be had about how effective it is, and whether it will just become a lip service gesture.

But this feels like a bit of a "good people on both sides" issue, where the vast majority of people who oppose it are motivated by racism (consciously or not). Those aren't the people I would want to allow to set the agenda of that discussion.

That's a fair point, and I'm not suggesting that fans who booed should be invited to the round table to share their reasoning for booing. I'm just saying the fact that this has happened casts more doubt on the efficacy of 'taking the knee' as the best way to reduce (and ultimately eliminate) racism in football.

[paul moy 235]

So has Cavani been banned for his racism ?

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

I disagree with that too.

I accept that the action is highly likely to be motivated by racist principles, I just don't think it's provable to a degree that you can label and ban someone for doing it.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

1 minute ago, yellow 63 said:

I for one when i return hopefully this season,won't be booing but a shout''of get up'' will be shouted,and 100% not a racist gene in my body

Why?

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

2 minutes ago, alex_ncfc said:

Not condoning it, because what do you expect from Millwall fans, but also is this going to happen forever or what? Along with the obligatory clip of players "taking the knee" on Match of the Day before each games' highlights. It's becoming an empty gesture. 

Millwall does have a particular trait in their fanbase for sure. That's why some are Millwall fans. But agreed the knee is well past its sell buy date now and even some players do not take it. Mentioning no names. And then you get it combined with the 'Black Power' fist which kinda defeats the unity part of it.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

That's a fair point, and I'm not suggesting that fans who booed should be invited to the round table to share their reasoning for booing. I'm just saying the fact that this has happened casts more doubt on the efficacy of 'taking the knee' as the best way to reduce (and ultimately eliminate) racism in football.

I think it's a positive thing in a way as it demonstrates how far there is to go if a bunch of people can't tolerate a 15 second statement once a week.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I dont disagree that this is something that should have really been discussed the start of this new season - a clear plan on how football was going to support racial equality.

Anyway, my point is more that Millwall fans booing it shouldn't be seen as a directive for open conversation, it should be criticised. The booing was unnecessary and worth thinking how any black players on the pitch would have felt at that time.

Also, let's be honest, its not a coincidence the ONLY club in the football league to boo it this weekend just so happens to be Millwall..

I think it was distasteful and unpleasant, I've already said that. If Millwall's black players and the club's hierarchy use this as a way to confront and weed out the genuinely racist element in their fanbase, then great. I'm sure the club will come out strongly against the behaviour of their fans, as they should. It does increasingly feel like an empty gesture, though, and the longer it continues the less impact it will have.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

They really dont seem the sort of club to to this ?!?

#FamilyClubOfTheYear

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, Fr. Chewy Louie said:

I think it's a positive thing in a way as it demonstrates how far there is to go if a bunch of people can't tolerate a 15 second statement once a week.

I agree. And if there's so far to go, maybe this particular form of protest is losing its efficacy? That's all I'm saying. I want racism and discrimination eradicated from football - and from society - in all its forms. I'm just saying it's open for discussion what the best way is of achieving that goal, or at least moving towards it.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

I agree. And if there's so far to go, maybe this particular form of protest is losing its efficacy? That's all I'm saying. I want racism and discrimination eradicated from football - and from society - in all its forms. I'm just saying it's open for discussion what the best way is of achieving that goal, or at least moving towards it.

Cool, what's the plan? 🙂

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

If black sports people still feel the knee is needed then they should be supported until they don't feel it's needed. Dion Dublin had it right, the boos at Millwall were made by racists.

[NFN FC 1,122]

The gesture was becoming habitual and not doing anything to help the cause. 

But Millwall fans booing it has brought the debate back to the table. Well done you scumbags, you've only drawn attention to a movement you hate. This brings me joy!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The whole movement has lost impetus. And taking the knee isn't changing anything.

Does anyone really think all these knuckle draggers will be convinced that they are wrong by "education"?

All racists, homophobes, mysogynists etc mix in their own circles, neighbourhoods, pubs etc.

They don't discuss alternatives to their sihtty lives. Everyone else is wrong.

There is nothing I can comprehend apart from genocide that will make. them change.

Thank goodness the majority of us aren't them.

[yellow 63 23]

32 minutes ago, Fr. Chewy Louie said:

Why?

Because as other posters have quoted,its become an empty gesture now.

[......and Smith must score. 1,333]

Maybe the authorities should have used the close season as a break point ? There has to be a time to call a halt.

The weekly clapping for the NHS stopped after the instigator suggested it had run it’s course and I believe it’ll now be just an annual event.

Something similar for BLM might be a good compromise.

[seanthecanary 168]

52 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

You can't ban someone for booing a gesture. If the club can prove they have actually said or done anything directly racist while attending the match, then ban them for life. But booing the knee gesture is neither inherently racist nor bannable.

It's a privately owned stadium so surely they can choose who can attend and who can't. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by seanthecanary

[yellow 63 23]

Not into all this politics lark but a link i have been sent 

[hogesar 9,616]

17 minutes ago, yellow 63 said:

Because as other posters have quoted,its become an empty gesture now.

But if the players want to do it what right do you have to shout at them not to do it? You're not forced to take part.

[shefcanary 2,383]

2 minutes ago, yellow 63 said:

Not into all this politics lark but a link i have been sent 

Since when was Black Lives Matters run by "Anarchists, Far Left Marxists and Anti-Semites?  Can you see the EPL promoting a cause run by this grouping?

Look what happens when people say the only people who voted for Brexit were racist little englanders.  

I call ****.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

49 minutes ago, Fr. Chewy Louie said:

Cool, what's the plan? 🙂

Your guess is as good as mine 🙂

[yellow 63 23]

This is the point,i leave this thread,not a racist herberts who deface war memorials derserve a kicking,away fans back in day also,times moved on and knee up

[Branston Pickle 3,634]

15 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Since when was Black Lives Matters run by "Anarchists, Far Left Marxists and Anti-Semites?  Can you see the EPL promoting a cause run by this grouping?

Look what happens when people say the only people who voted for Brexit were racist little englanders.  

I call ****.

It does seem a bit odd, but the problem is that defacing things like Churchill’s statue, or Nelson’s, didn’t do the cause any good as it plays to that kind of narrative, and puts the backs up of many ‘reasonable’ people. Though the sight of foaming-at-the-mouth nutcases “defending” said monuments was horrific.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Branston Pickle

[shefcanary 2,383]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

It does seem a bit odd, but the problem is that defacing things like Churchill’s statue, or Nelson’s, didn’t do the cause any good as it plays to that kind of narrative, and puts the backs up of many ‘reasonable’ people.

So does voting Brexit to a Remainer.  😉