If you play out of the back and...

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

If your entire game is based around playing out from the back and using your keeper as an eleventh outfield player.

Then I have a very simple question... 

.... Why would you have a second choice keeper who simply can't play that role at all and is frankly terrible with his feet? 

This isn't even a question of McGoverns standard (although I think he's way off being good enough for a contract at this level), he's clearly a square peg in a round hole.

Surely you acquire players to fit your system, and this should have meant he was released at the end of his last contract? 

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

Barden can't be any worse............ Can he??? 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,573]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Surely you acquire players to fit your system, and this should have meant he was released at the end of his last contract? 

He was given a new contract when we went up to be a Premier League number three with a bit of part-time coaching, if I'm not mistaken. The 'Carlo Nash' role.

That's fine, but it's also the role he should've been doing this season.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

The fact the Luton Town fans smelt blood whenever he had possession says it all - coming from a set of supporters used to football of a much lower standard!

Poor guy is clearly way out of his league, he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team.

[Clint 221]

I would forgive his kicking if his handling was any better but it’s not! Totally past it and frankly a little embarrassing that we’re having to resort to playing him. A bit like having to play a right footed central midfielder at left back for half the season! 
 

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

8 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Barden can't be any worse............ Can he??? 

Barden looked much more assured versus Luton in the cup opening game of the season, at the very least he is much more capable with his feet!

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

7 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

He was given a new contract when we went up to be a Premier League number three with a bit of part-time coaching, if I'm not mistaken. The 'Carlo Nash' role.

That's fine, but it's also the role he should've been doing this season.

I do wonder whether the plan was for Aston Oxborough to break through as the number 2 this season, and that's why we took a punt on not signing another keeper when McGovern got injured.

Problem is we seem to have took a punt when loaning out McCallum and Famewo as well, and I fear that intentionally leaving ourselves with a lack of depth may come back to haunt us.

Another possibility of course is that Leitner and Drmic are costing us an absolute bomb, and that we were sort of expecting to be able to shift them, and we then loaned out McCallum and Famewo to reduce the wage bill when we panicked a bit about that! 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

 

14 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Barden can't be any worse............ Can he??? 

Still think we should have signed Camp or Lonergan when Krul got injured,  but at this stage I'm prepared for us to take the punt on Barden.

[Big O 282]

Krul and Pukki make a massive difference to the team but in fairness atleast 9 of the team have played pretty much every game for a while now. We look seriously jaded, getting Hernandez, Dowell, Cantwell, Rupp, Pukki and Hudgil back will make a significant difference. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

2 minutes ago, Big O said:

Krul and Pukki make a massive difference to the team but in fairness atleast 9 of the team have played pretty much every game for a while now. We look seriously jaded, getting Hernandez, Dowell, Cantwell, Rupp, Pukki and Hudgil back will make a significant difference. 

Looking forward to seeing Dowell in that number 10 spot, and I think if he impresses he'll really push Cantwell on to find form. A bit of a friendly rival there, both young and English with match winning moments in them! 

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

Still think we should have signed Camp or Lonergan when Krul got injured,  but at this stage I'm prepared for us to take the punt on Barden.

Not sure Camp would have been an improvement, but Lonergan is miles better than McGovern. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

2 games in a row the ball has been in the net and disallowed for a very soft “foul” on McGovern. He just doesn’t inspire any confidence in the air in the box whatsoever, let alone with ball at feet.

[Ken Hairy 4,272]

McGovern has already conceded nearly as many as Krul in the league, desperately need Krul back this side of Christmas, and the situation is top priority for being addressed in January. 

[seanthecanary 168]

9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

 

Still think we should have signed Camp or Lonergan when Krul got injured,  but at this stage I'm prepared for us to take the punt on Barden.

Are either of those well known for their ability to pass out from the back?

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Interesting that Paddy Davitt went for the conservative option and gave him 6/10. Even when unchallenged, he still managed to do weird basketball skills and nearly chuck the thing into his own net. His handling is poor, his aerial dominance is non-existent, his distribution is shocking and he's not even that great a shot-stopper.

I try my best to see the positives in every situation and not be overly critical of the club or any of our players, but McGovern is an absolute liability and needs to be dropped immediately.

[seanthecanary 168]

3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Interesting that Paddy Davitt went for the conservative option and gave him 6/10. Even when unchallenged, he still managed to do weird basketball skills and nearly chuck the thing into his own net. His handling is poor, his aerial dominance is non-existent, his distribution is shocking and he's not even that great a shot-stopper.

I try my best to see the positives in every situation and not be overly critical of the club or any of our players, but McGovern is an absolute liability and needs to be dropped immediately.

While you are not wrong, I would suspect that most supporters of other clubs feel that way about their no.2 goalkeeper.  I know Liverpool fans who have zero faith in Adrian and Chelsea fans think their £70m+ backup is a liability 

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

1 minute ago, seanthecanary said:

While you are not wrong, I would suspect that most supporters of other clubs feel that way about their no.2 goalkeeper.  I know Liverpool fans who have zero faith in Adrian and Chelsea fans think their £70m+ backup is a liability 

Last season we signed an experienced Bundesliga goalkeeper who has been on the fringes of the German national squad to compete with Tim Krul. Now we're stuck with an ageing, fun-sized goalkeeper with no aerial presence, appalling technique and distribution, who hasn't had a good game in more than four years.

If he goes on to have four good games between now and Krul getting back between the sticks, remind me of this post and I will apologise profusely for my overwhelming negativity and buy myself a replica keeper's shirt with 'MCGOVERN' on the back.

[Jim Smith 2,578]

Given we face a Pulis team on Saturday I’m really not sure we can afford to have such an obvious weak link in goal. It will be exploited. The inability to play wit his feet is bad enough but he is absolutely rooted to his line every time a cross comes in. Am convinced Krul would have saved the first and probably punched or claimed the cross for the second last night. It terrifies me every time a cross comes in and the defence must surely feel nervous having a keeper who doesn’t come and claim any crosses at all.

[Capt. Pants 4,965]

We are conceding an average of 2 goals per game with McGovern in. Carry on like that and we can forget about promotion.

I can only think Farke thinks Barden isn't ready. We are now playing with a dreadful keeper and an awful centre forward. 

An unprecedented injury crisis to our forward line is an acceptable excuse but having Mcgovern as no. 2 is very worrying.

[seanthecanary 168]

27 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Last season we signed an experienced Bundesliga goalkeeper who has been on the fringes of the German national squad to compete with Tim Krul. Now we're stuck with an ageing, fun-sized goalkeeper with no aerial presence, appalling technique and distribution, who hasn't had a good game in more than four years.

If he goes on to have four good games between now and Krul getting back between the sticks, remind me of this post and I will apologise profusely for my overwhelming negativity and buy myself a replica keeper's shirt with 'MCGOVERN' on the back.

Again, I don't think you're wrong but Fahrmann just emphasises who hard it is to keep a quality backup keeper.  He wasn't even prepared to stay the full season as no.2.  Any keeper prepared to be a no.2 is generally either young with potential or older and not good enough to be 1st choice.

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Just now, seanthecanary said:

Again, I don't think you're wrong but Fahrmann just emphasises who hard it is to keep a quality backup keeper.  He wasn't even prepared to stay the full season as no.2.  Any keeper prepared to be a no.2 is generally either young with potential or older and not good enough to be 1st choice.

I am aware of this, I just don't think McGovern is anywhere near good enough. Genuinely hope he gets up to speed and proves me wrong, but we're playing a Pulis side on Saturday and I'm scared.

[Jim Smith 2,578]

Two massive errors Webber has made this season is relying on McGovern as back up and loaning out our back up left back leaving us with no cover. Both have started to bite us in the last couple of games. Teams are definitely starting to target Sorensen who has done well to be fair but looked markedly more comfortable as soon as he was moved to the right.

jury remains out on whether signing Hugill rather than someone like Toney is error number three.

loaning out Sinani in the mix as well. 

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

1 hour ago, seanthecanary said:

Are either of those well known for their ability to pass out from the back?

Well its irrelevant now as Lonergan has just signed for Stoke. 

So did the Finnish bloke who played for Bristol City last season.

Camp signed for Coventry.

Both Stoke and Coventry had their first choice keepers injured, and both quickly moved to bring in free agents.  

Those were my 3 ideas when it came to players with Championship experience... 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

6 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Two massive errors Webber has made this season is relying on McGovern as back up and loaning out our back up left back leaving us with no cover. Both have started to bite us in the last couple of games. Teams are definitely starting to target Sorensen who has done well to be fair but looked markedly more comfortable as soon as he was moved to the right.

jury remains out on whether signing Hugill rather than someone like Toney is error number three.

loaning out Sinani in the mix as well. 

 

The first two points I 100% agree with, the goalkeeper and left back flaws in the side were obvious chinks in our armour (hell missing bits of armour even) before a ball was kicked this season and the subject of much discussion on this forum over the summer.

The Hugill and Sinani points may be true in retrospect, but I don't recall any discussion on here on the topic prior to the season.

Hugill could have been a totally different story at this stage in the season if he had played any minutes with Quintilla at left back.

Sinani probably wouldn't be in the discussion either if it wasn't for our injury problems.

So hard to level too much criticism on Webber / Farke for those decisions.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

10 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

jury remains out on whether signing Hugill rather than someone like Toney is error number three.

Probably couldn't afford Toney.... although Akpom was the same transfer fee as Hugill, and looks a better player.

[seanthecanary 168]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Well its irrelevant now as Lonergan has just signed for Stoke. 

So did the Finnish bloke who played for Bristol City last season.

Camp signed for Coventry.

Both Stoke and Coventry had their first choice keepers injured, and both quickly moved to bring in free agents.  

Those were my 3 ideas when it came to players with Championship experience... 

It's not really that irrelevant, you're using lack of ability with the ball as a stick to beat McGovern with and suggesting players who don't really possess that ability either.  I guess the question is would those clubs have signed those players if they had MM at the club already?  We'll never I know I guess.  To be clear, I don't think MM is good enough but I also don't think that Goalkeepers who are good with the ball at their feet, have Championship experience and are good enough to play for a side going for promotion who are also prepared to potentially never play are easy to come by either. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

Just now, seanthecanary said:

It's not really that irrelevant, you're using lack of ability with the ball as a stick to beat McGovern with 

He's just poor all round, ability dealing with crosses and command of areas is weak as well.

[cambridgeshire canary 7,759]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

He's just poor all round, ability dealing with crosses and command of areas is weak as well.

Doesn't help that McGovern also looks invisible during set pieces and corners. Zero presence in the box you would hardly even notice hes there- That and most defenders look about a foot taller than him.

 

Krul on the other hand- That's a dominating presence. You can always see him and you know hes there.. And you can always hear him too.

 

Can not say the same for McGovern.

Edited December 3, 2020 by cambridgeshire canary

[Jim Smith 2,578]

27 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

The first two points I 100% agree with, the goalkeeper and left back flaws in the side were obvious chinks in our armour (hell missing bits of armour even) before a ball was kicked this season and the subject of much discussion on this forum over the summer.

The Hugill and Sinani points may be true in retrospect, but I don't recall any discussion on here on the topic prior to the season.

Hugill could have been a totally different story at this stage in the season if he had played any minutes with Quintilla at left back.

Sinani probably wouldn't be in the discussion either if it wasn't for our injury problems.

So hard to level too much criticism on Webber / Farke for those decisions.

Yes fair enough. The reason I refer to the Hugill signing and the jury being out is because i'm convinced that there surely must be more to his game that we've seen so far and that he will come good in time because if what we've seen so far is as good as it gets then you have to query the scouting/intelligence behind that signing. 

[Jim Smith 2,578]

16 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Doesn't help that McGovern also looks invisible during set pieces and corners. Zero presence in the box you would hardly even notice hes there- That and most defenders look about a foot taller than him.

 

Krul on the other hand- That's a dominating presence. You can always see him and you know hes there.. And you can always hear him too.

 

Can not say the same for McGovern.

I probably became a bit fixated about it but last night but I was watching him during every set peice and he was stuck on his line, blocked off by two attacking players and nowhere near the ball (or in a position to go for it) on every occasion. Yes it was a good ball in for their second goal (and generally they put good balls in) but should the keeper not be claiming or punching a cross that central and close in to his goal. On some occasions McGovern is almost behind the goal line. 

If i'm Shef Weds the game plan is obvious if he's in goal. Shoot on site when near the box and when further away for free kicks in our half or set pieces and get crosses into the box. Not exactly something that doesn;t come naturally to a Pulis side anyway!