And so it begins... Emi linked with Arsenal

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

2 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Buendia and Pukki are our (only) weapons. Offers would have to be huge to move either. Emi is special though and we will not keep him much longer regardless. 

Our hand may be forced on this one sadly. All you can do is get big money and hopefully delay until the summer. Arsenal would be a great move for him. 

From Emi’s (and his Agent’s) perspective ‘just’ getting promoted isn’t enough of a reason not to move. 

I’ll be delighted to be wrong. A wonderful player, almost certainly irreplaceable for Norwich. 

Parma

 

@king canary In Emi‘s case I‘m just not sure that we can make a good enough case (to him and his agent) that 'this time when we go up it will be different‘.

Parma

[hogesar 9,616]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Fulham held onto Sessengon and Leeds rejected bids from Spurs for Kalvin Phillips.

If you, or someone could give me just one example of a team top of the league selling their best player in January then I might agree. But I've asked the question multiple times and I am yet to have it answered.

To be fair you've kind of done me there with Fulham and Leeds so ima back out slowly....

Edited December 29, 2020 by hogesar

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Just now, hogesar said:

To be fair you've kind of done me there with Fulham and Leed so ima back out slowly....

We just don‘t have the novelty 'field of dreams‘ that those teams had @hogesar

Fulham threw crazy money at it via Billionaire owners and Leeds - like it or not - are a huge club where promise (and pressures to stay) are greater. 

Parma 

[king canary 7,578]

7 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

@king canary In Emi‘s case I‘m just not sure that we can make a good enough case (to him and his agent) that 'this time when we go up it will be different‘.

Parma

This may sound over dramatic but if that was the case then I think I'd be tempted to say I'm done with investing my time and energy into football.

At that moment the question is 'whats the point?' If all we can hope for ever is just to exist then why bother?

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

This may sound over dramatic but if that was the case then I think I'd be tempted to say I'm done with investing my time and energy into football.

At that moment the question is 'whats the point?' If all we can hope for ever is just to exist then why bother?

...and therein lies the issue with the structure...

Parma 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

...and therein lies the issue with the structure...

Parma 

Farke me!! Here we go again. Our 'structure issue' got Emi here.

FWIW, just looked at the Arsenal rumours in the Sun( I know, but theyll spout  any rumour , true or not) and no mention  of  EMI.

DONT  PANIC. YET. ...It's  a pointless exercise.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

20 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

@king canary In Emi‘s case I‘m just not sure that we can make a good enough case (to him and his agent) that 'this time when we go up it will be different‘.

Parma

I agree with you here, Parma, but only in the summer. I don't think our inability to persuade him to stay beyond the summer (even if we do go up) has any bearing on our ability to play 'hard ball' in January. Arsenal aren't getting relegated, and they aren't going to be winning anything; their season is dead. He's infinitely more valuable to us in the second half of the season than he would be to Arsenal, plus there's every chance that Arteta won't last until the summer anyway.

We stick to our guns in January, with a promise to Emi that we let him leave in the summer whether or not we are promoted.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

2 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I agree with you here, Parma, but only in the summer. I don't think our inability to persuade him to stay beyond the summer (even if we do go up) has any bearing on our ability to play 'hard ball' in January. Arsenal aren't getting relegated, and they aren't going to be winning anything; their season is dead. He's infinitely more valuable to us in the second half of the season than he would be to Arsenal, plus there's every chance that Arteta won't last until the summer anyway.

We stick to our guns in January, with a promise to Emi that we let him leave in the summer whether or not we are promoted.

I‘d go with that @Feedthewolf 

Parma 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

5 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

We stick to our guns in January, with a promise to Emi that we let him leave in the summer whether or not we are promoted

Is he really that keen to leave? Does anyone  have any reliable  source for this info. Or is it a classic case of getting  our knickers in a twist about something that  is not certain.

  As far as it goes , this is the plan in action, buy cheaply and wisely , sell at a good profit....at no point was ' panic like chickens with a fox in the coup' mentioned in any Club statement. 

There will always be more players.

[Clint 221]

Attended a virtual meeting with Webber a few weeks ago and he categorically said that no players will be sold in January unless it’s in our interests to do so. He also said no player within the first team squad has any desire to leave in January, effectively they are all now committed until the end of the season.

Obviously that doesn’t mean no player will be sold but I’m hopeful that unless a champions league team comes calling and offers silly money, the club and the players are happy to ride January out without too much going on.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

44 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Is he really that keen to leave? Does anyone  have any reliable  source for this info. Or is it a classic case of getting  our knickers in a twist about something that  is not certain.

  As far as it goes , this is the plan in action, buy cheaply and wisely , sell at a good profit....at no point was ' panic like chickens with a fox in the coup' mentioned in any Club statement. 

There will always be more players.

Indeed @wcorkcanary...that is the pressure on the system. That is what it must do. I agree it is our best (only) option.

I am not sure that I have ever seen a better player in a Norwich shirt. It is true we sold Maddison and found Emi. Let‘s hope we can do it again.

Holding on to our best players - our weapons that others will want and pay high for - at our ascendancy points will certainly test the structure....

...If outright sporting success is at the heart of the structure... Is it?

Parma

Edited December 29, 2020 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[hogesar 9,616]

13 minutes ago, Clint said:

Attended a virtual meeting with Webber a few weeks ago and he categorically said that no players will be sold in January unless it’s in our interests to do so. He also said no player within the first team squad has any desire to leave in January, effectively they are all now committed until the end of the season.

Obviously that doesn’t mean no player will be sold but I’m hopeful that unless a champions league team comes calling and offers silly money, the club and the players are happy to ride January out without too much going on.

Interesting to hear, thanks.

[king canary 7,578]

22 minutes ago, Clint said:

Attended a virtual meeting with Webber a few weeks ago and he categorically said that no players will be sold in January unless it’s in our interests to do so. He also said no player within the first team squad has any desire to leave in January, effectively they are all now committed until the end of the season.

Obviously that doesn’t mean no player will be sold but I’m hopeful that unless a champions league team comes calling and offers silly money, the club and the players are happy to ride January out without too much going on.

Really good to hear and I hope it bears out. Webber and the owners aren't stupid and will be well aware if we sold Emi in January, even for a good fee, and missed out on promotion they'd have a massive backlash to deal with.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Really good to hear and I hope it bears out. Webber and the owners aren't stupid and will be well aware if we sold Emi in January, even for a good fee, and missed out on promotion they'd have a massive backlash to deal with.

Yep, absolutely. The financial benefits of promotion are much, much greater than anything we could get for Max, Emi and Todd combined.

The difficulty comes in the summer; should we not be promoted, you'd expect all three of them to be on their way. If we do go up, it's a case of persuading those key players to have one more crack at the PL with us, with quality signings required to supplement them and give us the best chance of staying up.

Should we go up and those three players leave, we will surely spend bigger than at any time in our history to replace them and strengthen the squad. That comes with its own problems, as you have to bed new talents and new egos into a complex tactical system while hitting the ground running in a ruthlessly competitive league.

Whatever happens in the summer, we have to focus on promotion at all costs this season, and that means keeping this squad together in January.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Really good to hear and I hope it bears out. Webber and the owners aren't stupid and will be well aware if we sold Emi in January, even for a good fee, and missed out on promotion they'd have a massive backlash to deal with.

Only from those who demand an instant  return  to the ' big time'.....and by that I mean bigger  wages, egos and expectations.  Modern footy is designed to hoover up every available penny. . .. if the management deems it prudent to sell, I'll  back them. I've said it before that I for one wont be panicking if we dont go up this season ...if we continue  to build and strengthen  across the board, for that , player sales may be a necessity . ... it's just how it is...without tons of dosh. 

[king canary 7,578]

3 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Yep, absolutely. The financial benefits of promotion are much, much greater than anything we could get for Max, Emi and Todd combined.

The difficulty comes in the summer; should we not be promoted, you'd expect all three of them to be on their way. If we do go up, it's a case of persuading those key players to have one more crack at the PL with us, with quality signings required to supplement them and give us the best chance of staying up.

Should we go up and those three players leave, we will surely spend bigger than at any time in our history to replace them and strengthen the squad. That comes with its own problems, as you have to bed new talents and new egos into a complex tactical system while hitting the ground running in a ruthlessly competitive league.

Whatever happens in the summer, we have to focus on promotion at all costs this season, and that means keeping this squad together in January.

Yeah I agree totally- in the summer I'd expect them all to go if we don't go up and at that point I do agree we don't have the power to say no.

[king canary 7,578]

5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Only from those who demand an instant  return  to the ' big time'.....and by that I mean bigger  wages, egos and expectations.  Modern footy is designed to hoover up every available penny. . .. if the management deems it prudent to sell, I'll  back them. I've said it before that I for one wont be panicking if we dont go up this season ...if we continue  to build and strengthen  across the board, for that , player sales may be a necessity . ... it's just how it is...without tons of dosh. 

Its not about instant gratification, its about not actively hobbling your chances of promotion when top of the league halfway through the season.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

The ideal point at which one must pragmatically address one‘s structural issues is when one‘s star is in the ascendancy and the strategic position is strong.

Time for investment?

Parma

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

The ideal point at which one must pragmatically address one‘s structural issues is when one‘s star is in the ascendancy and the strategic position is strong.

Time for investment?

Parma

This model is working just fine at the moment, and the global economy hardly makes huge footballing takeovers an attractive proposition to investors. I'd like to see us get into the PL and stay there using this model if at all possible; we're lean, agile and better prepared than anyone outside the top flight to survive and prosper in the coming years.

If the right investment is available then of course it should be given due consideration, but why get greedy when you've achieved so much through being pragmatic and parsimonious?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

Its not about instant gratification, its about not actively hobbling your chances of promotion when top of the league halfway through the season.

Of course, which is why I'm wondering  why peeps  are getting het up over something that  a) hasnt happened  yet and b) has been said by Webber wont happen unless they deem it to be for the good of the Club. Either way, no amount of handwringing will change what happens . 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

This may sound over dramatic but if that was the case then I think I'd be tempted to say I'm done with investing my time and energy into football.

At that moment the question is 'whats the point?' If all we can hope for ever is just to exist then why bother?

Are you talking about being a football fan or life KC? 😃

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

8 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

This model is working just fine at the moment, and the global economy hardly makes huge footballing takeovers an attractive proposition to investors. I'd like to see us get into the PL and stay there using this model if at all possible; we're lean, agile and better prepared than anyone outside the top flight to survive and prosper in the coming years.

If the right investment is available then of course it should be given due consideration, but why get greedy when you've achieved so much through being pragmatic and parsimonious?

Our present route is not quick enough  for  some Wolfo. I dont include myself  in  that. Would I welcome the right kind of investment. .of course, it would be stupid not to. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

I expect Arsenal (and a few other big clubs here and there) will already have studied every dot and comma of Emi's play. It's what we do now as well apparently. The figures have to add up to make the decision about whether, when or what to bid.

Buendia's cochonnes will have been duly noted and they will be an important factor in any decision making, with some more than others at least.

Farke handles the player exceptionally well, imo, which may in part account for his improvement since arriving at Carrow Road. He might not be that other manager's cup of tea.

Isn't Arteta regimental? Or. worse still, the opposite of that?

Edited December 29, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[king canary 7,578]

6 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Of course, which is why I'm wondering  why peeps  are getting het up over something that  a) hasnt happened  yet and b) has been said by Webber wont happen unless they deem it to be for the good of the Club. Either way, no amount of handwringing will change what happens . 

Likely because its a Norwich city forum and we're discussing rumours linking a norwich city player with leaving Norwich city?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Likely because its a Norwich city forum and we're discussing rumours linking a norwich city player with leaving Norwich city?

I am discussing this too, but as no one has yet posted any definitive  link to anything solid, we are in fact discussing  a Twitter  rumour.  I'll back out at this point as my tolerance for discussing the ( rumour based)hypothetical  is minimal.  

No way should we accept  15 million  except if previously  agreed with the player...which is a possibility, nothing more.  If you have anything substantive  to the contrary , please share. If Webber says the players are committed for the season, that's good enough for me.  Call me a trusting fool if you wish, it bothers me not. We either trust the management  or we dont...at which point I agree with the notion of " why bother ".

[GJP 79]

1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

I am not sure that I have ever seen a better player in a Norwich shirt. 

Concur.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Bit disingenuous @wcorkcanary... you know that @king canary intends if Buendia leaves - and under whatever circumstances - not the Twitter rumour per se.

It is entirely logical to discuss it as Buendia may (or may not) be irreplaceable. 

The issue with the structure is live because the slow grow may well not be quick enough for the best players (let alone fans).

The structure can build cutely in the Championship, but success shows it up.

Players will stay for 'fields of dreams‘ though we are not promising that (as you argue perhaps quite fairly and honestly).

Football is however, what it is. If Buendia stays in the face of high level demand, great, we are progressing.

If he leaves we have money and need to replace him. Could we?

With more investment such issues are less likely to arise (as the Fulham and Leeds scenarios show).

An eternally successful carousel of low cost replacements for shining top level stars is wonderful. Wonderful....✨

Parma 

nota bene: As an investor - if such funds could ensure that ’field of dreams‘ players buy in and stay - then Return likelihood is much increased. We might be - in this moment - as attractive an investment opportunity as we have ever been. Any calls?

Edited December 29, 2020 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

Of course, which is why I'm wondering  why peeps  are getting het up over something that  a) hasnt happened  yet and b) has been said by Webber wont happen unless they deem it to be for the good of the Club. Either way, no amount of handwringing will change what happens . 

“For the good of the Club” is the perfect opt out . If Arsenal offer £30m and  the player £70k per week for 4 years then “for the good of the club” he will likely go because the momentum will be behind the deal. 

Emi’s absence from the team in the window  suggested he wanted to go . Farke said as much . The offers didn’t come in , or at least weren’t at a level where the club felt acceptable. 
 

if the offer does come in however ....
 

I just hope this doesn’t all result in Emi’s head being turned again. We effectively lost him at the start of the season and the results reflected this. 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

24 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

“For the good of the Club” is the perfect opt out . If Arsenal offer £30m and  the player £70k per week for 4 years then “for the good of the club” he will likely go because the momentum will be behind the deal. 

Emi’s absence from the team in the window  suggested he wanted to go . Farke said as much . The offers didn’t come in , or at least weren’t at a level where the club felt acceptable. 
 

if the offer does come in however ....
 

I just hope this doesn’t all result in Emi’s head being turned again. We effectively lost him at the start of the season and the results reflected this. 

...and that‘s the reality...

Buendia (and Pukki) are the weapons. You can buy good players, buying weapons - let alone making them - is a different thing entirely. 

Godfrey is a wonderful player, too good for us, too much potential, ideal for a mutually- beneficial deal. The structure working well.

A Buendia is a rare gem. And a weapon. Norwich will never have many weapons. They are the difference between success and failure.

You need a lot of Money and a lot of good players to amortise for one or two powerful weapons. 

We are going into a different world (or as @king canary puts it ’what‘s the point?‘.)..the field of dreams must be credible to retain the best for long enough.

It is a fair question to ask if you can ever keep a Buendia mind you...That will be the presentation.

We are lucky that his flaws have kept him here long enough - and hopefully as @Feedthewolf has said - until the summer. 

Maybe Webber and Farke can then sell him the dream a little longer. As Cantwell (’s agent) knows however, hot tickets may only be on offer once..everybody has a job to do...

Parma 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

[sgncfc 1,221]

2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Indeed @wcorkcanary...that is the pressure on the system. That is what it must do. I agree it is our best (only) option.

I am not sure that I have ever seen a better player in a Norwich shirt. It is true we sold Maddison and found Emi. Let‘s hope we can do it again.

Holding on to our best players - our weapons that others will want and pay high for - at our ascendancy points will certainly test the structure....

...If outright sporting success is at the heart of the structure... Is it?

Parma

I do question this "Emi is irreplaceable" stuff. Go back far enough and we never replaced Martin Peters. But we've had loads of supposedly irreplaceable players over the years, including a few recently (Ashton, Huckerby, Holt, Hoolahan, Maddison etc) and they've all been replaced. Buendia is in their league but not the best of them. 

Simple fact is that if Arsenal put £30m+ on the table for Emi he'll be gone; doesn't matter what time of the year it is or how we're doing. We could be top 6 in the Premier League and he'd still go to Arsenal.

But Arsenal won't do that in January, because it's too big a gamble for where they currently are. The summer, whatever league we end up in, is likely to see Buendia and Aarons move on I suspect.