Klopp's rant

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

On 28/11/2020 at 14:59, TheGunnShow said:

He's not wrong. A game as arduous as football, at the intensity they play at, with the physical contact in it... it was absolutely bound to happen.

Anyone with a competitive background in sport could see this coming three miles off. I could see it with my distance-running background and we don't even have the same physical contact. Recovery is VERY important, and in this condensed season, players and teams are not getting it.

He isn’t wrong but it would be far more credible if he mentioned it when he had just won , or Henderson to say VAR is ****e    after they have just had a goal given for them.  To moan at the BT reporter was a bit stupid - the Premier League are 100% money driven and it’s their fault they have agreed to the condensed format this year . 
 

Football understands recovery . But money overcomes everything . Until it doesn’t suit a particular club in a particular situation . I like Klopp but he looked a berk in this instance - I suspect history between him and the BT reporter ? 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Graham Paddons Beard

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

18 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Can't really agree with too much of that, simply as the fixture congestion is even worse this season compared to last. 10K's not really a nip round either. In fact, I find 5K harder than half-marathon as that's much more taxing on the cardiovascular system than a half-marathon, which is more about pure endurance rather than dragging your cardio system kicking and screaming along. 10K actually sounds about right, if not a little low for a central midfielder. Sure, they'll walk and jog a fair bit, but you'll know from interval training how hard that can be when sudden, unexpected sprints come around.

Also, no-one said it's too much for a 26-year-old player, but the sheer grind of it with games coming so thick and fast is. The bit where I do fully agree is your second paragraph - the important thing is indeed to look after yourself and recover well. What I'm saying is this: there's no way there is enough time to recover if players are expected to turn it on week in, week out and they're clocking up three games every week, practically every week for several in a row. Inadequate recovery is a huge contributory factor (and I'm a fit 40 y/o - vets football for us is O35s) in such muscle injuries. Chuck in an abbreviated pre-season to fit everything in, and you have the perfect storm we have here.

I did say I preferred distance to pace. And what you are forgetting is that its five nights week training with a race at the weekend. Home from work and a late evening meal. So the grind is there for us amateurs.

And when are they playing three times a week? Surely its two.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I did say I preferred distance to pace. And what you are forgetting is that its five nights week training with a race at the weekend. Home from work and a late evening meal. So the grind is there for us amateurs.

And when are they playing three times a week? Surely its two.

Some grind, sure. A little speedwork goes a long way though. I remember when I PBed my half-marathon time in Poland and did 1hr 43, and I reckon 70% of my mileage was actually at recovery pace, so not even putting in that much of a shunt, particularly in cardiovascular terms. Pro footballers are basically doing very prolonged interval sessions in matches as opposed to steady-state (granted, you're right re. hills and especially if it's hill sprints, specific hill training, or muddy cross-country work in terms of variance though, as that's more pure power).

If they're playing Saturday, mid-week, Saturday, that's three in a week for me, provided the two Saturday games start at the same time, or the second one starts earlier than the first one. Klopp was definitely commenting on that shortened recovery period, hence his complaint about getting the midday / 12:30 slot after midweek European games.

 

1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

He isn’t wrong but it would be far more credible if he mentioned it when he had just won , or Henderson to say VAR is ****e    after they have just had a goal given for them.  To moan at the BT reporter was a bit stupid - the Premier League are 100% money driven and it’s their fault they have agreed to the condensed format this year . 
 

Football understands recovery . But money overcomes everything . Until it doesn’t suit a particular club in a particular situation . I like Klopp but he looked a berk in this instance - I suspect history between him and the BT reporter ? 

First three words are all we need in the grand scheme of things, basically. The notion of credibility is basically letting our own biases and tribal affiliations get in the way, but I certainly agree that it is the fault of the Premier League and also that money overcomes everything.

[Gordon Bennett 780]

He went OTT yesterday but I do agree and have sympathy with him. 

[Chelm Canary 404]

I remember when they beat us 5-4 a few seasons ago. They were 4-3 up in 90+ minutes and he was ranting and raving at the 4th official for the final whistle. 

We equalised and he was absolutely livid. The ref then allows the game to continue for a few more minutes and Liverpool score the winner. 

Cue scenes of Klopp running around the pitch at Carrow road like an absolute lunatic. It was disrespectful in my opinion. 

All the decisions are correct once they go your way right? 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Chelm Canary

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Some grind, sure. A little speedwork goes a long way though. I remember when I PBed my half-marathon time in Poland and did 1hr 43, and I reckon 70% of my mileage was actually at recovery pace, so not even putting in that much of a shunt, particularly in cardiovascular terms. Pro footballers are basically doing very prolonged interval sessions in matches as opposed to steady-state (granted, you're right re. hills and especially if it's hill sprints, specific hill training, or muddy cross-country work in terms of variance though, as that's more pure power).

If they're playing Saturday, mid-week, Saturday, that's three in a week for me, provided the two Saturday games start at the same time, or the second one starts earlier than the first one. Klopp was definitely commenting on that shortened recovery period, hence his complaint about getting the midday / 12:30 slot after midweek European games.

 

First three words are all we need in the grand scheme of things, basically. The notion of credibility is basically letting our own biases and tribal affiliations get in the way, but I certainly agree that it is the fault of the Premier League and also that money overcomes everything.

When did we start having two Saturdays in a week? That is being obtuse to prove a point.

70% of a half is only 10 miles and that is no more than a Wednesday night club run. I don't want to get into an argument about running because some are out to win some run for enjoyment.

Enjoy your running. I wish I still was but Prostate Cancer put and to it and I cannot lose the weight I have put on to enjoy running. Can knock out the odd 5 miles but I might as well walk that.

Used to Hash as well until the group got too unwieldy and we had to keep stopping and waiting for the dog walkers in the group.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

15 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

When did we start having two Saturdays in a week? That is being obtuse to prove a point.

70% of a half is only 10 miles and that is no more than a Wednesday night club run. I don't want to get into an argument about running because some are out to win some run for enjoyment.

Enjoy your running. I wish I still was but Prostate Cancer put and to it and I cannot lose the weight I have put on to enjoy running. Can knock out the odd 5 miles but I might as well walk that.

Used to Hash as well until the group got too unwieldy and we had to keep stopping and waiting for the dog walkers in the group.

 

70% of my training mileage, not the half-marathon distance. Since getting back on the wagon after hip flexor / IT band troubles (which makes me wonder what kind of issues Cantwell's got going on in his hip, as both of those are overuse injuries at their core) I do most of my training mileage at recovery pace and no faster. If I want to go fast, that's what intervals or speed sessions are for.

As soon as I start aiming for more intervals though, I'll start tightening up and becoming more injury prone. Only so many sports massages / cold showers etc. you can do. You'll know yourself - in cardio terms you recover pretty quickly, but it sits in your legs after a bit.

Main thing is you beat the old C though, that's good to hear.

[chicken 2,604]

Tbh I am absolutely fed up with the "we play too many games" moaning from the premier league lot that do it every so often.

I did a bit of maths a few months ago, and even if your team is in Europe and the Champions League, you still start off with less games on paper than a Championship or lower side at the start of a season.

The funds from either of those competitions give you the ability to have a much stronger squad. Shakiri at Liverpool, for example, would be an almost nailed on regular starter for a good half of the premier league at least.

The 5 subs thing and Solskjar's moan about playing Wednesday then Saturday lunchtime... Boo hoo. I'm with Wilder. It is a huge advantage to the top sides, less so to the less well off clubs who can't bring on players of that quality etc.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

70% of my training mileage, not the half-marathon distance. Since getting back on the wagon after hip flexor / IT band troubles (which makes me wonder what kind of issues Cantwell's got going on in his hip, as both of those are overuse injuries at their core) I do most of my training mileage at recovery pace and no faster. If I want to go fast, that's what intervals or speed sessions are for.

As soon as I start aiming for more intervals though, I'll start tightening up and becoming more injury prone. Only so many sports massages / cold showers etc. you can do. You'll know yourself - in cardio terms you recover pretty quickly, but it sits in your legs after a bit.

Main thing is you beat the old C though, that's good to hear.

 

Worst injury was a fractured pelvis after 28K in the Paris Marathon. But after spending a fortune on a hotel off the Champs Elysees, and 15 euros a pint, I was going to pull out and jogged the rest of it.

That is one reason I believe humans and animals can endure hardship and pain as well as tiredness if we steel the mind.

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

On 30/11/2020 at 20:06, keelansgrandad said:

 

Worst injury was a fractured pelvis after 28K in the Paris Marathon. But after spending a fortune on a hotel off the Champs Elysees, and 15 euros a pint, I was going to pull out and jogged the rest of it.

That is one reason I believe humans and animals can endure hardship and pain as well as tiredness if we steel the mind.

I largely agree with the last bit but for us as distance runners, the aim's to finish - we can dial the intensity back a little as we essentially determine the pace. Doing it with a ****ed pelvis is damned good going though so hats off on that.

Had to chuckle at that re. spending the fortune on the hotel etc. Had the same in Dresden in 2018. I'd picked up an old nerve injury in my calf two weeks earlier visiting friends in another part of Germany and it still wasn't right in Dresden, and tbh I didn't think I'd get round. Just put compression socks on instead and told myself "two hours for the half will do" and take it from there. When you've paid for the five-star hotel with the Canaletto view of the Altstadt, the train tickets from Berlin, the flights, etc. then you're going... (shame there were bloody cranes everywhere - Dresden's a lovely city).

A footballer, if an opponent scoots past him, can take his time, but he'll get castigated. They still have to go hard. There's only so much steeling the mind you can do under those circumstances before the body says "wait, wait, wait!" 

So I agree there's an ability to endure it, but I would also readily say that's exactly when the injuries come in droves.