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*****Officiall Match Thread v Coventry*****

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

It's all fine.

I'm happy (as ever) to apologise for my view of the match that caused offence. 

It is just a view and it may sound strange to day this but my views are quite unimportant even to me!

I just wanted to clarify I wasn't being disrespectful to Farke. If we were talking about a manager I strongly disliked and actually disrespected it was Roeder. 

Don’t apologise unless you think you were wrong. Lots of people share that opinion, I just happen to think they’re wrong and am happy to discuss it. I’m not offended by anything said on here, as you say it’s all unimportant.

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12 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

No. You are blinkered in this. Vrancic and Stiepermann were doing nothing. If the best strikers we have in the U23s cannot come on and do more than they were doing in the last 20 minutes then frankly we may as well release them now.

i wasn’t expecting a match winning cameo from a 18 or 19 year old but we needed someone who could run off the shoulder of their defence abs give them some movement to worry about.

i think he got it wrong today (and with not taking off our Crown Jewels early enough on Tuesday. Farke us a great coach but the timing of subs when the momentum shifts in games remains his Achilles heel. 

I'm blinkered? You're the one saying our head coach who has proven you wrong time and time again - might I add - should have brought on some players of which you have presumably little to no knowledge on their attributes, strengths and weaknesses because they'd have done more than a couple of our first teamers.

Football at this level isn't as basic as I think you want it to be. If every team who's 1-0 up could chuck on a couple of academy players and see out a game we would be seeing debuts handed to young players in this league every single game day. A young player might provide energy- they might also make silly fouls to invite pressure, lose shape chasing the wrong balls, not hold positions that our first team players etc are expecting. The list is endless. 

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Just now, Fiery Zac said:

Don’t apologise unless you think you were wrong. Lots of people share that opinion, I just happen to think they’re wrong and am happy to discuss it. I’m not offended by anything said on here, as you say it’s all unimportant.

I don't mind if I'm right or wrong.

It as just a view. Nothing more.

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Mark Robins played a blinder.

He kept a couple of his heavy guns back, (knowing that Farke was limited in that respect) and added to them with  his full quota of subs to win a point against a tired team.

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I don't mind if I'm right or wrong.

It as just a view. Nothing more.

You’re married aren’t you ? 

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2 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I don't mind if I'm right or wrong.

It as just a view. Nothing more.

Just as long as you're in a frame of mind you approve of before it's posted, right? 

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1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said:

You’re married aren’t you ? 

Hahaha no reactions to give FF! Seen right through the home dynamic😆

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2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Just as long as you're in a frame of mind you approve of before it's posted, right? 

Not following this Dan? What do you mean?

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6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm blinkered? You're the one saying our head coach who has proven you wrong time and time again - might I add - should have brought on some players of which you have presumably little to no knowledge on their attributes, strengths and weaknesses because they'd have done more than a couple of our first teamers.

Football at this level isn't as basic as I think you want it to be. If every team who's 1-0 up could chuck on a couple of academy players and see out a game we would be seeing debuts handed to young players in this league every single game day. A young player might provide energy- they might also make silly fouls to invite pressure, lose shape chasing the wrong balls, not hold positions that our first team players etc are expecting. The list is endless. 

I think this is the point you seem to be missing - I can’t see how replacing a spent Stiepi for 10 minutes would have done any more harm than keeping him on, but certainly could have been of benefit.  No one is suggesting that we should have brought 3 of them on, playing in positions they aren’t used to.  In today’s game, us keeping possession in their half a little bit more could easily have seen us see the game out.  

As it goes, we didn’t make the sub, and didn’t see out the game; we move on. 

Edited by Branston Pickle

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29 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

My frustration was with the post that was and is becoming all to common an opinion but that I believe to be untrue and disrespectful to a manager that deserves more considering what he’s dealing with and what he’s achieving. 

Sonyc is one of the nicest posters on here. He was not being 'disrespectful' to Farke in offering his opinion. He's never disrespectful to anyone...even when they deserve it.

OTBC 

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17 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Not following this Dan? What do you mean?

Mistook you for sgncfc, I humbly apologise (as that's quite an offensive thing to do!) 

It actually looks like we've both fallen foul of this unseemly idea that you must either be completely pro or anti something. 

For example, I think Farke is a great manager, never been one of the people to call for his head. But I also think he completely cocked up today and cost us points. 

For people like @hogesar this is far too nuanced; Farke is either the infallible messiah or the antichrist. You either think he's 100% right 100% of the time or you're a stupid plumber from Sprowston. Or something like that. 

Edited by canarydan23

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7 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I think this is the point you seem to be missing - I can’t see how replacing a spent Stiepi for 10 minutes would have done any more harm than keeping him on, but certainly could have been of benefit.  No one is suggesting that we should have brought 3 of them on, playing in positions they aren’t used to.  In today’s game, us keeping possession in their half a little bit more could easily have seen us see the game out.  

As it goes, we didn’t make the sub, and didn’t see out the game; we move on. 

You say you can't see how it could have done any harm bringing them on, I literally gave multiple examples as to what can and does happen when young players who aren't ready come on in pressure situations. 

Of course they may have risen to the occasion, worked hard, not committed silly fouls or lost concentration. But which person is best placed to make an educated guess on that? I'd say its our head coach with a proven record of integrating, playing, coaching and improving our young players. Not Barry from Sprowston who took a break from plumbing to point out where Farke went wrong.

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18 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm blinkered? You're the one saying our head coach who has proven you wrong time and time again - might I add - should have brought on some players of which you have presumably little to no knowledge on their attributes, strengths and weaknesses because they'd have done more than a couple of our first teamers.

Football at this level isn't as basic as I think you want it to be. If every team who's 1-0 up could chuck on a couple of academy players and see out a game we would be seeing debuts handed to young players in this league every single game day. A young player might provide energy- they might also make silly fouls to invite pressure, lose shape chasing the wrong balls, not hold positions that our first team players etc are expecting. The list is endless. 

How has Farke “proven me wrong” exactly? I’ve never been in the Farke out camp (other than perhaps after that defeat to Leeds a few years ago when I said I would be ok if he left). I’ve consistently said I think he’s a good coach. But he’s never got substitutions consistently right and whilst he’s been a bit more bold and proactive and has improved a bit this season I think the last two games he’s got it wrong and I also think his tendency to run players into the ground  at times (rather than rotate or take them off when the opportunity arises) does contribute a bit to our injury issues. 
 

we disagree on this, that’s fine, but the whole “Farke is manager so I think he knows better than you,” line is just lazy.

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1 minute ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

 

Sonyc is one of the nicest posters on here. He was not being 'disrespectful' to Farke in offering his opinion. He's never disrespectful to anyone...even when they deserve it.

OTBC 

Fair enough. I was simply responding to the post, not thinking about the poster. As for the context of the actual post (which feels years ago) we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think it was poor game management, just fine margins and these things happen. Onto the next game. 
 

OTBC

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54 minutes ago, hogesar said:

WHY DIDNT FARKE BRING ON ALL THESE PLAYERS IVE NEVER SEEN PLAY AND KNOW NOTHING ABOUT BUT WOULD CLEARLY HAVE DONE BETTER THAN THE FIRST TEAM PLAYERS WE DID PLAY BECAUSE WE CONCEDED A GOAL.

Thats genuinely how stupid and naive the complaints on here are.

Well said Hoggy. Exactly this!
 

Farke knows what level of quality he had available on the bench far more than posters who probably have never seen them play at all. There’s a reason why they haven’t featured to date and that is that Farke doesn’t feel they are ready.

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Just now, Hairy Canary said:

Well said Hoggy. Exactly this!
 

Farke knows what level of quality he had available on the bench far more than posters who probably have never seen them play at all. There’s a reason why they haven’t featured to date and that is that Farke doesn’t feel they are ready.

Satisfy my curiosity, how do you marry this idea that coaches know their players intimately and are therefore beyond reproach with their decisions with the fact that the greatest British manager of the last few decades bought and gave 20 appearances to Eric Djemba-Djemba? 

Great managers make mistakes that cost points. 

We witnessed it this afternoon. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

How has Farke “proven me wrong” exactly? I’ve never been in the Farke out camp (other than perhaps after that defeat to Leeds a few years ago when I said I would be ok if he left). I’ve consistently said I think he’s a good coach. But he’s never got substitutions consistently right and whilst he’s been a bit more bold and proactive and has improved a bit this season I think the last two games he’s got it wrong and I also think his tendency to run players into the ground  at times (rather than rotate or take them off when the opportunity arises) does contribute a bit to our injury issues. 
 

we disagree on this, that’s fine, but the whole “Farke is manager so I think he knows better than you,” line is just lazy.

That's just your OPINION!!!

He made the obvious and sensible substitution today by bringing on Zimmermann. Funnily enough we conceded just a short time after the substitution had been made. The obvious conclusion to draw from this is that it was a mistake to make the substitution (that would be ridiculous by the way, but less ridiculous than suggesting that things would have been different if we'd brought a youngster on for Stiepi up front). 

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1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

Satisfy my curiosity, how do you marry this idea that coaches know their players intimately and are therefore beyond reproach with their decisions with the fact that the greatest British manager of the last few decades bought and gave 20 appearances to Eric Djemba-Djemba? 

Great managers make mistakes that cost points. 

We witnessed it this afternoon. 

 

DF acknowledged as great

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3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Satisfy my curiosity, how do you marry this idea that coaches know their players intimately and are therefore beyond reproach with their decisions with the fact that the greatest British manager of the last few decades bought and gave 20 appearances to Eric Djemba-Djemba? 

Great managers make mistakes that cost points. 

We witnessed it this afternoon. 

 

I don’t know think that and neither did I say it. I said that Farke knew more about the players on the bench than posters who have never seen them play before. With respect, without knowing the players abilities you can’t possibly know that there was a mistake can you?

Edited by Hairy Canary

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8 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Satisfy my curiosity, how do you marry this idea that coaches know their players intimately and are therefore beyond reproach with their decisions with the fact that the greatest British manager of the last few decades bought and gave 20 appearances to Eric Djemba-Djemba? 

Great managers make mistakes that cost points. 

We witnessed it this afternoon. 

 

In you OPINION. 

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Anyway, who was that geezer who was not conforming to social distancing and intruding in our Charismatic Club Matriarch's personal space at the game and was featured on ifollow?......

A Cessna Citation pilot/Limo Chauffeur?....Delia's Kevin Costner type Bodyguard?.....A Stinkin' rich Oil Baron from Texas?.....Her and MWJs  personal Butler? (Not the Radio Norfolk's Rob).....I reckon a Chauffeur....

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3 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

I don’t know think that and neither did I say it. I said that Farke knew more about the players on the bench than posters who have never seen them play before. With respect, without knowing the players abilities you can’t possibly know that there was a mistake can you?

No, and you can't possibly know there wasn't. 

So discussion forums exist. 

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13 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Well said Hoggy. Exactly this!
 

Farke knows what level of quality he had available on the bench far more than posters who probably have never seen them play at all. There’s a reason why they haven’t featured to date and that is that Farke doesn’t feel they are ready.

Could you be implying that a manager who spends most days a week all day long with his players knows said players better than us, a bunch of people who once or twice a week observe only a few of the teams players for 90 minutes from our sofas through a screen?

 

How could you ever imply such a thing? 😉

Edited by cambridgeshire canary
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15 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Mistook you for sgncfc, I humbly apologise (as that's quite an offensive thing to do!) 

It actually looks like we've both fallen foul of this unseemly idea that you must either be completely pro or anti something. 

For example, I think Farke is a great manager, never been one of the people to call for his head. But I also think he completely cocked up today and cost us points. 

For people like @hogesar this is far too nuanced; Farke is either the infallible messiah or the antichrist. You either think he's 100% right 100% of the time or you're a stupid plumber from Sprowston. Or something like that. 

I think Farke has made great subs this season in the main and has been proactive. A big contrast with previous seasons. My disappointment was that that game was so winnable, right to the end. It need a change to affect the dynamic because Coventry were just coming at us in the last 15. It may not have worked and no pointed fingers from me for trying. It's not making that decision.

Of course he knows more than me! We were all watching at home and could just see it all unfolding. Stiepermann was blowing. Perhaps as a manager you don't pick up those things from the dug out that the cameras pick out? Though I doubt it. He was walking back after each attacking phase. I don't want to single him out either ...he had put in a shift out of position. 

Anyway, ultimately, it is what it is eh.

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1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

No, and you can't possibly know there wasn't. 

So discussion forums exist. 

Well exactly. But then I haven’t come on here saying there was a mistake that coast us points without knowing the players abilities have I?

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4 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

That's just your OPINION!!!

He made the obvious and sensible substitution today by bringing on Zimmermann. Funnily enough we conceded just a short time after the substitution had been made. The obvious conclusion to draw from this is that it was a mistake to make the substitution (that would be ridiculous by the way, but less ridiculous than suggesting that things would have been different if we'd brought a youngster on for Stiepi up front). 

I'm not sure bring Zimmerman on has been the right substitution in either of our two games. we conceded goals almost immediately on both occasions. The previously fairly solid looking defence was unsettled on both occasions. Zimemrman himself was at fault for Stoke's second goal where he failed to jump or get the right side of the man he was marking.

The obvious substitution today was to bring on some fresh legs up front or instead of Vrancic when it was obvious that both were shot and neither was contributing towards the end of the game.

It was only seen as the obvious substitution because he is a "senior pro" but thats the point. Farke should have been looking at the positions that needed changing rather than solely who the player(s) available are. If you are good enough to play for Norwich City U23s then you should be good enough to manage to put a shift in and make a nuisance of yourself for 15 minutes against a Conventry side comprised mainly of players who were in league 1 last season. 

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12 minutes ago, Hairy Canary said:

Well said Hoggy. Exactly this!
 

Farke knows what level of quality he had available on the bench far more than posters who probably have never seen them play at all. There’s a reason why they haven’t featured to date and that is that Farke doesn’t feel they are ready.

But its not exactly this is it? Because NOT ONE PERSON has said we should have brought on 5 untested kids have?  All the likes of Branston have said is why when Steipermann was clearly a spent force in this game was ONE OF THEM not worth throwing on for 10 minutes, they simply couldn't have contributed less than Marco did as a striker.

I'm not exactly sure why people aren't understanding this?

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2 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Could you be implying that a manager who spends most days a week all day long with his players knows said players better than us, a bunch of people who once or twice a week observe only a few of the teams players for 90 minutes from our sofas through a screen?

 

How could you ever imply such a thing? 😉

Makes you wonder why a manager ever gets sacked, doesn't it? 

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1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

Well exactly. But then I haven’t come on here saying there was a mistake that coast us points without knowing the players abilities have I?

But are you saying there wasn't a mistake that cost us points without knowing the players abilities?

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Can I officially say the official thread has got boring now? We seem to be largely arguing about arguing as the relevant points either side of the argument were made several pages ago.

 

In my OPINION.

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