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Jim Smith

Why did he not take Pukki and Emi off as soon as we went 3 up?

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Ok Emi was silly to get carried away but you could see that red coming and Farke should have too.

now we hear Farke saying Pukki had a fitness issue when he came off. How costly could that end up being if he’s injured. 

we rarely, if ever, get a three goal cushion in games. Why on Earth were they both not sat safely on the bench by the time that red card happened. 

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5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Ok Emi was silly to get carried away but you could see that red coming and Farke should have too.

now we hear Farke saying Pukki had a fitness issue when he came off. How costly could that end up being if he’s injured. 

we rarely, if ever, get a three goal cushion in games. Why on Earth were they both not sat safely on the bench by the time that red card happened. 

'Why did he not take Pukki off?'

 

'Then he took Pukki off'

 

Hold up

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Yup, even the commentator mentioned that the ref was getting exasperated with Buendia.  Then he makes that crazy high kick.

At least we still won the game though.

 

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7 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Text from a friend at 3-0

 

Get Emi off now! 

Zimmermann was stripped off ready to come on when Buendia got himself sent off. In the end Zimmermann came on for Pukki, but it's possible he was going to come on for Emi. 

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Obviously can't blame Df for not seeing into the future (I know you aren't saying that) but I do agree. Three nil up. Game should of been that. 

Had EMI or pukki got a crunching tackle on them that could of been a huge blow. 

Would of been ideal to through that Dickson peters on. No pressure for him and he would of been dead hungry and like lightening. Kept their defenders worried 

Buy hey ho. He may have to play now...

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1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

'Why did he not take Pukki off?'

 

'Then he took Pukki off'

 

Hold up

No why did he not take Pukki off at 3-0 when we had 11 players.

or Emi off when he started flying into unnecessary tackles and got his yellow.

all of us watching it said he needed to get him off before he got a red.

instead  he took off josh Martin who has hardly played all season so didn’t need the rest. 

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18 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Ok Emi was silly to get carried away but you could see that red coming and Farke should have too.

now we hear Farke saying Pukki had a fitness issue when he came off. How costly could that end up being if he’s injured. 

we rarely, if ever, get a three goal cushion in games. Why on Earth were they both not sat safely on the bench by the time that red card happened. 

I am guessing one of them was coming off for Zimbo, but given we don't exactly have an excess of strikers at the moment you can understand why Farke was reticent to yank both of them off at the same time.

Indeed, if you look at the last 25 minutes when we had nobody capable of occupying the Stoke back 4 I think you can probably answer you own question.

Still, I suspect that had Farke taken both off and we had gone on to draw or lose the game you would probably be criticising him anyway Jim for taking off two players who had been exceptional up until that point. As an actual manager who has to make decisions under pressure he does not really have the benefit of hindsight we all do.

Given we have taken 23 from the last 27 points, sitting top, coming off the back of a horrendous season, perhaps best to give Farke the benefit of the doubt and concede it's not always as cut and dried as we fans like to make out.

Edited by Ian
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Just now, Ian said:

I am guessing one of them was coming off for Zimbo, but given we don't exactly have an excess of strikers at the moment you can understand why Farke was reticent to yank both of them off at the same time.

Indeed, if you look at the last 25 minutes when we had nobody capable of occupying the Stoke back 4 I think you can probably answer you own question.

Still, I suspect that had Farke taken both off and we had gone on to draw or lose the game you would probably be criticising Farke anyway Jim.

Given we have taken 23 from the last 27 points, sitting top, coming off the back of a horrendous season, perhaps best to give Farke the benefit of the doubt and concede it's not always as cut and dried as we fans like to make out.

We had nobody to occupy the back four because we were down to ten men and sitting deep. At 11 v 11 he could have taken both off and given Dickson Peters a run out up front. 

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I love the desperation from some posters to try and claw back some egotistical credit that they know better than Farke when he proves them wrong week after week after week.

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It's a weird one tonight, it's a win that feels likes a defeat at the moment! Always easy to call things in hindsight and I'd imagine Zimmermann was about to come on for Emi. With games coming thick and fast, I think it's time to reintroduce the two lost boys into the squad. 

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I don't subscribe that Emi was going loopy. He had been chopped to death the whole game with little or no protection from the ref.

His high kick was hardly deliberate dangerous play. He instinctively put his foot up to the ball.

Hindsight is wonderful and always correct of course. 

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I’m presuming that with our injury list, taking Pukki and Emi off early would have required Daniel Farke and Chris Domogolla to fill in and attempt to see the game out.

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I’d have not started with either of them - they could easily get injured or sent off, so best not play them at all.🤔😕

its easy to make calls after the event.

Edited by Branston Pickle
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25 minutes ago, Matt Juler said:

It's a weird one tonight, it's a win that feels likes a defeat at the moment! Always easy to call things in hindsight and I'd imagine Zimmermann was about to come on for Emi. With games coming thick and fast, I think it's time to reintroduce the two lost boys into the squad. 

Scraping the three points was by far the most important thing. We are on a real roll results wise and play two lesser teams next. Even down to the bare bones we should have enough to give Coventry and Luton plenty of problems. We just have to scrap for every point until January when we should have reinforcements coming in.

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58 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We had nobody to occupy the back four because we were down to ten men and sitting deep. At 11 v 11 he could have taken both off and given Dickson Peters a run out up front. 

This is real life, not Football Manager.

Away at a difficult ground against the best form team in the division, no manager is going to take off his best two forward players with the majority of the half to go, and replace them with one or more untested players on the proviso that we are three goals up so have the game in the bag. Just never going to happen.

It is, of course, unfortunate things worked out as they did, but it's embarrassingly ridiculous to criticise Farke in hindsight given our recent record.

 

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There was a game last year- it was over that grizzly december period- where we were ahead and Farke took Pukki off to try and tighten up. We lost any form of out-ball and ended up losing points from a winning position.

Rock, meet hard place. 

I think we got very lucky tonight, managing to save Pukki from injury and retaining the lead. I'd hate to be the guy trying to work out how to maintain a promotion charge on 14 professionals with walking wounded- so Farke has my support wholeheartedly.

A shame really, as the next 4 games are arguably one of our most favourable runs all season. 

 

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11 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Ok Emi was silly to get carried away but you could see that red coming and Farke should have too.

now we hear Farke saying Pukki had a fitness issue when he came off. How costly could that end up being if he’s injured. 

we rarely, if ever, get a three goal cushion in games. Why on Earth were they both not sat safely on the bench by the time that red card happened. 

Jesus Christ, have you actually even got it within yourself to not criticise Daniel, Delia, or the club for anything - at all???? Even you managed to bizarrely and inexcusably find fault with the anti bullying message so I accept this is tame by your standards, but still, give it a bloody rest man and try getting behind the club you claim to supposedly support.

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11 hours ago, hogesar said:

I love the desperation from some posters to try and claw back some egotistical credit that they know better than Farke when he proves them wrong week after week after week.

Precisely this. Our management team know exactly what they are doing and stay calm when people on here whittle and worry about the sky falling in on us. Funny how Sorensen playing at left back has hardly been mentioned on here recently, it’s almost as though Farke and Webber knew he could do a good job there if required before they let McCallum go out on loan. 

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11 hours ago, hogesar said:

I love the desperation from some posters to try and claw back some egotistical credit that they know better than Farke when he proves them wrong week after week after week.

It was clear that Emi was a loose cannon and antagonising the ref with his pretending to be injured and constant complaining, and he now has a rep for sendings off.  Remember the end of last season when he lost his cool and elbowed a player in the head ?  I don't see where posters' egos comes into that.  I can see where commonsense comes into it though. There will come a point where we cannot trust him to remain on the pitch and selling may be a better option as we cannot afford to play with ten men too often while also suffering unnecessary and long suspensions. I don't want to see that scenario but it may in the end be the outcome unless he stops acting like a spoilt child.

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I am going to agree with Jim on this one. The moment Emi was booked he should have been brought off.   Pukki a more difficult one to call, but if Emi had been repaced, we would have at least been more likely to have 11 players on the pitch and then Placheta would have had a bit more support after he went up front after Pukki's substitution. 

 

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11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I am going to agree with Jim on this one. The moment Emi was booked he should have been brought off.   Pukki a more difficult one to call, but if Emi had been repaced, we would have at least been more likely to have 11 players on the pitch and then Placheta would have had a bit more support after he went up front after Pukki's substitution. 

 

This is just so simplistic and one of many reasons why none of us are in the hotseat.

Buendia was the most influential player on the pitch and not just offensively, his counter-pressing led the line and enabled us to force Stoke back. We don't have anyone who's nearly as good at Buendia at pressing the ball as he is. Take him off too early and you give the advantage straight back to Stoke early on in the half. 

Farke also has to show an element of faith in Buendia - we cannot take him off every time he gets booked. He is the best player in this entire division and should be on the pitch as long as possible.

Pukki had to come off if he was feeling his hamstrings and guess what, he was!

 

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36 minutes ago, paul moy said:

It was clear that Emi was a loose cannon and antagonising the ref with his pretending to be injured and constant complaining, and he now has a rep for sendings off.  Remember the end of last season when he lost his cool and elbowed a player in the head ?  I don't see where posters' egos comes into that.  I can see where commonsense comes into it though. There will come a point where we cannot trust him to remain on the pitch and selling may be a better option as we cannot afford to play with ten men too often while also suffering unnecessary and long suspensions. I don't want to see that scenario but it may in the end be the outcome unless he stops acting like a spoilt child.

Yeah I guess Farke has no knowledge on Buendia as a player / character and therefore was completely unaware that he might pick up a second yellow.

Or, as head coach he weighed up the risk vs reward factor and still, despite the bleating on here, came out on top with all 3 points.

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49 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

Precisely this. Our management team know exactly what they are doing and stay calm when people on here whittle and worry about the sky falling in on us. Funny how Sorensen playing at left back has hardly been mentioned on here recently, it’s almost as though Farke and Webber knew he could do a good job there if required before they let McCallum go out on loan. 

They didn't and Farke admitted as much. It was a hunch and its come off but lets not pretend it wasn't an error going into the season wiht just one left back and now having to play a midfielder there probably for 15 plus games. Luckily Sorensen is an intelligent player and has coped with it. 

Farke is generally doing a great job this season obviously. His use of subs is generally much better and I think we've also improved defensively against crosses and set plays. I've never once called for him to go or said he's not the best guy to get us back up. 

However, he still has a tendency to leave things as they are or to run certain players into the ground. We hav't had a two or three goals cushion all season apart from at Bristol. He will nevr get a better chance to rest Pukki yet we left him on another 10 minutes and then he had to come off after feeling his hamstrings. Equally probably won;t get a better opportunity to give a youngster like Dickson Peters half an hour at first team level to see how he goes. We moan about the workload our players are facing and yet when 3-0 up and coasting (and we would have coasted it if we hadn;t gone down to 10 men) we don;t take off our two most important attacking players and we then take off a youngster who should have loads of running in his legs. 

As for Emi, there was a 10 minute spell leading up to his red card where there were a lot of fifty fifty tackles flying in in the midfield area and it was really obvious he was fired up and getting sucked in to a few unnessessary physical duals. Not hindsight, several of us were watching together online and we all said the same thing when he got his yellow - take him off now before he gets sent off or injured.  

On a different note our injuries (or injury scares) of the last week just go to show how absolutely ridiculous the recent international fixtures were. That we have now lost Krul and McClean as well as had a scare to Pukki, all of whom went and played in 2 or 3 games, is gutting. 

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2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah I guess Farke has no knowledge on Buendia as a player / character and therefore was completely unaware that he might pick up a second yellow.

Or, as head coach he weighed up the risk vs reward factor and still, despite the bleating on here, came out on top with all 3 points.

What reward factor? We were 3-0 up. There was no reward factor to keeping him on, only risk (or either an injury or a red card). Swap Emi for Vrancic on the hour mark and we win that game comfortably. Stoke were gone. 

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10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

This is just so simplistic and one of many reasons why none of us are in the hotseat.

Farke also has to show an element of faith in Buendia - we cannot take him off every time he gets booked. He is the best player in this entire division and should be on the pitch as long as possible.

It's not too simplistic, nor is it about "faith in the player".  Emi has to learn. If he gets booked and then does something silly to get sent off - which he has more than once - then the coach has to act imo.  3-0 up, him getting an uneccessary booking - subbing him for fresh legs would have been by far the most sensible thing to do.  The way he put his foot up so high to try and get the ball for his second booking was ludicrous - it showed he was tired and the signs were there at te first booking.

Edited by lake district canary

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