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Marco Stiepermann has got away with a stinker

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Football is a funny game. Somehow, everyone is talking about how Jordan Hugill struggled, and no one, absolutely no one, has mentioned that Marco struggled just as much to retain possession of the ball. Like Hugill, he was often receiving the ball under pressure (but less pressure) and sometimes with his back to goal, but the number of times he lost possession was a real source of danger. 

He didn't thread our attacking game together in the way he sometimes does. He didn't once slide past defenders who cannot read his unconventional style, and he didn't have the merest sight of a goal effort. We need Marco to turn up with his 'A' game every week. That's his challenge. 

So let's see the game in its totality, not through the prism of what the radio commentators' perception. It's noteworthy that Gunny didn't criticise Hugill, because he knows the difficulty the big man faced in receiving the ball under pressure in advanced positions with very strong defenders breathing down his neck, with no one to lay the ball off to.. Defenders who would get a Warnock rollicking if they didn't try to steamroller Hugill at every opportunity. 

PS Didn't the big number Dael Fry look commanding, and what a challenge on Teemu in the second half? To play against him and Paddy McNair puts Hugill's task in context.

   

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Agree that Stiepi had a stinker yesterday. He'll always be an unconventional player, and on his day he can be remarkably effective. Farke does have a penchant for an 'atypical' 10 who has some physical and aerial presence (he utilised Kenny there a fair bit too). I trust Farke's judgement absolutely, but it does seem somewhat counterintuitive not to have a visionary/creative player like Emi or Mario in that role. I think Dowell was intended to be the latest incarnation of that mould of player, as he's pretty big and strong for an attacking midfielder, and his injury has led to Stiepi getting rather a lot of unexpected game time.

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5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Agree that Stiepi had a stinker yesterday. He'll always be an unconventional player, and on his day he can be remarkably effective. Farke does have a penchant for an 'atypical' 10 who has some physical and aerial presence (he utilised Kenny there a fair bit too). I trust Farke's judgement absolutely, but it does seem somewhat counterintuitive not to have a visionary/creative player like Emi or Mario in that role. I think Dowell was intended to be the latest incarnation of that mould of player, as he's pretty big and strong for an attacking midfielder, and his injury has led to Stiepi getting rather a lot of unexpected game time.

I’m wondering if Marco’s long standing neck problem is affecting his effectiveness maybe? Or maybe he’s less effective when teams defend in numbers where there is less room to manoeuvre?

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Wouldn't mind seeing Fry and Dijksteel in yellow, if Aarons goes.

As for the number 10, Stiepi's still feeling his way back in, but he's at his best with Pukki up there. He and Hugill are a bit too similar - two big and awkward feckers who don't always have the best of touches. And let's not forget that was a Middlesborough side with the best defensive record/organisation in the division, and who certainly showed it with their tackling, organisation, and blocking.

I'd prefer to see Buendia given a crack there instead of being sorta out on that wing.

Edited by TheGunnShow

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2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Wouldn't mind seeing Fry and Dijksteel in yellow, if Aarons goes.

Good shout though Dijksteel would surely be behind Mumba in the pecking order I reckon, Gunny, assuming you’re talking squad depth anyway rather than as a 1st choice starter. Look’s the natural heir to the throne, does Mumba. Our scouting department is great! 

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2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Good shout though Dijksteel would surely be behind Mumba in the pecking order I reckon, Gunny, assuming you’re talking squad depth anyway rather than as a 1st choice starter. Look’s the natural heir to the throne, does Mumba. Our scouting department is great! 

I'm not entirely sure Mumba's going to end up a wing-back, you know! The fun in following him is working out where exactly he will end up. Right-back / right wing-back seems most likely, but there could even be a more old-school winger in there. If he's good at picking a pass, I wouldn't even be all that surprised to see him as a classic roving number 10.

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I said during the match thread that neither Stiepermann nor Hugill were holding the ball up well enough. Ideally we don't have to use both in tandem again.

For all his limitations, I do like Stiepermann's awkwardness and the way he combines with Pukki. But when you're up against a half decent side and they're having their moment you need the front players to gather it in. I really don't think the ball is either Stiepermann's or Hugill's friend!

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12 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm not entirely sure Mumba's going to end up a wing-back, you know! The fun in following him is working out where exactly he will end up. Right-back / right wing-back seems most likely, but there could even be a more old-school winger in there. If he's good at picking a pass, I wouldn't even be all that surprised to see him as a classic roving number 10.

He reminded me a little of Ruel Fox with all those twists and turns in his last match oddly. Something in his movement. But we didn't sign him as a winger! He looked to have the same unpredictable style that Onel provides too. Looking forward to seeing this lad far more. Hopefully not out for too long.

The injury list is getting more serious....Quintilla, Dowell, Idah, Mumba, Byram, Hernandez, Hugill now probably. Who have I missed?

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13 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm not entirely sure Mumba's going to end up a wing-back, you know! The fun in following him is working out where exactly he will end up. Right-back / right wing-back seems most likely, but there could even be a more old-school winger in there. If he's good at picking a pass, I wouldn't even be all that surprised to see him as a classic roving number 10.

Interesting! I’d certainly never considered him as a number 10, from the little I’ve seen of him, but that’s an interesting out of the box idea. I think much will depend on whether we go up, and whether we keep Aarons or not. If Aarons go’s, then I kind of feel he’ll be the natural most obvious successor there. But if we’re not desperate for the money I could see Max staying for at least a season if we get back up, there’s no hint of a player there that strongly wants away thankfully.

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Just now, sonyc said:

He reminded me a little of Ruel Fox with all those twists and turns in his last match oddly. Something in his movement. But we didn't sign him as a winger! He looked to have the same unpredictable style that Onel provides too. Looking forward to seeing this lad far more. Hopefully not out for too long.

The injury list is getting more serious....Quintilla, Dowell, Idah, Mumba, Byram, Hernandez, Hugill now probably. Who have I missed?

Actually, that's a good shout, now you mention it. Can't give any more thumbs-up today, unfortunately. The thing is, didn't he usually play centre-midfield as a youth player at Sunderland?

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1 minute ago, sonyc said:

He reminded me a little of Ruel Fox with all those twists and turns in his last match oddly. Something in his movement. But we didn't sign him as a winger! He looked to have the same unpredictable style that Onel provides too. Looking forward to seeing this lad far more. Hopefully not out for too long.

The injury list is getting more serious....Quintilla, Dowell, Idah, Mumba, Byram, Hernandez, Hugill now probably. Who have I missed?

Er... *whispers it*... Cantwell? 😉

Good shout on the Ruel Fox comparison, could be our very own Raheem 👍

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4 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Er... *whispers it*... Cantwell? 😉

Good shout on the Ruel Fox comparison, could be our very own Raheem 👍

Cantwell injured? He's not is he?!😉

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9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Cantwell injured? He's not is he?!😉

Not really, Sony, but somehow he keeps doing the blissfully unaware Farke up like a kipper, Gunny 😉

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Bristol City and Man City last season aside,  I’ve not seen anything near a good performance from him in a long time. 
 

Even when he scored v Swansea he was poor. 

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My main issue with Stiepermann is that by about 60 minutes he's had enough and becomes a passenger. He then walks around everywhere and does nothing. I don't dislike him, I just think if Cantwell is fit or anyone else is that he would be better coming off the bench

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4 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Agree that Stiepi had a stinker yesterday. He'll always be an unconventional player, and on his day he can be remarkably effective. Farke does have a penchant for an 'atypical' 10 who has some physical and aerial presence (he utilised Kenny there a fair bit too). I trust Farke's judgement absolutely, but it does seem somewhat counterintuitive not to have a visionary/creative player like Emi or Mario in that role. I think Dowell was intended to be the latest incarnation of that mould of player, as he's pretty big and strong for an attacking midfielder, and his injury has led to Stiepi getting rather a lot of unexpected game time.

He wanted someone with better long distance shooting. Tbf to Stiepermann, he’s not the worst option to have there, but he doesn’t impose himself enough.

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To be honest one pass and one goal other than that has been utterly anonymous in every game, loses the ball easy, passes are wayward and his heading is abysmal for his size........ 

 

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9 hours ago, shefcanary said:

And Rupp with his hammy?

Is this the possible injury that could hurt us the most out of those already crocked?

I think so

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9 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

Agree that Stiepi had a stinker yesterday. He'll always be an unconventional player, and on his day he can be remarkably effective. Farke does have a penchant for an 'atypical' 10 who has some physical and aerial presence (he utilised Kenny there a fair bit too). I trust Farke's judgement absolutely, but it does seem somewhat counterintuitive not to have a visionary/creative player like Emi or Mario in that role. I think Dowell was intended to be the latest incarnation of that mould of player, as he's pretty big and strong for an attacking midfielder, and his injury has led to Stiepi getting rather a lot of unexpected game time.

Mario has proven multiple times that starting that high up the pitch makes him pretty ineffective - so slow - can't dribble past a player, and he's too forward to play his best passes - long balls in behind. Pretty much the last combination you want from a number 10.

Not surprising that Stiepermann had a better second half with pukki in front of him. He didn't have a good game but he still takes up very intelligent positions and along with pukki makes space for Emi.

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21 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Mario has proven multiple times that starting that high up the pitch makes him pretty ineffective - so slow - can't dribble past a player, and he's too forward to play his best passes - long balls in behind. Pretty much the last combination you want from a number 10.

Not surprising that Stiepermann had a better second half with pukki in front of him. He didn't have a good game but he still takes up very intelligent positions and along with pukki makes space for Emi.

Take your point about Mario. Not convinced Stiepi was much, if any, better in the second half, but you're right that he does have a good understanding with Pukki.

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5 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Take your point about Mario. Not convinced Stiepi was much, if any, better in the second half, but you're right that he does have a good understanding with Pukki.

I think you're right that Dowell was probably earmarked as the number 10 this season, he has a bit of physicality and height about him. I do think if we are top 6 at Christmas then having Dowell, Hernandez and Quintilla back (assuming no bad injuries in the mean time) would be a massive boost and almost feel like new signings.

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6 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

He wanted someone with better long distance shooting. Tbf to Stiepermann, he’s not the worst option to have there, but he doesn’t impose himself enough.

Oh yes he is!     Wouldn't even get a subs shirt for me.... may be harsh to some, but he's simply not very good!

He puts in a half decent pass once in a blue moon and everyone's raving.... the op is correct, how Marco gets away without severe criticism for his performances beggars belief.    Not sure what some fans are watching!    Can someone explain what he positively offers the team with any specific evidence?   He is not Pukki's supply (Buendia makes Pukki tick), he's not good in the air, he can't control a football, most of his passes go astray, he doesn't win many tackles, he can't protect the ball despite his frame and it gets nicked off him far too easily and leaves us vulnerable to counters, have I missed anything?

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7 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Oh yes he is!     Wouldn't even get a subs shirt for me.... may be harsh to some, but he's simply not very good!

He puts in a half decent pass once in a blue moon and everyone's raving.... the op is correct, how Marco gets away without severe criticism for his performances beggars belief.    Not sure what some fans are watching!    Can someone explain what he positively offers the team with any specific evidence?   He is not Pukki's supply (Buendia makes Pukki tick), he's not good in the air, he can't control a football, most of his passes go astray, he doesn't win many tackles, he can't protect the ball despite his frame and it gets nicked off him far too easily and leaves us vulnerable to counters, have I missed anything?

I never said he was the best, but he’s not the worst option. 
 

 You missed his winner vs Swansea and he put in a very good performance vs Bristol.

 

He’s a strange player, looks like he cannot be bothered. But it’s what Farke is going with atm.

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9 hours ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Oh yes he is!     Wouldn't even get a subs shirt for me.... may be harsh to some, but he's simply not very good!

He puts in a half decent pass once in a blue moon and everyone's raving.... the op is correct, how Marco gets away without severe criticism for his performances beggars belief.    Not sure what some fans are watching!    Can someone explain what he positively offers the team with any specific evidence?   He is not Pukki's supply (Buendia makes Pukki tick), he's not good in the air, he can't control a football, most of his passes go astray, he doesn't win many tackles, he can't protect the ball despite his frame and it gets nicked off him far too easily and leaves us vulnerable to counters, have I missed anything?

If you ask Pukki who he'd want behind him, he'll always tell you Buendia and Stiepermann.

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20 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Anyway, let's all get a petition started to give Mumba the number five shirt for next season! 😄

Like the campaign to get Godfrey playing as a defensive midfielder? 😂

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1 hour ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

I never said he was the best, but he’s not the worst option. 
 

 You missed his winner vs Swansea and he put in a very good performance vs Bristol.

 

He’s a strange player, looks like he cannot be bothered. But it’s what Farke is going with atm.

You definitely didn’t say he was the best, I definitely said he was the worst option, that’s where we disagree and that’s OK.    We have so much talent at the club and any of Buendia, Cantwell, Martin, Vrancic, McLean and Rupp would do a better job.   That doesn’t include Dowell, Sinani, or Hernandez who are also better when available.    

Of course I didn’t miss his winner against Swansea or his two passes against Bristol City and yes, he had a good first half in that game, but he’s started three matches since then and done nothing except for the goal.   But I don’t judge a player on one pass or isolated goal, only on complete performances.     This very good performance v Bristol City, did you notice also that he lost concentration for their goal... didn’t challenge for a header when he should have, the defender unchallenged headed it forward easily, GOAL...from our counter attack contrived to gift Chris Martin his chance to shoot when he hit the post and got Sorensen booked the result of his awful pass (Sorensen, by the way now one booking from being banned) when we don’t have cover.

I asked ‘Can someone explain what he positively offers the team with any specific evidence?’ is that all anyone has to offer that he’s ‘awkward!’.

So who is a worse option and why?

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