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First Wizard

Promotion?, Not with Worthington.

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Ok I''m going to get slaughted for this, but promotion under ''Worthless'' (for thats what I call him) never!. why, then read on. To all who went to the last 3 away games, its obvious City don''t start to play until Worthingtons tactics of ''a draw at least'' mentality, has failed. At West Brom on Saturday, City started with the formation of 4 5 1, not 4 3 3 as some believe!. when that cowardly plan failed, only then at the start of the second half, did Crouch and McVeigh get on.Why? Time and time Worthington has stuck with the inept Rivers (even ''jobbers'' in the 3rd division can cross the ball repeatedly) why?. you never see City score a hatful of goals in a game, why. because if, after we have scored 2, off come the strikers, and defenders/midfielders are put on. thus inviting the opposing team forward. How many points have been thrown away because of this negative tatic?. also when was the last time city scored 4 in a game?. Goal difference can be vital in the end!. The current boss will NEVER get City out of this Division, except maybe relegated, accept it!. He is too concerned about not losing, ''a point will do'' mentality again. Oh'' for the days of Stringer and Walker. Dol I have any suggestions?, well yes, but you''re not going to like it one little, George Burley. Now let the flack be directed in my direction, but at least he understands attacking football, and don''t take notice of Derby''s results, they are in such a finacial mess, he has no room to explore his ambitions. PS. I am just as intitled to my views as any city supporter, even if you don''t agree with them.

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I agree with you on certain points but I am not convinced that Burley would be the answer. Yes Crouch and McVeigh should have been on from the start and had we been more attack minded from the putset, then who knows what the result would have been. It would be interesting to see what team Sheffield United put out against West Brom last Tuesday, did they leave 2 of their best players on the bench? Surely at first division level you must put out your strongest team, especially away from home. West Brom have a back four who are all good in the air, so we put the man most likely to win balls off that back four, on the bench.

I get really frustrated with Worthy as just when you think he has got it right, and you are beginning to think he knows what he is doing, he changes the team for no reason at all. I am sure Megson was happy to see Rivers and Roberts as opposed to Crouch and McVeigh.

I don''t think you are in the minority when you suggest that we will not get promoted whilst Worthy is in charge. Ridiculous as it may seem, I would like to see someone like Roberts or Fleck as the manager. Both men would have the respect of most supporters and players, and more importantly, they would be attack minded.

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In reply to silver fox, I never thought about Ewan and Rob, its a idea I would''nt object to. apart from the lack of experience maybe. Although ''Flecky (my hero) has managed in non- league. And at least they''re both strikers, so they should both understand the importance of scoring. I would still prefer George Burley though, if only to annoy them down the road!.

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Humm, whilst agreeing with may of the points made above, I''m not so sure I agree with your suggestion that the answer is to change the manager?

Yes, the tactics can be frustrating at times, however, the implementation of those tactics is clearly down to the players on the pitch. Yes, sometimes, the wrong players start and the wrong players are on the bench. But notice the difference in the performance of the team, as highlighted at West Ham, when we started passing the ball in the second half, rather than the long ball approach that seemed so common in the first half.

The bottom line here, even if we change the manager, we''d still have the same squad and you''re only as good as the players on the pitch. Personally, I''d rather stick with what we''ve got.

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What is all this talk of that idiot Burley??? I''ve seen countless complaints about Worthy''s ineloquence, well Burley makes Nigel sound like Shakespeare. No-one can understand a word he says, so how are the players supposed to??! And how many years did he have at Ipswich before they were promoted? And on looser purse strings than the one year it took Nigel to get within a penalty kick of the same league. Admittedly GB had one very good season in the prem, but then he BLEW it big style. He lost the dressing room completely, played a bunch of party-animal morons that didn''t perform - and then continued to play them in the vain hope they might play well again. Over an over an over. I''d have dropped Bramble etc etc like a lead balloon some of the performances he gave.

If Nigel had one game like Burley allowed Ip****c to play in 2001/2002 he''d be lynched and sacked.

Also, I believe it was mainly Burley''s appalling buying that left the binmen up the creek financially - Marshall, Sereni, Finidi and a bunch of other lazy high-earning bench-sitters.

I understand Nigel is not the greatest manager in history, and it drives me to despair when he makes a mistake, or when we play badly or negatively.

But GEORGE BURLEY???? Purrrrlease.....

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spot on Mook, Burley is not the answer. I cannot believe that Nige is getting hammered. We have played 5 at home and 8 away and are just 1 point away from the play off places. In that run we have played Sheff Utd, Wigan, West Ham, West Brom, Stoke, Gillingham, Bradford and Notts Forrest away. I would say that losing on the road to just three of them is not too shoddy. We have 15 from 15 at home, and 7 from 24 away. Now our away from may not be magnificent but we have had some bloody tough games and at home our record speaks for itself. As i have said before, we are going to lose games, lets not lose them to the basement clubs and we will be OK. We should have beaten Bradford (went to sleep) and Stoke (Fleming!!!!) I admit Nige made a horrendous judgement on Saturday but this is the same guys judgement who brought in Hucks, Crouch and Harper when everybody was going oohhh Worthy''s great. We now have a good opportunity to put some points on the board and if we are sitting in second or third after our home spell are we going to slam Nige then? Thought not. Now if we play s***e at home and drop points with Worthy not learning from his mistake then yeah, lets question him. Everybody is entitled to their opinion granted, I just think such criticsm of our manager of the month is a bit harsh at the moment.

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I agree entirely, Mook. Whilst a talented coach, he took an age to get Ipswich up and then blew big money on players not up to the task. Plus the fact that the man is Ipswich I couldn''t bring myself to like him. Also, remember the last pro-Ipswich manager we had in charge??

Let''s stop this crazy talk now - he wouldn''t do a better job than Worthy so stop entertaining the idea.

Next you''ll be telling me that Howard Wilkinson would be a good appointment...

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Oh dear, what have I done?, stirred it up a bit I believe. Seriously I still believe George Burley has more tatical know how than NW. That lot ''down the road'' always knew how to score goals, come on admit it, even if it does hurt. It was''nt Burley''s fault that the board did''nt have a clue or courage to stick with him.. And if it means City getting up I don''t care if the manager comes from Mars!. Don''t forget West Brom is''nt the first time NW messed up. And why has he persisted with a useless wide man who can''t cross or beat full backs, time and time again?. I dislike Ipswich as much as you lot do, but the best thing for City, is I believe George Burley, regardless of his past appointments.

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The phrase "the grass is always greener..." springs to mind.

The frustrating thing is that the problems with Worthy do seem so simple:

1. Negative tactics away from home
2. Inability to realise that a tight defence is as important as an exciting forward line
3. Tendency to stick with underperformers.

None of these seem difficult to solve. But we could have far worse problems and lets not forget that just a few weeks back evryone was singing his praises at those magnificent loan signings. Just one defeat later and the knives come out. One post above pointed out how difficult our away matches have been, I would like more away points as well but we have played and got some of the toughest matches out of the way early.

Three league defeats, all away, to West Brom, Sheff Utd and Notts Forest is by no means a disgrace. Disappointing yes, but we are going to get beaten a few time this season and those are the sort of games that we might expect to lose. Away games at Wimbledon, Millwall, Derby are the ones we expect or hope to win.

Seems to me that the focus should be more positive- stop the criticism realise what we have got, that we are just a few points away from that automatic spot DESPITE having played 8 tough away games some of which we could actually have won.

Is anybody else going to be an improvement? A change for change''s sake is worse than no change at all and I see no evidence so far this season that things are so horribly bad that we need to disrupt things yet again. I am no NW apologist, but for God''s sake we are only 1/4 of the way through the season and we are nicely tucked in there with some home games to come and a genuine buzz about the place again. Surley we should rejoice in that?

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I''m gonna try and stay calm here but it''s gonna be tough! Yes, you have stirred something wizard! But not as much as i might have hoped - i can''t believe people seem to be agreeing with you. Although i''m not sure - are the rest of you calling for his head too?
Firstly, as Hydan pointed out, the guy has a manager of the month award, he has bought in some quality players, without whom we''d be entrenched in mid table obscurity, we have the only 100% home record in the country, and as i type he has just turned NO POINTS into THREE with ten men, when we should really have lost by all accounts if they had any players who could finish. And anyone will tell you that if you can get a team to pick up points and even win when they''re not fully up to speed then you''ll do well. I could go on.
Ok, his away tactics are sometimes questionable (esp at W.Ham when we had corners, throw ins and a free kick on the edge of their area in the last minutes and we just held it in the corner instead of put it in the area) but for goodness sake, don''t start calling for his head for that or for an only average away record. It''s ridiculous. The guy is a young learning manager, he''s one of the few with the highest coaching qualification available and he is improving all the time. And so are we with him.
What on earth is it you want? Do you really think we could be further ahead than we are now with someone else post hamilton/itv digital. And please don''t use that as a cue to start accusing people of lacking ambition or being satisfied with mediocrity, we are going in the right direction given our resources and you can not expect any other manager to have done better than NW already has, nor to do any better in the immediate future. Our best chance of going up is to keep the management team as stable and un hassled as possible - nearly all successful teams that go up do so with stability, not knee jerk changes. Jesus this isn''t even a knee jerk, it''s just a whim. As you are going to a lot of away games wiz, are you not in the area and unable to go to home games? Cos if that is the case then you are only seeing one side of the story and i can maybe then understand where you''re coming from a tiny bit. Get along to a home game and see the boys in action on their home turf with a great atmos even with just the 3 sides. Come Feb and 25,000 it''s gonna give us another big boost into the last part of the season. My hopes are high even if yours aren''t. Give NW a break.

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I think the answer is logic. You ask why McVeigh and Crouch didnt start against West Brom?

I ask one question, what are West Brom well known for?

And I shall provide the answer, strength and power along with muscling 1-0 wins!

McVeigh is not really the "mix it" kind of player we would need on the pitch to counter thier muscle. And Crouch was coming back from injury I believe, and Iwan had played well previously to deerve a place in the starting line up.

I think that if you do your research you will find that Worthington is growing in stature and reputation and I dont think that he would have won the Manager of the Month award if he isnt all that good.

Plus there is the fact that he managed to change the game around last night even with only ten men on the pitch by bringing on fresh players.

And as I have said before good managers arnt those that can spend huge amounts of money on big players, thats easy, its those that spot the quality of cheaper ones and make them better.

Look at Drury, Rivers, McVeigh. All display real quality now and have grown and matured as players under Worthington.

Then there is the fact that Worthington is once again making this club attractive to young and good players. Before it was known as a good retirement club for old players, but its beggining to get back its shine. To ditch Worthy now would be disastrous. The loaning of Huckerby etc has proved that we have a good base of players and just need a couple of sparks to get the fire really burning. It would be like getting rid of the architect and inviting in a cowboy.

In short it would be absoloute suicide clubwise.

Rather than quoting one game and one supposed, but possibly forced, bad decision come up with something a little better. ALL of the facts point towards him being a good sound manager.

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A very good reply A1canary, constructive, valid points etc, but be honest Derby at times played us off the pitch last night. Thanks to Greeno, the Gods and the ref, we were very lucky. OK, great fitness levels and guts from the lads I grant you, but alone that will not be enough. Why did Worthless pick the inept Rivers yet again, young Jarvis should get the nod on Saturday, NW been here long enough to have ''sussed'' that out surely. and come December when I believe the holy trio will depart, what then?. No, Derby were unlucky, and who''s their manager!. time will tell, if I''m wrong, but unless a more attack minded manager is brought in, then don''t complain about life in the first division.

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A very good reply A1canary, constructive, valid points etc, but be honest Derby at times played us off the pitch last night. Thanks to Greeno, the Gods and the ref, we were very lucky. OK, great fitness levels and guts from the lads I grant you, but alone that will not be enough. Why did Worthless pick the inept Rivers yet again, young Jarvis should get the nod on Saturday, NW been here long enough to have ''sussed'' that out surely. and come December when I believe the holy trio will depart, what then?. No, Derby were unlucky, and who''s their manager!. time will tell, if I''m wrong, but unless a more attack minded manager is brought in, then don''t complain about life in the first division. And by the way, I use to watch Bunny Larkin, at Carrow Rd, so thats how long I''ve been going!.

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Dear Mr Wizard,

Whilst I recognise every fan''s right to have their say, I feel there are a few points you should understand:

1) We have no money. We have lost one game in eight, against mostly wealthy top sides, mostly away from home. That is good.

2) We are described by the national press as ''Perrenial Promotion Contenders''. Two years ago we were described as relegation fodder. That is also good.

3) We have the best home record in the Division, one of the best in the entire country. That is very good.

4) Worthington is highly qualified, ambitious (if a little cautious), liked by his players and bosses, doesn''t want to go anywhere else, is learning by his mistakes and persuaded Huckerby to come here on loan rather than go to Wolves or Celtic on a permanent contract. And he is not Bryan Hamilton. That is very, very good.

5) Please don''t ever suggest that any Ipswich manager, past or present, should be Norwich manager. That is very, very bad.

So stick with it Mr Wizard. I don''t doubt that you are a true fan (although I suspected you were a Blue for a moment), so please let this season happen. At least reserve your judgement for Christmas, when I fear we will be less concerned about Mr Worthington than we are about the Board. Until then, get behind the team, don''t boo them (like some IDIOTS were doing before half time last night) and enjoy the rocky yellow and green rollercoaster ride. You may not like it Sir, but you can''t say this season hasn''t been exciting...

Yours,

King Juan of Spain

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Briefly, just two more points to emphasise if i haven''t already. We were indeed played off the park last night, we were a man down, and we WON. Few teams can play at 100 percent for most of the season. Those that do, exceed themselves, and then sink back again like Reading last year, ipswich in the prem, maybe wigan this year (although maybe they are beginning to look worth a top 6 place) and various others - us in the play off season even. The teams that do really well are those that can still win when they are playing at 50%. That''s what we did last night. The signs are good.
Secondly, i too wonder what will happen when the loan spells end. Huckerby is going back, no question (he ''aint takin a 75% pay cut) and it''s no surprise that Jarvis was on the bench last night - he is going to be the man/boy who has to step up from December if we''re gonna challenge in May and NW knows it. And i think Jarvis has what it takes to do that. There''s a chance we may be able to keep harper or crouch for the season too. And remember our 10 man fightback last night was achieved without any of the loan signings on the pitch. And lets not forget Brennan (difficult at the moment i know). There is still hope,even after December.
Have you thought about the effect it would have on the squad to ditch the man who built it? Utter disruption, complete loss of faith in the club and a total shattering of confidence. Confidence that has had to be built up from absolutely nothing after hamilton and the brink of div 2, to what we saw last night. Ditching NW would undo all that work and leave us stranded and going nowhere. And Rivers is coming back from injury just fine. Were you on his back at the beginning of the season? You want attacking football and yet you diss one of the few genuinely attacking players we have (not counting the loans). I''m exhausted, i can defend NWs green army no more...

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Dear Mr King Juan, Never, not even for a slight moment have I held any liking for THAT lot down the road, I bleed Yellow and green you know. But that does not mean I can''t reconise what I believe to be a very talented manager, (or an over rated one come to that) and have the guts to say so!. I ''m truely sorry if I have upset fellow City fans ( never my intentions) its just that I believe I was right in this matter, and a person''s past clubs should not bar him from being rated highly by some of us (thats just childish to think otherwise). But to keep you all happy, can we just agree to disagree, please. And I NEVER repeat NEVER, boo the lads at games, even during Chase''s demise. unlike some so called fans did last night!.

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Dear Mr Wizard
Please do not denegrate Rivers who in the team game has been part of the the only side in the top divisions with a 100% home record. He is no Kenny Foggo or for that matter Errol Crossan which should give you an idea of how long I have followed the beloved City. I recall a game in the old first division when Leeds were top of the league came to Carrow Road were played off the park, City put the ball in the net, it was disallowed for Gods knows what reason. While we were all cursing Leeds swept upfield scored within a minute and won 1-0. The papers described their performance as professional! Thats what it was like in the first half last night. A win with 10 men was a magnificent professional performance. Take heed of the wise words of King J Of S and A1 canary. Have faith in your team, manager, and board. With the right vocal support home and away and with the gradual introduction of the youngsters we might not even need to book a flight to Cardiff except to see who will join us in the Premiership. We dont want to do an Ipswich we want to go one better than West Brom and consolidate rather than bankrupt the club and the loyal local businesses.

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Dear Mr Heraldo, Eh?. you said it, Rivers is no Foggo, Crossan, Puntin, thats my point!. When have I ever advocated doing a Ips (sorry, can''t say that word) or Baggies. My thread was about the merits of NW and George Burley. and if we''re going to get ridiculous, why not say we hate Mulryne and Notman because they played for the evil red empire, or I was assaulted at Aston Villa for supporting City victory there. so Crouch can''t come here either. Get my drift?. I trust thats clear.

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I can''t listen to this any longer without commenting.

Firstly, there is a big difference between taking a player or manager from a team you don''t support, or don''t like, and taking one from your local rivals. Players and managers shouldn''t do it. (Note: Andy Marshall).

Secondly, there seem to be two lines of thought in this thread, and both are right. There is one that goes ''have faith in the team/manager/board, support them whatever, etc.etc.'' and one that looks more objectively at their performance.

I seem to sway between the two. At 76 minutes on Tuesday night I must admit my faith was low; I couldn''t see us getting anything from the game. I was still shouting, but it felt as if it wasn''t going to be our day. No one should dispute that Worthy, the current board and players (most of them) have achieved more than any others in the past decade. That''s not to say they''re perfect, or that they''re going to win the league, or whatever, but it would be naive to suggest that we can simply replace them all with better ones any more than we can ''just go and buy'' Huckerby.

So, its fair to challenge those currently within the club, but it needs to be backed up with realistic and feasible suggestions for moving things forward. Without that its just criticism, and that''s way too easy to do.

Ama

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Sorry to wind you up Mr Wizard no intent - you missed my point about that so called "friendly well managed club in suffolk" (Sky''s description not mine) as you cant bear to hear their name. That club spent a fortune and effectively screwed local businesses for £30m approx and no one moans. Did the players suffer any losses? the directors? The ones who lost are people like you and me because presumably the taxpayers (thats us) lost out on Nat Insurance and Tax payments which could have been used for the good of everyone in the Country. I have no problem with signing anyone from any where as long as they are committed to NCFC-happy now? As for Rivers he doesnt miss penalties and can be devestating when he cuts in to the middle hence confusing full backs. Now Bill Punton thats a different matter and side of the pitch.

No one seems to want to comment on my suggestion that Captain Canary must go and be replaced by the "Canary Birds" after the effect on the away support the Hammerettes had at west Ham. Presumably most of you still think a game is of two halfs only and forget there is half time. Whats wrong with a little glamour or are you satisfied with Delia.

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Fair points..however more research needs to be done on your part. We do not have the best home record in Div 1....We have the best in the Country not just one of the best!
With Regard to Huckerby being persuaded by Worthy to come here on loan rather than go to Wolves or Celtic on a permanent basis is absolutely wrong! He only decided to come here on loan after not figuring in Keegans plans and being dropped from the first team.

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Not entirely true. Celtic and Wolves both tried to take him but he didn''t want to go as he assumed he would be part of Keegan''s plans. When he found out that he wasn''t going to be playing for City it was too late, he had already turned these moves down.

Nigel nipped in, and the rest is history.

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To answer the initial question simply, I firmly believe he''s the man for the job....of course we can get promoted with Worthy. BUT...will he still be here at the end of the season? (let alone Huckerby). I''m starting to doubt it.

Alex.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]Ok I''m going to get slaughted for this, but promotion under ''Worthless'' (for thats what I call him) never!. why, then read on. To all who went to the last 3 away games, its obvious City don''t start to play until Worthingtons tactics of ''a draw at least'' mentality, has failed. At West Brom on Saturday, City started with the formation of 4 5 1, not 4 3 3 as some believe!. when that cowardly plan failed, only then at the start of the second half, did Crouch and McVeigh get on.Why? Time and time Worthington has stuck with the inept Rivers (even ''jobbers'' in the 3rd division can cross the ball repeatedly) why?. you never see City score a hatful of goals in a game, why. because if, after we have scored 2, off come the strikers, and defenders/midfielders are put on. thus inviting the opposing team forward. How many points have been thrown away because of this negative tatic?. also when was the last time city scored 4 in a game?. Goal difference can be vital in the end!. The current boss will NEVER get City out of this Division, except maybe relegated, accept it!. He is too concerned about not losing, ''a point will do'' mentality again. Oh'' for the days of Stringer and Walker. Dol I have any suggestions?, well yes, but you''re not going to like it one little, George Burley. Now let the flack be directed in my direction, but at least he understands attacking football, and don''t take notice of Derby''s results, they are in such a finacial mess, he has no room to explore his ambitions. PS. I am just as intitled to my views as any city supporter, even if you don''t agree with them.[/quote]

i hope u ate ur words at the end of this season when we got promoted to the premiership unofortunately league 1 football is on the horizon

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Its bring back my old posts time again I see.

Why the mods allow it beats me. It confuses the hell out of posters, and it just jams up the board.

Check the dates on page 1 of this thread..............Jeez.

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"i hope u ate ur words at the end of this season when we got promoted to

the premiership unofortunately league 1 football is on the horizon"i hope you will go away soon...fans from other clubs - goodannoying fans from other clubs - bad.

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[quote user="1st Wizard"]

Its bring back my old posts time again I see.

Why the mods allow it beats me. It confuses the hell out of posters, and it just jams up the board.

Check the dates on page 1 of this thread..............Jeez.

[/quote]Don''t get wound up wiz, you know it''s no good for your old ticker. I must add though, the only thing that confuses the hell out of posters is knowing which side of the fence you''ll be sitting on this week !!   [;)]

 

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 Gee wiz .I think you only come out with these pearls of wisdom  when arrdee stirs you up .[;)].arrdee.

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