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The guy was ham fisted in his replies and that’s being generous. Probably for the best that he has gone if his views and thinking are that outdated.

Having said that I see Cardinal Vincent Nicholls has decided against resigning even though he has been heavily criticised over child abuse cover up in the church. Double standards all over the place in public life.

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17 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Greg Clarke resigns as Head of the FA after referring to “coloured players” during a Ministerial Select Committee meeting earlier today. 

I’ll confess that I am somewhat confused as to which terms we’re supposed to use when referring to non-Caucasian players, is “coloured players” so different from “People of Colour” which is how I was recommended during my last set of diversity training? Even BAME is short for “Black and Minority Ethnic”, but we’re not supposed to call people “black” either!

I’m not a dinosaur, I’m 32, and I do not want to give someone the opportunity to call me racist, but I am totally at a loss as to what is now acceptable. Please help.

They make it up as they go along.   Everybody has to feel offended.

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12 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not defending Clarke and I think he's a footballing dinosaur anyway, so lets get somebody who can progress the game and who understands the modern industry.... but if you ever watch unedited episodes of Only Fools and Horses or Minder from the 80's, you'll hear "coloured", "wog", "paki", and "half caste" which were all broadcast on the BBC. 

So i'm not sure that word was considered as inappropriate by wider society as you think.

Exactly.   Coloured has been used  throughout the decades.   The latest trend is to be offended whenever a political gain can be made.  

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6 minutes ago, paul moy said:

They make it up as they go along.   Everybody has to feel offended.

I think there is an element of truth in that. 

I have black friends some of which are ok with black, some of which don't care one way or the other and some of which wouldn't find coloured to be offensive. 

I grew up with a close friend who didn't know whether he preferred male or female, he made the choice that he preferred males, his choice and he'll tell anyone he chose that and finally there are some young ladies who don't like being hit with a football, in the same way some young men don't. 

The point I'm making is that everyone is different and everyone wants something different when you get to the crux of it. 

What Clarke is guilty of is not taking into consideration that no 2 people are the same so using any phrase or tag now can be/will be seen as unacceptable or wrong. 

My black mate laughs that so many get offended by the use of some words and that he can call his black mates the N word but I can't, not that I would. 

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17 minutes ago, paul moy said:

They make it up as they go along.

Says internet persona who makes up everything as they go along. 🤣

You couldn't make it up.

Apples

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9 hours ago, Pugin said:

Indeed. In 'not defending Greg Clarke' you have cast him in the same mould as Arthur Daley and Del Trotter. Good work!  Seriously, you are 'not defending' him impressively.

Here you go again Pugin with cutting and pasting a narrative to fit your agenda of the day. 

I'm not defending Clarke full stop, just like I said very clearly. 

I was simply challenging your assertion that 'coloured' was a word that society rejected in the 1960's, when actually the BBC have successfully airbrushed a lot of the 1980's to make it appear that way.  I first realised this after buying the Only Food and Horses boxset! 

I offered no comment on my thoughts on the word, I generally just try to use language that doesn't offend or upset and have never used the word "coloured". As a child I used the word "half caste" to describe my school friends who were half white and half black, I would have learned that word from the various adults around me, until I learned that this was considered offensive, or society began to widely accept it as offensive, and I now use "mixed race", in recent times I have been challenged on that term aggressively. Apparently its "mixed heritage" now. The person who called me racist for using the phrase "mixed race" was white British.

This is very similar to that time you falsely accused me of conflating homosexuality with peadophilia when I dared to suggest that a wealthy man in his mid-thirties using his fame and money to use the services of teenage rent boys is very creepy and morally questionable. The same view that I would take if an older wealthy male was using the services of teenage girls. 

What ever makes you think I'd be prepared to tolerate being targeted by the 'woke' virtue signalling of somebody who publicly rationalises and defends the disgusting sexual exploitation of teenagers, or indeed to defend football coaches who prey on the teenagers they are coaching. 

Seeing as you see fit to effectively imply that I'm a bit of a racist for pointing out that Arthur Daley used to say half caste in the eighties and how use of language evolves over time, without any regards to whether that insinuation may be somewhat offensive or upsetting to me, I could just come down to your level of discourse, leap to various conclusions to fit a narrative, apply the same creative license to what I perceive to be your defense of somebody that I consider to have had questionable ethics, and then imply that you yourself may be a pervert. 

Do you also like them young Pugin? Are you a kerb crawler? Would you pass a CRB? What terms do you search for on Pornhub? Does your wife or husband know that you think that men pushing middle age using teenage prostitutes is perfectly acceptable? Are you involved in coaching any sports teams for children under 18?

See how this all works? How easy it is to reverse? 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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I wonder what the NAACP in America thinks about all of this?

NAACP - that stands for National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

American spelling, of course.

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There is no more heinous a crime in modern society than using the incorrect term to describe either individuals or groups of people. It is a far greater threat to the future of mankind than COVID, Brexit or 5G.

 

 

 

Edited by Iwans Big Toe

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5 hours ago, WD40 said:

Didn’t he also suggest women don’t like being hit with a football, gay men have made a ‘lifestyle choice’ to be gay, and his IT department is made up of more south asians than Afro carribeans because of different ‘career interests’.

Was he playing some kind of offensive stereotype bingo in front of a parliamentary select committee? It really is like he was trying. Those individual remarks in isolation would have passed without comment but the whole performance was unacceptable.

Yes. Clarke is at best a dinosaur. Everyone knows (or anyone that bothers to read) that Coloured is inappropriate. Girls don’t like having a ball hit towards them, South Asians don’t want to be footballers (they prefer computers)  and gay people do so as a lifestyle choice ? Really ? This is the sort of claptrap we all heard in pubs in the 1980’s - not a man representing England  in the realms of the  biggest global game . 
 

f4cking good riddance . 

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5 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

Not a surprise that you’ve suddenly appeared 😉, don’t you ever describe people you’ve just seen or spoken to ? If he’d have been ginger or bald, or if it had been a girl with blue hair I would have described them that way.

Forgive me for turning up on a public forum! 

Not when it's not relevant, ie would you expect someone in M&S to say to a collegue can you show this bald gentleman / blue haired lady where the (insert product here) are please? 

🤔 

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5 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Yes. Clarke is at best a dinosaur. Everyone knows (or anyone that bothers to read) that Coloured is inappropriate. Girls don’t like having a ball hit towards them, South Asians don’t want to be footballers (they prefer computers)  and gay people do so as a lifestyle choice ? Really ? This is the sort of claptrap we all heard in pubs in the 1980’s - not a man representing England  in the realms of the  biggest global game . 
 

f4cking good riddance . 

I can understand holding that viewpoint of his if he is 83, but he is 63.    Thankfully he is very much in a small minority nowadays.

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20 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Forgive me for turning up on a public forum! 

Not when it's not relevant, ie would you expect someone in M&S to say to a collegue can you show this bald gentleman / blue haired lady where the (insert product here) are please? 

🤔 

If anyone else had made the same post as me you would have left well alone, regardless of it being a public forum.

As I’ve said people will always describe others in certain ways, if you’re  saying you don’t then you’re living in a different world to everyone else. 

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1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Yes. Clarke is at best a dinosaur. Everyone knows (or anyone that bothers to read) that Coloured is inappropriate. Girls don’t like having a ball hit towards them, South Asians don’t want to be footballers (they prefer computers)  and gay people do so as a lifestyle choice ? Really ? This is the sort of claptrap we all heard in pubs in the 1980’s - not a man representing England  in the realms of the  biggest global game . 
 

f4cking good riddance . 

But the lack of South Asian's who make it professionally in football is an interesting topic in itself, something like 0.25% of professional players in England are British Asian so massively under represented, whilst 25% of professional players are black. 

It used to be easily explained by cricket being their sport of choice, which held some weight in the 70's and probably 80's, but data shows that more British Asians play football as a percentage than White British kids. 

I had this conversation with a former work colleague of mine who played a bit of football and was capped by Pakistan when they played some friendlies in Europe, and he said that racism within football clubs and the fear of encountering racism in the footballing industry is part of that equation, but he put it mostly down to the expectations of their parents that they will excel at school and then go on to university to pursue a career which would give them status. He said that he had friends in academies who dropped off at 15/16 for that reason, rather than rejection. 

So the attitudes towards a career in football are probably irrelevant when polling young British Asians, but ask their cricket playing parents and grandparents and there is probably some truth in that. They probably do envisage their kids graduating and then working in software development or something. 

The girls not liking being hit hard by a football is an odd one, do boys like being hit hard with a football? Surely relative anyway, science may well tell us that they have a lower pain threshold, but its likely to tell us that they typically can't kick a ball as hard either, that for me was the oddest comment of the bunch. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I wonder what the NAACP in America thinks about all of this?

NAACP - that stands for National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

American spelling, of course.

Black coloured 

Damned if you do Damned if you don’t 

1.3 million people have died from COVID but black or coloured make the headlines 

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26 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The girls not liking being hit hard by a football is an odd one, do boys like being hit hard with a football?

As I’m sure we have all found out, it depends where you get hit 😁

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41 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

As I’m sure we have all found out, it depends where you get hit 😁

 Very valid point Franko.  😵

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2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Forgive me for turning up on a public forum! 

Not when it's not relevant, ie would you expect someone in M&S to say to a collegue can you show this bald gentleman / blue haired lady where the (insert product here) are please? 

🤔 

The product is bread Greavsy.

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2 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

If anyone else had made the same post as me you would have left well alone, regardless of it being a public forum.

As I’ve said people will always describe others in certain ways, if you’re  saying you don’t then you’re living in a different world to everyone else. 

Jeez FF, get over yourself. Touch of dejavu in your post. Are you trying to turn yourself into a victim. Prickely much? 

In certain circumstances I do, and agree, where identification is necessary. My point of why is it relevent who unlocked the door stand. Yet again you've not answered the question asked. Unsurprising you've missed the point, again. 

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3 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

There is no more heinous a crime in modern society than using the incorrect term to describe either individuals or groups of people. It is a far greater threat to the future of mankind than COVID, Brexit or 5G.

 

 

 

Says who exactly?

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1 hour ago, daly said:

Black coloured 

Damned if you do Damned if you don’t 

1.3 million people have died from COVID but black or coloured make the headlines 

Again, making stuff up. Are you trying to say that there are more headlines about Greg Clarke than COVID? 

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Christmas as a child wasn't complete without a trip to see the Spinners at the Theatre Royal and I remember them doing a song about a blacksmith and Cliff (who was black) interrupting and saying it should be 'coloured smith', to much laughter from the audience. This would have been the early 80s and I'm not sure when 'coloured' fell out of favour but it wasn't long after that.

The main issue with Greg Clarke's comments are that they show him to be out of touch and for someone in his position it's an important part of his job to be on top of these issues therefore it was right for him to resign.

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‘ Coloured ‘ was the term used for anyone not white in America during segregation. This seat is if you are ‘ White ‘ This seat is for if you are ‘ Coloured ‘. 
Historically, this word is associated with segregation, especially in the United States, where blacks were kept separate from whites. Private restrooms, buses, and even drinking water fountains are "only for colored people".
Those are the reasons it became a serious insult in America initially.

 

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5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I wonder what the NAACP in America thinks about all of this?

NAACP - that stands for National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

American spelling, of course.

 

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Again, making stuff up. Are you trying to say that there are more headlines about Greg Clarke than COVID? 

Not making anything up just putting things into perspective, media going overboard whether it should be Black or Coloured when we have the worst  pandemic the world has ever known.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, daly said:

 

Not making anything up just putting things into perspective, media going overboard whether it should be Black or Coloured when we have the worst  pandemic the world has ever known.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Believe it or not, despite Covid 19. the world still turns . Fortunately,

 

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1 hour ago, daly said:

 

Not making anything up just putting things into perspective, media going overboard whether it should be Black or Coloured when we have the worst  pandemic the world has ever known.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

“Media going overboard”? One day’s headlines when Covid-19 has been in the press since January and will be for years to come. You said “1.3 million people have died from COVID but black or coloured make the headlines “ - the implication being that there’s more noise about Greg Clarke than Covid. That is just not true. It’s like IWT saying “There is no more heinous a crime in modern society than using the incorrect term to describe either individuals or groups of people “ which again is obviously rubbish. But if enough people repeat rubbish often enough, it starts to become accepted, whether it’s straight bananas, Winterval or 5G causing Covid.

if you can’t support your argument with a decent, factual case, don’t complain when it gets dismissed or even ridiculed.

 

 

Edited by Nuff Said

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8 hours ago, Hairy Canary said:

The guy was ham fisted in his replies and that’s being generous. Probably for the best that he has gone if his views and thinking are that outdated.

Having said that I see Cardinal Vincent Nicholls has decided against resigning even though he has been heavily criticised over child abuse cover up in the church. Double standards all over the place in public life.

This ^^

It wasn't just one word, it was much more. And it was the use of heavy stereotyping of more than one group of people. Not only that but he was in a very professional forum which in turn is a very public forum due to the representatives and reporters there.

Some might describe that as a bit of a liability. And when one of your roles is to ensure equality, it doesn't really grow confidence...

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5 hours ago, Well b back said:

‘ Coloured ‘ was the term used for anyone not white in America during segregation. This seat is if you are ‘ White ‘ This seat is for if you are ‘ Coloured ‘. 
Historically, this word is associated with segregation, especially in the United States, where blacks were kept separate from whites. Private restrooms, buses, and even drinking water fountains are "only for colored people".
Those are the reasons it became a serious insult in America initially.

 

I can understand the thinking behind your explanation but I fail to see why 'people of colour' would then be acceptable. Any thoughts about that?

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The story has gone predictably in that the focus has been on him using the wrong term, not the underlying issues that his opinions highlight. So it is now all either 'Greg Clarke is racist!' or 'OMG you can't say anything these days without politically correct snowflakes demanding you be fired!' when that isn't really the issue.

The FA as an organization has a significant role to play in terms of improving the games diversity and inclusion. To move that forward you need a Chairman who understands the issues at hand. So the questions become...

  • Do I trust someone to put in place a success anti-racism strategy when he doesn't seem to realise the word 'coloured' fell out of generally acceptable vernacular years ago
  • If I'm an British Asian footballer or a coach working with British Asian youths do I have faith in the FA to help with programmes to make them feel included in football when he thinks that they'd rather be working in IT?
  • Do I trust someone to help promote and grow the womens game when he claims 'girls don't like having the ball kicked at them hard?'
  • If I'm a gay footballer thinking about coming out, do I trust I'll be supported when the Chairman of the FA refers to my sexuality as a 'lifestyle choice?'

I think the answer to all four of these is no.

 

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8 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I can understand the thinking behind your explanation but I fail to see why 'people of colour' would then be acceptable. Any thoughts about that?

I find the term racist and was explaining where it came from, why are you suggesting differently ?

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