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Rhino1

Farke does not get the credit he deserves

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Our manager does not the credit he deserves, there are far too many fans are one bad performance from getting on his back. This is the best man manager we have had city for decades. His decision today was quite inspired and yes he maybe a touch fortunate it turned out so well, I was more impressed with his bravery for trying it. Willing to try something different. Yes like many last year I used to whinge and shout for subs earlier, but give him his dues he is a brave manager, and I for one hope he is city manager for many years to come!!

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Totally agree. His management of young players alone is exceptional, as evidenced by the sales we made. I've not seen many managers so consistently willing to push youngsters along and give them game time and, just as importantly, have a knack of seeing just when they're ready to play a decent part and not just patch up a hole.

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Agree with you Rhino. I’ve always had confidence in him for the past 2 years. Although he often still makes late subs he has started making some earlier, and maybe he should give man to man marking a try. What I would also like him to do is come up with an alternative formation and defensive tactics, which we may need next season if we go straight back up. Have hated those who’ve constantly called for him to go every time we fail to win or put off a poor performance

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1 minute ago, Kenny Foggo said:

His subs were great today, not always been the case. 

They've been pretty good this season already. Vrancic (twice) and McLean, then this Mumba cameo.

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43 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

His subs were great today, not always been the case. 

Probably when he didn't have the players on the bench to make the difference?

Or it could also be that a young manager, who already won a league title in pretty much miraculous conditions, is learning and improving?

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Farke's subs have been rightly praised but it helps having a bench full of quality at championship level.

Farke's subs were often unjustly criticised when he didn't have a bench full of quality at PL level.

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56 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

His subs were great today, not always been the case. 

You could say that about Alex Ferguson. Step back and look at the bigger picture and he gets it right far more than average (accepting for the injury hit Prem campaign in which he simply had few/poor options).

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I will give him credit for improving his use of subs. He’s doing it earlier this season and they are influencing the outcome of games.

having said that I still think he made them too late yesterday and if their finishing had been better we could have been behind. Their manager made a tactical switch at half time which worked and changed the game and it did take us half an hour to respond. 

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

I will give him credit for improving his use of subs. He’s doing it earlier this season and they are influencing the outcome of games.

having said that I still think he made them too late yesterday and if their finishing had been better we could have been behind. Their manager made a tactical switch at half time which worked and changed the game and it did take us half an hour to respond. 

Why respond when you're not seeing it working? 

Christ you have no clue.

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

I will give him credit for improving his use of subs. He’s doing it earlier this season and they are influencing the outcome of games.

having said that I still think he made them too late yesterday and if their finishing had been better we could have been behind. Their manager made a tactical switch at half time which worked and changed the game and it did take us half an hour to respond. 

"Improving his use of subs"

Like Nutty says, it's about having options.

Swansea changed their shape at half time which helped them. But we still won and clearly the timing of our subs was correct because...we won.

Clearly the timings of our other subs were correct because...we won.

We've changed shape several times this season and won from that alongside subs too.

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Farke is a managerial genius given the assets as his disposal. Imagine the outcome had we decided to engage with the premier league season instead of conceding in August.

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3 hours ago, Highland Canary said:

instead of conceding in August

You might have. No one inside the Club did. They just realised that spending what little money we had  available was unlikely  to  make much of a difference to the outcome of the season. Were you in a coma when all of this was explained by SW several times  , or are you a bit Tronald Dump , refusing to accept what is in fact, a fact.

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4 hours ago, hogesar said:

"Improving his use of subs"

Like Nutty says, it's about having options.

Swansea changed their shape at half time which helped them. But we still won and clearly the timing of our subs was correct because...we won.

Clearly the timings of our other subs were correct because...we won.

We've changed shape several times this season and won from that alongside subs too.

I still think it was valid to question his use of substitutes last season. Unless we were losing, he literally never made subs before the 75th minute unless someone was injured. We lost a colossal amount of points from winning positions (12 in December alone, IIRC), failed to gain a single point from a losing position, and those last 10 games were horrendous (the lack of investment in the squad was a factor, but not the only factor).

That we largely seem to have forgotten quite how painful that surrender was is testament to his ability to regenerate and motivate his players. This season has seen a marked improvement in making earlier substitutions, and ones that affect the outcomes of matches. He's still a young manager, and he's still learning and adapting. I've loved him since day one, and whomever we replace him with when he eventually leaves will have remarkably big shoes to fill.

Edited by Feedthewolf
Typo

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23 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I still think it was valid to question his use of substitutes last season. Unless we were losing, he literally never made subs before the 75th minute unless someone was injured. We lost a colossal amount of points from winning positions (12 in December alone, IIRC), failed to gain a single point from a losing position, and those last 10 games were horrendous (the lack of investment in the squad was a factor, but not the only factor).

I think blaming subs is a really lazy thing to throw at any manager personally. Again, sometimes just throwing on a random attacker is the easy decision because fans, as we've just proven, claim that "at least he tried something".

Whats always ignored is not making a sub is just as equal a decision. Of course, we can say that decision didnt work last season but equally there is little to show we had the players required to make a difference on the bench. For all we know making changes could have simply seen us concede far more goals.

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27 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I still think it was valid to question his use of substitutes last season. Unless we were losing, he literally never made subs before the 75th minute unless someone was injured. We lost a colossal amount of points from winning positions (12 in December alone, IIRC), failed to gain a single point from a losing position, and those last 10 games were horrendous (the lack of investment in the squad was a factor, but not the only factor).

That we largely seem to have forgotten quite how painful that surrender was is testament to his ability to regenerate and motivate his players. This season has seen a marked improvement in making earlier substitutions, and ones that affect the outcomes of matches. He's still a young manager, and he's still learning and adapting. I've loved him since day one, and whomever we replace him with when he eventually leaves will have remarkably big shoes to fill.

I agree with every word of this. He has been brilliant for us, done a fantastic job and we could not have wished for better when he took charge. However, he is not beyond reproach and he will make mistakes. These can be pointed out and complained about whilst still appreciating that he is good.

He is easily my favourite manager. I hope he stays with his heart yellow for many, many years to come.

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10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think blaming subs is a really lazy thing to throw at any manager personally. Again, sometimes just throwing on a random attacker is the easy decision because fans, as we've just proven, claim that "at least he tried something".

Whats always ignored is not making a sub is just as equal a decision. Of course, we can say that decision didnt work last season but equally there is little to show we had the players required to make a difference on the bench. For all we know making changes could have simply seen us concede far more goals.

Of course we'll never know what would have happened. But there were so many games where the momentum shifted away from us due to opposition substitutions when our players were visibly tiring and/or running out of ideas. It's not 'lazy' criticism; like any criticism, it's based on my interpretation of events, and I still believe that an unwillingness to make substitutions earlier than the 75th minute was a contributing factor to the huge number of points we lost from winning positions, and for our failure to win a single point from a losing position. If you don't agree, that's fine.

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11 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Of course we'll never know what would have happened. But there were so many games where the momentum shifted away from us due to opposition substitutions when our players were visibly tiring and/or running out of ideas. It's not 'lazy' criticism; like any criticism, it's based on my interpretation of events, and I still believe that an unwillingness to make substitutions earlier than the 75th minute was a contributing factor to the huge number of points we lost from winning positions, and for our failure to win a single point from a losing position. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I'm not saying your specific criticism from you is lazy, I'm saying the 'substitute argument' is one of THE lazy criticisms labelled at any manager who isn't winning games. Any manager under pressure or not performing and one of the first things is always substitutes.

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13 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Of course we'll never know what would have happened. But there were so many games where the momentum shifted away from us due to opposition substitutions when our players were visibly tiring and/or running out of ideas. It's not 'lazy' criticism; like any criticism, it's based on my interpretation of events, and I still believe that an unwillingness to make substitutions earlier than the 75th minute was a contributing factor to the huge number of points we lost from winning positions, and for our failure to win a single point from a losing position. If you don't agree, that's fine.

I think we would need to look at each game as our substitutes might not have had the quality to make an impact! Pukki was carrying an injury, we had Idah who’s very green, Steipermann who really didn’t look any good, so I’m at a loss to see how early subs would have changed much! We just didn’t have the quality in depth last season. So I can understand why Farke didn’t make many changes.

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This fully justified praise for Farke right now does however make me wonder what the devil went on in that atrocious 14 game game after Lockdown 1 when we played without an absolute whimper and he sat motionless in the dugout. Use of substitutions i am sure not mystified just me and yet here we are back in The Championship and he is getting it spot on.

 

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20 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

This fully justified praise for Farke right now does however make me wonder what the devil went on in that atrocious 14 game game after Lockdown 1 when we played without an absolute whimper and he sat motionless in the dugout. Use of substitutions i am sure not mystified just me and yet here we are back in The Championship and he is getting it spot on.

Yeah, thinking about it there might just be something in the point @Indy makes above - that he was so reluctant to make substitutions because he didn't believe he had the quality of players to compete at the top level.

I think it's probably a combination of that, plus the fact that the games are so compressed this season that he knows he needs more rotation in the team - both between games, and within games.

Whatever the cause, it's great that he's become more proactive in using the bench. Long may it continue.

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1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Yeah, thinking about it there might just be something in the point @Indy makes above - that he was so reluctant to make substitutions because he didn't believe he had the quality of players to compete at the top level.

I think it's probably a combination of that, plus the fact that the games are so compressed this season that he knows he needs more rotation in the team - both between games, and within games.

Whatever the cause, it's great that he's become more proactive in using the bench. Long may it continue.

Imagine what Farke / Webber could do with a decent budget in the top flight? I really rate Farke, Webber I had my reservation about but he’s been very good for us! 
I’m sure next time round we might just have a decent young squad with money to add?

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7 minutes ago, Indy said:

Imagine what Farke / Webber could do with a decent budget in the top flight? I really rate Farke, Webber I had my reservation about but he’s been very good for us! 
I’m sure next time round we might just have a decent young squad with money to add?

If we can get up this season, I think we'll have an outstanding chance of staying up if the board are prepared to give us a more realistic outlay. Once the market recovers post-Covid, Aarons and Buendia alone could recoup us £50m, which could then be reinvested.

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4 minutes ago, Indy said:

Imagine what Farke / Webber could do with a decent budget in the top flight? I really rate Farke, Webber I had my reservation about but he’s been very good for us! 
I’m sure next time round we might just have a decent young squad with money to add?

It’s been a real joy to see the quality young players we have brought through in recent years and it appears to be continuing. We are far from being the only club looking to adopt this model and it’s a competitive niche in the market but we seem to get it right with the lads we bring in more often than not. Well done Webber!
Also a shout out for Skip who I thought had a good game yesterday and appears to have cemented his place, generally I would prefer to buy in our youngsters and develop them for our own benefit, but in this case I make an exception.😁

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Lots said about Farkes use of substitutes last season, and I get that frustration, but he was learning as well, he had come from a much smaller role in Germany. But this is why he is so impressive he’s learned and taken on board and his use of subs this year is far improved. Lots of other things he has done, goes by without comment. Everybody shouts about how he brings the youngsters through. How many of us thought there was a real player in Rupp, he did and persisted, who would have gambled with Aaron’s vs the scum, who would have dropped his best two players Buendia and Cantwell when the easiest thing would be to play them. No convinced he’s the real deal! 

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2 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

If we can get up this season, I think we'll have an outstanding chance of staying up if the board are prepared to give us a more realistic outlay. Once the market recovers post-Covid, Aarons and Buendia alone could recoup us £50m, which could then be reinvested.

Only problem is it won’t be it won’t be if for example the two you named leave. 

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