hogesar 10,530 Posted October 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said: Are you enjoying the season? I’m quite impressed really. It’s so hard shaking off a losing mentality so hats off to Farke for galvanising the players to perform. Norwich still haven’t played a great game for 90 minutes but the results of late should help. Hopefully it all comes together on a consistent basis before the next transfer window opens. I'm not adjusting well to not being at games and just having to watch on iFollow, but I think our results and performances have been slightly better than what I expected early on. I thought the relegation hangover might see us midtable outside the playoffs at this stage. You? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 4,659 Posted October 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, hogesar said: I'm not adjusting well to not being at games and just having to watch on iFollow, but I think our results and performances have been slightly better than what I expected early on. I thought the relegation hangover might see us midtable outside the playoffs at this stage. You? We need to be firmly in the mix come January and I think we will be. Norwich have the best squad of players in this league so if they are committed (the key players that don’t have to named) then we will be fine. When it all comes together for a full 90 minutes someone is going to take a big hiding from us. Fingers crossed it’s very soon and the scar of relegation is completely banished. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 2,026 Posted October 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said: We need to be firmly in the mix come January and I think we will be. Norwich have the best squad of players in this league so if they are committed (the key players that don’t have to named) then we will be fine. When it all comes together for a full 90 minutes someone is going to take a big hiding from us. Fingers crossed it’s very soon and the scar of relegation is completely banished. Watford lost enough players in the summer to ensure they arent going to be 100 points 100 goals contenders.....but they still retained enough to be mote than good enough to be in the top 2. I'd still say they have the best squad ...take a few out of ours...ie Hernandez Dowell Byram ..now Quintilla , I'm not sure ours is that strong overall. Lopsided in numbers in midfield , very thin elsewhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 4,659 Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said: Watford lost enough players in the summer to ensure they arent going to be 100 points 100 goals contenders.....but they still retained enough to be mote than good enough to be in the top 2. I'd still say they have the best squad ...take a few out of ours...ie Hernandez Dowell Byram ..now Quintilla , I'm not sure ours is that strong overall. Lopsided in numbers in midfield , very thin elsewhere Brentford and Bournemouth joint favourites to win the league at present, Watford followed by Norwich next. 13/2 seems quite generous to me and you’d guess there’s finances available to consolidate a promotion push come January. Edited October 28, 2020 by Midlands Yellow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, kirku said: But that's not how you presented it, is it? You called both heads and tails and now, when the coin has been flipped, want to tell everyone about how brilliant your prediction was. Remember that time when you kept giving me grief for suggesting that Pukki should be given a go at number 10 Kirku? Here are a couple of those posts: On 05/10/2019 at 16:02, kirku said: Another dreadful suggestion. Drop our most effective striker (by a country mile) into the 10 On 24/01/2020 at 16:49, kirku said: Think that was after you'd advocated that "anyone with a brain" could see that Pukki or Drmic should play in attacking midfield. Aged well, that one. On 05/10/2019 at 16:58, kirku said: Hilarious. Playing Pukki in the hole is "a good idea to anybody with a brain"!? Call an ambulance, my sides have split. Oh look.... is this Kirku just 15 hours ago suggesting that Pukki dropping to number 10 was a tactical option during the Brentford game? 15 hours ago, kirku said: Placheta with Todd/Emi moving inside. Or Hugill and Pukki dropping to 10. That aged well didn't it. Can all have a little delve around in the archives can't we. Clueless pr!ck. Edited October 28, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pete 362 Posted October 28, 2020 Placheta played wide left but every time that position was taken by Pukki. Placheta given no balls to use his pace had to operate deeper. Pukki who received passes on left didn't have the pace to benefit and act as a proper winger. To use his pace need to use him properly as an attacking option. You don't know what instruction Platecha given might have been to operate left midfield in a deeper role and Pukki further forward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gordon Bennett 901 Posted October 28, 2020 He looks a bit raw but like many of his team mates before him he is having to adjust to a new country and football competition. Think he needs more than half a dozen games or whatever it is before being judged. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,358 Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said: Remember that time when you kept giving me grief for suggesting that Pukki should be given a go at number 10 Kirku? That aged well didn't it. Can all have a little delve around in the archives can't we. Clueless pr!ck. You were advocating for dropping Pukki into 10 to accommodate Drmic. The same Drmic you later went on to call, along with Rupp, "sh*t". Do you still think that would've been a good decision? Fact is, you're in this thread trying to portray how good your judgement of players is and how you bucked the Rupp-bashing trend of last year. But it's all a load of self-aggrandising nonsense, isn't it? Whatever makes you feel better about yourself, I suppose. It's just all rather obvious and infantile, especially when you resort to calling people "pr!cks" for pointing it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 28, 2020 13 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: It will look cheap the moment he either: a) Wins them a £100m+ promotion to the Premier League or.. b) Equals the £20m fee they received for Neil Maupey (bought for £1.8m), or the £23m they received for Ollie Watkins (bought for £1.8m). Brentford know what they are doing when investing in the transfer market.... more so perhaps than any other team in this division. As I said, he could prove to be. No doubt they are happy with him at the moment. Promotion isn't worth £100m+ in your lap, that includes the parachute payments. And anyone promoted this season or next can expect to face harsher financial boundaries due to the results of Covid on the game, eg; no home attendances - or at best, greatly reduced should they return before the end of the season. And at this point, we would have to be saying it is certainly not looking likely until at least the New Year now. Then you have the football league struggling financially and the premier league agreeing to help bail them out. That won't come at no cost so either the premier league teams will take a shared hit or it will come at some point later. The value of promotion has never looked as ropey as it does now. Increased player wages, the project thrown down but rejected at least shone some light on what the future may hold in terms of the larger clubs looking to sell their own games on their own platforms. Other than that I agree. Brentford, for the most part, seem to be doing ok in terms of recruitment. I wouldn't say best in this division as they haven't been able to find the balance and success to earn promotion as of yet and they are not without some that haven't worked out as well either. 5 hours ago, king canary said: This thread does make me wonder two things... 1) Do we need some explainer at the top of this forum about what a 'discussion forum' actually is? I don't personally agree with TVB's view but the fact is this forum is for discussing all things Norwich City- sometimes, thinking a player is not very good is going to be expressed as an opinion. The amount of pearl clutching over this always makes me laugh. 2) Does anyone actually think Placheta is reading this? I doubt a young, successful footballer settling into life in a new country is regularly checking out the pinkun forum and having his confidence knocked by people not thinking he's all that. Sure, if this post was made on Instagram or Twitter and the player was tagged in it then that is ****ty behaviour- but the idea that putting a post on this forum somehow affects the player in question is pretty laughable. The first point you make is a bit ironic. People have every right to express their opinion. So if people express theirs which underlines their disagreement is that not the same? I think the real issue comes when people are rarely positive, or make several harsh and relatively un-based views following a similar theme. Though at this point I am not sure I would put TVB into that category, though it is clear he enjoys a bit of interaction and seems to shoulder most of the responses well enough without getting unreasonable about it. As for the second point - this forum is just one of many platforms on the internet. Forums themselves seem to have suffered over the last 15years with a preference instead for social media. Many people in this forum share twitter/instagram/facebook posts etc from players, agents and journalists. I think it is very fair to say that some of these opinions are not uniquely expressed on the pinkun forum. We already have evidence of negative social media comments impacting upon player confidence etc. It doesn't just have to be the player either, a member of their family, a friend etc. I do think people can be fairer and less harsh in stating their views. For example stating a player is "crap". I have no time for it. That sentiment in it's own right is utter idiocy and carries no message other than the intent to slag a player off. What does it mean? I would much rather see someone give a decent reasoned opinion of why they feel at this moment a player may struggle to make the mark. I would respect that. That is inviting discussion and displays someone who is capable of reasonable thought. The discussion on this thread is a bit like that. Someone disagrees, then the other person goes back several months to try and trawl up something that the other person wasn't correct about. Being right or wrong is only part of it, it's being open to being wrong and accepting being wrong. That's what a lot of people seem to struggle with. "I got it wrong". I hoped and felt that Drmic could give us something different. He was given his chance last season and didn't live up to my expectations. Was I wrong to hope? No. Was I wrong to see what he could offer was different? No. Was I wrong about being able to play at PL level? On last season, yes. Strangely, though supportive of Rupp and identifying several qualities, I am not yet prepared to say that he was a good signing. We need to see more of what he has been giving over the last few games before we can really say he is preforming consistently at the level required. The main difference between him and Placheta and judging them though, is that Rupp is 29. He is at the peak of his career. Bar settling into the English game, you would be fair to judge him on more polished skills as a matured prime of his career player. At 22, Placheta is the same age as Cantwell but not having experience such a high level of football. Like Cantwell, and Buendia, they are still a couple of years away before being considered in the prime of their careers which tends to be 26/27-30/31. You have to expect a bit of rawness, a few rough edges to be polished and refined. As I mentioned previously, this has been identified about Placheta by Farke. There is work to be done on him, and from what we have seen so far, he is a worthy out-ball, there won't be many that can keep up with him and he can cross. He was brought in for his pace, which we seriously lacked last season in the premier league. And I am prepared to give him more time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 28, 2020 6 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: That's fair, I'm being a bit premature, he could do a Vrancic and rapidly improve. BUT....... Another left sided speed merchant, Raymond De Waard, is consistently making the "worst ever Norwich player" threads on here, after being given just 10 appearances to adjust to English football before being written off and discarded. Placheta is already on 6. So I can't help but feel that double standards are often applied. I started the thread "worst Norwich players you've ever seen" in July, and don't see anybody getting outaged by the inclusion of.... Raymond De Waard (10 games) Philip Heise (1 game) Goran Maric (2 games) Theoklitos (1 game) All of whom had also come from a different country. I'm hardly including Placheta on that list, but you can add Marcel Franke (5 games) to the list of players who are universally admonished as not to the required standard. Ah but TVB, this is football. You can't listen to every voice out there and take them that seriously. I remember moaning about the football under Brian Hamilton, but that was because we had just had Rioch who had instilled some level of respectability back to us (those were the years of my cheap rate youth season ticket. I want to say U18's but I can't remember now). Rioch brought in some exciting players who seemed to hit the ground running in de Blassiis and Anselin. They were technically better on the ball and more pleasing on the eye. Hamilton's sides were more rugged. I would have been one of the ones not rating De Waard, but more time to reflect has allowed me to see that criticism was largely unfair. The side back then had gone through some quick transitions, and we had brought in some over the hill players to flesh out the squad that didn't work out. The club struggled for identity in how it was to play and Hamilton didn't inspire folks that it was going to change anytime soon. Worthington came in and wanted his philosophy to shape the squad. I seem to remember him saying the squad was too big and wanting to try and keep the numbers of players down. It also needed rebuilding, and to be fair, he did admirably with a fairly limited budget. It was unfortunate that some of those players came in when they did as I think they were caught in changing tides and looked a bit out of depth, perhaps unfairly. Heise isn't a bad player, he's certainly not been really poor. I feel that as with some of the players sent out on loan, that we may have signed him for an eventuality that never really occurred. And then you have a 27-29 year old, in the pomp of his footballing career sitting around wanting to play football. Promotion meant that Lewis became a more expensive player and one willing to remain at the club for a Premier League campaign. Heise, I believe, was signed to be a championship player on the eventuality that Lewis would be sold should we not gain promotion - as there were many rumoured parties interested back then. It's just how life is. You have to look at each player on their own merit. Some people will try and judge them far too quickly, and this has happened in recent years a fair amount due to the current regime signing a fair number of players in January with the idea of giving them more time to settle in England and to get to know the English game. Hernandez, Leitner etc. My personal preference, due to years of watching, playing and managing, is that you need to give players the chance and opportunity to find what their consistency level is. Players can be amazing in their first game for a club, even their first five games, then fizzle out as oppositions get wise to them and they are 'found out' due to only having one 'trick' to their game etc. Equally, some players take time to warm into a regular professional role, which can be said of players experiencing English football for the first time from abroad or youngsters coming through. You also have to take a fair bit of what the coaches working with them have to say. And at the end of the day, sometimes it just doesn't work out. It's not that a player is crap, it's that for whatever reason, it just isn't working at our club. There are many examples of that in football. The right player, at one club at the right moment with the right team and coaches around them. Again, like Grant Holt. Struggled to settle and considered to be a regular or good player at a number of sides before coming to Norwich. Who was to know that his playing partnership with Hoolahan was to be such a success? Would Holt have been without Hoolahan? Who knew when he was signed that we would quickly end up with Lambert as manager who built a side around Holt and Hoolahan? Getting things right or wrong is meh to me. You can claim it all you like. I can claim I was right about Vrancic and Rupp, against popular criticism on here and elsewhere. Does it matter that I was correct and others weren't? No. I'm most happy because it means our team is doing well, and I want that more than anything else. For our fans to be happy and invested in that collective happiness that a successful team and club can bring. Though I do think people are guilty of over egging players like Vrancic at times. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr Greenthumb 782 Posted October 28, 2020 6 hours ago, hogesar said: I wasn't criticising you specifically - it's just Rupp was a good general example. I don't think I ever claimed Husband was the future, although I'm sure i've been positive about players who ended up being rubbish. I think it's more that your claim Placheta looks well out of his depth is a bit harsh - he's not had loads of minutes and when he has he's generally crossed pretty well and of course, got himself a goal. He is far from out of his depth in this league. I generally think he looked decent last night and a few more games and we could have a very good outlet on our hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 29, 2020 10 hours ago, kirku said: Fact is, you're in this thread trying to portray how good your judgement of players is and how you bucked the Rupp-bashing trend of last year. If you must know, I'm just quite emotive and not always the most rational person on match days. Call me fickle if you want, but this can manifest itself in being a bit rash with criticism or OTT with praise, and you finding posts from me which praise Rupp and criticise Rupp only support that. What I object to is the idea that I'm a habitual or prolific player basher, if you want an example of me going OTT in the other direction then I'll dig up the thread where I say that Adam Idah is going to be a World Class player, the new Robbie Keane that Ireland have been crying out for, and will be a global superstar. Also posted on a matchday, the Preston cup game of course! Or I can show you the time I called Todd Cantwell as important to Norwich as Fernando Torres was to Atletico Madrid if you want, followed by the several times I've said I wish we can just sell the little twit. I'm sure people will find it far more believable that I just get a bit over excited or overly down on matchdays than your position, which seems to be a belief that I intentionally and prolifically litter the forum with a variety of contradictory views at various different points in history, then bookmark them in case I need something to support an agenda like I'm Donald Trump gaslighting for redneck votes on twitter or a cockney spiv trying to sell horseracing tips. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,697 Posted October 29, 2020 The past and present wilt—I have fill'd them, emptied them. And proceed to fill my next fold of the future. Listener up there! what have you to confide to me? Look in my face while I snuff the sidle of evening,(Talk honestly, no one else hears you, and I stay only a minute longer.) Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Walt Whitman 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 29, 2020 On that basis TVB you can hardly criticise anyone else for their views that may or may not change and may or may not be correct. You've also, in the process, undermined your argument that you are usually right and only got it wrong twice by essentially admitting even a stopped clock is right twice a day (mechanical for those of you who only know digital, stopped digital clocks are just blank). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pockthorpe 612 Posted October 29, 2020 On 27/10/2020 at 22:08, TeemuVanBasten said: or a career in retail? What the hell is wrong with that ? We all have to make our way and do what we have to . Or maybe you don’t . I’m sure Placheta , a young lad with limited English , limited knowledge of the Championship, limited knowledge of what Farke wants from him , no mates or family here will appreciate the vote of confidence. Classy TVB . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ron obvious 1,697 Posted October 29, 2020 48 minutes ago, chicken said: On that basis TVB you can hardly criticise anyone else for their views that may or may not change and may or may not be correct. You've also, in the process, undermined your argument that you are usually right and only got it wrong twice by essentially admitting even a stopped clock is right twice a day (mechanical for those of you who only know digital, stopped digital clocks are just blank). Additionally, stopped analogue clocks are mathematically correct twice a day. Digital clocks can never be mathematically correct. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Pockthorpe said: What the hell is wrong with that? There's nothing wrong with it, they just don't earn thousands a week and Topman don't spend a seven figure sum to acquire somebody from H&M. 1 hour ago, Pockthorpe said: with limited English , limited knowledge of the Championship, limited knowledge of what Farke wants from him , no mates or family here will appreciate the vote of confidence. Oh right, because Norwich fans definitely used all those mitigating circumstances when Raymond De Waard was dumped after 6 starts didn't they, or Heise, or Franke. But I've already acknowledged in a subsequent post that I can be rash with my judgements, so bore off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, chicken said: On that basis TVB you can hardly criticise anyone else for their views that may or may not change and may or may not be correct. Sorry but who's views am I criticizing? This was about people taking exception to me sharing my opinion about Placheta looking to lack ability (whilst bizarrely ignoring the Hanley and Buendia ones started by other people, wonder why). I was showing Kirku that we can all have a route around in the archive and be selective about posts can't we, I was only doing to him what he was doing to me to illustrate that point. Lets not forget the other time these same posters fancying ganging up for writing pretty much word for word what Farke and Webber both said about the makeup of our team in the summer and wanting a bit more physicality. I hope this thread doesn't prove to be another time that I've just spotted the obvious before it became a mainstream view, I'd much rather we'd it prove the case that we've signed a winger who can magically develop a footballing brain and a decent first touch over the coming months. Edited October 29, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 29, 2020 This is about the third or fourth point you are trying to make now TVB. And it seems a lot like because you are trying to avoid dealing with the challenges of the point you originally made. You are now also resorting to the "I'm getting ganged up on" reasoning. I've not been around consistently enough to be able to know who gangs up on who, but if you feel that strongly ping a message to the forum admin as I'm sure they'll listen. From my POV though, you've put out an opinion, of a brand new, young player and it would appear by your responses, with the idea that you would be flooded with admiration for it. The fact that not one person has really agreed with you speaks volumes. My advice would be to learn to adapt and change the language of what you want to say. As I said earlier in this thread, you haven't actually said anything particularly new or insightful about Placheta - Farke himself identified that he is not the finished article but he was brought in for his pace and the ability he has shown already. If he had pace and the skill and guile, he wouldn't be coming to us and would be attracting the interest of top tier teams around Europe. There really was no need to not only insult the player but people who work various jobs in our community, especially this year of all years when those people you absentmindedly belittle have been the backbone to society continuing to operate during lockdown. Again, as I said much earlier on, keep making the same mistakes, keep doing something the same way, getting the same responses and blaming the responses is pretty close to the definition of insanity. I first joined this forum way back in 1998, and it taught me a great deal about how to consider the points you want to put across. Admitting that you flip flop your opinions depending upon how you feel after a game isn't going to endear you to anyone you have just heavily criticised for not getting predictions about players right. Apart from anything else, football is a complex puzzle of many parts, again, identified before. It's best not to get all worked up and critical of players until they have had a chance. Flippant knee jerk reactions bare no real weight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said: Oh right, because Norwich fans definitely used all those mitigating circumstances when Raymond De Waard was dumped after 6 starts didn't they, or Heise, or Franke. You say this like there was a vast amount of vitriol and slagging off of those players - to the best of my knowledge there wasn't. More a sense of "well, they didn't set the world alight so not really fussed". I've seen a few complimentary comments about Heise, in a similar way to Passlack we had on loan at right back. It just so happened that Lewis and Aarons played so well and so consistently without injury or dips in form that neither got much of a look in. But again, what you are doing here is asking why people are responding to your post in this way or saying your judgement is unfair after a similar amount of games. It doesn't actually matter. Those are different players. We are talking about Placheta and people strongly disagree with you. Your point ignores things like age, experience, shape of the club when they came in, expectations at the time and what the manager said of them etc when they arrived. Stating the outcomes of previous examples and said discussions doesn't change their opinion because it's largely irrelevant. It just seems to underline your frustration that people in general aren't agreeing with you. And instead of accepting that you are going further and further away from the original post and questions asked in it to find a victory to defeat that particular challenger. Not many people will still care that much, or remember the comments around De Waard from 20 years ago, nor will care much about them. I was 18 back then, I didn't have the life experience or the knowledge I have now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, chicken said: You say this like there was a vast amount of vitriol and slagging off of those players - to the best of my knowledge there wasn't. More a sense of "well, they didn't set the world alight so not really fussed" Right, and.... On 27/10/2020 at 22:08, TeemuVanBasten said: I know some players take time to adjust and eventually come good. But has anybody else looked at him and just wondered whether he's playing at the right level No vitriol here either, retail comment a bit harsh perhaps. Where are we actually going here? I just haven't been impressed by Placheta, I hope I will be in time, I was asking if anybody else had similar thoughts... nobody exactly came along and said he looked like he had the world at his feet and predicted greatness did they. A couple of people said it is too early, I conceded that and agreed that its early days. But my skeptism is bourne out of quite a few unsuccessful signings in the last 18 months, where few signings have come good. Just move on. Edited October 29, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 4,659 Posted October 30, 2020 23 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: If you must know, I'm just quite emotive and not always the most rational person on match days. Call me fickle if you want, but this can manifest itself in being a bit rash with criticism or OTT with praise, and you finding posts from me which praise Rupp and criticise Rupp only support that. What I object to is the idea that I'm a habitual or prolific player basher, if you want an example of me going OTT in the other direction then I'll dig up the thread where I say that Adam Idah is going to be a World Class player, the new Robbie Keane that Ireland have been crying out for, and will be a global superstar. Also posted on a matchday, the Preston cup game of course! Or I can show you the time I called Todd Cantwell as important to Norwich as Fernando Torres was to Atletico Madrid if you want, followed by the several times I've said I wish we can just sell the little twit. I'm sure people will find it far more believable that I just get a bit over excited or overly down on matchdays than your position, which seems to be a belief that I intentionally and prolifically litter the forum with a variety of contradictory views at various different points in history, then bookmark them in case I need something to support an agenda like I'm Donald Trump gaslighting for redneck votes on twitter or a cockney spiv trying to sell horseracing tips. Idah the new Robbie Keane? That’s a brave prophecy indeed. Only problem is Robbie was banging them away for fun from the off and as a teenager too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said: Idah the new Robbie Keane? That’s a brave prophecy indeed. Only problem is Robbie was banging them away for fun from the off and as a teenager too. It was immediately after the Preston hat-trick 😆 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said: No vitriol here either, retail comment a bit harsh perhaps. Where are we actually going here? I just haven't been impressed by Placheta, I hope I will be in time, I was asking if anybody else had similar thoughts... nobody exactly came along and said he looked like he had the world at his feet and predicted greatness did they. A couple of people said it is too early, I conceded that and agreed that its early days. But my skeptism is bourne out of quite a few unsuccessful signings in the last 18 months, where few signings have come good. Just move on. The retail comment was incredibly harsh. And you seem to have gotten very worked up with some people disagreeing with you. Hence the link to past players you were using to reinforce your view of him, so I wouldn't agree that you have conceded and agreed that it is early days, otherwise why keep bringing up those players? So scepticism is now driving your view? Based on 'unsuccessful signings in the last 18months, where few signings have come good'. 18months takes us to last summer. - Fahrman - Amadou - Byram - Rupp - Sitti - McCallum - Duda - Roberts Then this seasons signings: - Dowell - Placheta - Sinani - Skipp - Gibson - Sorenson - Mumba - Hugill - Quintilla So far so good with all of this seasons signings. I would argue that whilst uninspiring some of last seasons weren't too bad. Unsuccessful and coming good are separate things for me. Ultimately although he didn't enjoy it, Fahrman did his job and helped keep Krul on his toes, ultimately he couldn't budge him from No.1 spot. Success for the team, just not for Fahrman and on paper, looks a bit of a waste, but having a top keeper battling you for your place has got to be a good thing. Amadou was a bit sad really, looked ok at times, but struggled to adapt to the prem. Given more time he may have done but like Fahrman wanted to be playing games and not kicking his heals. Roberts is a pretty similar case. He was brought in as the belief was that Buendia and Cantwell may need some help, but it turns out Cantwell as a bit better than the criticism he was getting and Roberts wasn't needed. Duda I liked in fits and starts. Again, I felt he struggled to get to grips with the English game but he did put in some good performances. He gets rubbished a fair amount but I wonder if, like Vrancic and Rupp, if he had had a 2nd season he may have started to look a bit more consistent. Certainly able to pass and had an eye for goal. Didn't work out ultimately, especially the project restart games but few players did well during that series of games really. Sitti/McCallum - for the future. Overall - meh, a bit uninspiring, not all down to those players though. It was more the collective failure to stay up that will taint them. That our squad wasn't good enough overall, especially in depth, especially at CB and IMHO CM. You can't go into any league without a solid spine and ultimately, that's what costs you. CM without Tettey was just to easy to cut open and the CB department was like a catwalk, one on, one off... This seasons signings have all looked decent so far. Obviously I disagree with you about Placheta but then perhaps that is because I am watching him with Farke influenced eyes. Yes he is raw, yes he isn't there yet, but he can cross, and boy can he run. I am pretty much a glass half full chap though, so it would take a fair amount for me not to give players time or a chance along with their coaches/manager before I give up on them. Above all else though, you have to try and judge players on their own merit and not the success or lack there of, of their predecessors. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,328 Posted October 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, chicken said: The retail comment was incredibly harsh. And you seem to have gotten very worked up with some people disagreeing with you. Hence the link to past players you were using to reinforce your view of him, so I wouldn't agree that you have conceded and agreed that it is early days, otherwise why keep bringing up those players? So scepticism is now driving your view? Based on 'unsuccessful signings in the last 18months, where few signings have come good'. 18months takes us to last summer. - Fahrman - Amadou - Byram - Rupp - Sitti - McCallum - Duda - Roberts Then this seasons signings: - Dowell - Placheta - Sinani - Skipp - Gibson - Sorenson - Mumba - Hugill - Quintilla So far so good with all of this seasons signings. I would argue that whilst uninspiring some of last seasons weren't too bad. Unsuccessful and coming good are separate things for me. Ultimately although he didn't enjoy it, Fahrman did his job and helped keep Krul on his toes, ultimately he couldn't budge him from No.1 spot. Success for the team, just not for Fahrman and on paper, looks a bit of a waste, but having a top keeper battling you for your place has got to be a good thing. Amadou was a bit sad really, looked ok at times, but struggled to adapt to the prem. Given more time he may have done but like Fahrman wanted to be playing games and not kicking his heals. Roberts is a pretty similar case. He was brought in as the belief was that Buendia and Cantwell may need some help, but it turns out Cantwell as a bit better than the criticism he was getting and Roberts wasn't needed. Duda I liked in fits and starts. Again, I felt he struggled to get to grips with the English game but he did put in some good performances. He gets rubbished a fair amount but I wonder if, like Vrancic and Rupp, if he had had a 2nd season he may have started to look a bit more consistent. Certainly able to pass and had an eye for goal. Didn't work out ultimately, especially the project restart games but few players did well during that series of games really. Sitti/McCallum - for the future. Overall - meh, a bit uninspiring, not all down to those players though. It was more the collective failure to stay up that will taint them. That our squad wasn't good enough overall, especially in depth, especially at CB and IMHO CM. You can't go into any league without a solid spine and ultimately, that's what costs you. CM without Tettey was just to easy to cut open and the CB department was like a catwalk, one on, one off... This seasons signings have all looked decent so far. Obviously I disagree with you about Placheta but then perhaps that is because I am watching him with Farke influenced eyes. Yes he is raw, yes he isn't there yet, but he can cross, and boy can he run. I am pretty much a glass half full chap though, so it would take a fair amount for me not to give players time or a chance along with their coaches/manager before I give up on them. Above all else though, you have to try and judge players on their own merit and not the success or lack there of, of their predecessors. I do accept that I've been to quick to rush to judgement on Placheta, that he is young, and that with a full compliment of players (e.g. Hernandez and Dowell being fit) he may be currently be finding himself thrust into situations where tactically he may not have been the obvious choice. And as the season progresses I hope we can find a way to make his rapid pace work for us. I do however still fear that we've just identified his existence through scouting software and sorted a dataset by a top 10 fastest sprints of the season in Europe list (which he did actually make). Still looks very raw to me. Then again, i'd have called Vrancic a League One player in his first months here and now he's our super sub. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarycat 27 Posted October 30, 2020 Player that needs time and a run of games, Vrancic, Stipermann & now even Rupp are examples of players who needed time to settle in to English football. Have to remember Placheta is completely new to English football and you can see that he needs coaching. Felt like v brentford he needed to be hugging the touchline and using his pace but he played like an inside forward and ran into traffic. Cantwell struggled in the championship at times first year and Hugill hasn't exactly got off to a flyer this year, with the budget we are working on we need to accept we are getting raw talent that needs work and we are very lucky to have a head coach who has a proven track record of getting the most out of his players. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kirku 1,358 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: I was showing Kirku that we can all have a route around in the archive and be selective about posts can't we, I was only doing to him what he was doing to me to illustrate that point. It should've been pretty clear that it was this part of your post that got me involved in the discussion: Quote I don't think I've really got one wrong since Vrancic three years ago, and my gut instinct on new players has proven pretty sound....I saw something in Rupp which suggested he'd be a good player in this league when many others wanted him adding to the bomb squad. That, along with your decision to "route" through the archives to quote another poster from a few months prior in an attempt to discredit. I found it all hugely hypocritical. I've no objection to people posting contradictory views or admitting that they said something in the heat of the moment, but that does take away their ability to crow about it at a later date. Edited October 30, 2020 by kirku Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 30, 2020 14 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said: And as the season progresses I hope we can find a way to make his rapid pace work for us. I do however still fear that we've just identified his existence through scouting software and sorted a dataset by a top 10 fastest sprints of the season in Europe list (which he did actually make). At which point you are effectively accusing the recruitment part of our club in being idiots. They will have sent a scout to watch him a few times. Webber may have even seen him himself. Of all the things we do know, under Webber, our club isn't just making knee jerk signings. They are genuinely looking a season ahead so they have all options counted for. Rupp was brought in sooner than as it was felt he would benefit from the end of the season rather than waiting until the summer. I think we are seeing the benefit now. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 3,043 Posted October 31, 2020 2 starts and 2 good performances from Placheta. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 10,530 Posted October 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, chicken said: 2 starts and 2 good performances from Placheta. Constant threat today - gave the front four extra space as they either had to go tight to Placheta and hope or drop off completely to stop him running in behind. Decision making not the best but no worse than Hernandez. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites