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Independence?

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Having lived in Scotland for the last 3 decades this article provides a good insight on the question, from the Daily Mash. 🤣

87 per cent of English people think Scotland is mythical

THE majority of English people think Scotland is a make-believe land of snow and monsters, it has emerged.

Researchers found that very few people have bothered travelling beyond Carlisle, believing that a few miles after junction 42 the M6 goes off a cliff into the sea.

Professor Henry Brubaker of the Institute for Studies said: “It turns out the reason Scotland is ignored by the English in everything from politics to football is because they don’t think it’s real.

“It exists in their minds as a fantastical world full of strange beasts, vicious savages and a cruel, endless winter, sort of like Game of Thrones but with Irn-Bru.

“In fact, most English people said they think Scotland is less likely to be real than Harry Potter, The Dark Crystal, Terry Pratchett books and every single Disney film ever made.

 

“If you point it out on a map they’ll say there must have been a printing error. They refuse to accept it exists, even if you offer them a Tunnock’s Tea Cake.”

Glasgow resident Tom Logan said: “Thank f*ck for that. We don’t want them all coming here when they realise England has gone **** up."

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To be honest Apples, I've wondered at times if posters on here are real. Do they really exist?😂

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If Scotland could sort out its weather I'd be up there in a shot. 

A relative is moving up next month to one of the coldest parts of Britain. A bit tougher than me. 

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22 hours ago, Herman said:

If Scotland could sort out its weather I'd be up there in a shot.

Coming from NE Norfolk, it only took me about 10 years to adapt (i.e. just accept it). And anyway, the weather is bound to improve once Scotland rejoins the EU.👍🤣

Apples

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Interesting polling. The current SNP spat is having a small effect.

 

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On 09/02/2021 at 13:52, horsefly said:

You can tell the idiot never qualified to get into university. The irony, of course, is that all this has happened under the rule of Westminster government, which for the most part has been dominated by the Tory party. That he is too stupid to see this comes as no suprise.

Wrong Again, Horse Muck. It was Tony Blair who created the devolved Scotland that we have today. He stupidly gave them spending powers but no power to raise income. So unsurprisingly, the Scots spent what they didn't have. Blair gave them power with no responsibility and we ended up with Scotland being the failed state that it is today. Get rid and quick.

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On 15/02/2021 at 21:40, Creative Midfielder said:

Absolutely - the logic of Brexit leads on directly to the breakup of the UK, whilst the consequences of Brexit strengthens support both for independence from Westminister and rejoining the EU - its no longer a question of 'if', the only question is 'when'

You see? The Scots don't even have the cojones to own what they are doing to the Union. SNP have been around far longer than Brexit and they are beginning to see the consequences of their actions yet still they want to hide behind Brexit. Are they feeling guilty or what?

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On 16/02/2021 at 07:12, Herman said:

Half the country doesn't want the Union to break up, but can understand why it might happen and the reasoning of why the Scots/Welsh would want to have full independence and a break from the Westminster lead government.

Half the country won't understand and will furiously abuse the Scots/Welsh for having the cheek to break away from England, even though they have just broken up a Union for similar, but far more spurious, reasons.

So what you are saying now is that it is England's fault that Scotland and Wales want independence. You are again demonstrating the the Scots won't own what they are trying to achieve. Their attempts to blame everyone except themselves is weak and pathetic, to be frank. Whatever happened to Scotland the Brave?

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On 16/02/2021 at 10:01, Nuff Said said:

I’m new to this thread, but a few quick thoughts.
 

We have friends who moved to Edinburgh 25 years ago, who voted no to independence but have now changed their minds, largely as a consequence of Brexit, but also more widely the continued South East-centric government bias. If the “English Scottish” now support it, that seems a fairly seismic change (granted a fairly small sample size).
 

Personally I will find it hard to forgive a nation that would condemn those of us left stranded in England to permanent Tory rule (about the only thing RTB gets right). Given how independence looks more and more likely, this is a pressing reason to push for proportional representation now, before the ridiculous first past the post system entrenches the current anti-democratic system.

What RTB fails to realise in his vision of a socialist-free English utopia, once the United Kingdom disappears, is that the vast majority of the remaining country’s revenue and influence will come from the most diverse area of the UK which is run by a Labour mayor. If Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland secede, and Cornwall and Yorkshire start agitating, how far behind will London be?

I can hear a barrel being scraped. Good luck with that.

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7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Wrong Again, Horse Muck. It was Tony Blair who created the devolved Scotland that we have today. He stupidly gave them spending powers but no power to raise income. So unsurprisingly, the Scots spent what they didn't have. Blair gave them power with no responsibility and we ended up with Scotland being the failed state that it is today. Get rid and quick.

Oh dear! The paedophile apologist makes up lies yet again. This is what you said:

"Scotland was a top league nation right up to the beginning of WW1 until it succumbed to the blight of the rise of socialsim. Within one hundred years Scotland went from being a world player as part of the Union to being what it has become today, a worn out, washed up, drug addicted nation with some of the most deprived regions in Europe, highest rates of poverty, highest rates of single parent families, highest rates of crime and highest rates of heroin addiction."

Even a thicko like you ought to be capable of counting up the number of years of Tory party rule during the years you cited as responsible for Scotland's putative decline. But of course, we all know that when it comes to spouting bigotry,  lies, and hatred you never take responsibility for what you say, nor bother yourself with little details like the facts.

 

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On 16/02/2021 at 12:44, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Independence in Scotland will not be delivered by Sturgeon, who failed to raise the subject at the last election, nor did she or anybody inher clique make any attempt to work out policies regards ministries of state, currency, she is not the person that would deliver, despite her talk of another referendum. Forces in westminster and Scotland are already plotting to undermine an Indy ref.2, whilst she has to explain to the public about her Governments interference/guidance that landed Alex Salmond in court, similar to the accusations against Carl Sargent in Wales, who committed suicide out of shame.

As yet nothing has happened to those who committed perjury in Alex S. case, but the story of collusion is out and very close to the election of list candidates, revealed today. Police Sxotland, who interviewed some 400 candidates and failed to find anyone who had any evidence against AlexS., will have to explain whether they, after the first 100/200interviews, they ever asked themselves if this was a wild goose chase and a waste of time, clearly another issue that must be investigated.

Then there are the courts, who are procrastinating and limiting the availability of evidence that could show the collusion between the courts, police and politicians, a right old mess.

 

 

You are quite right, Nevermind, that Sturgeon will never deliver independence. in fact, the SNP will never deliver independence because that would be like killing the golden goose.

At the moment the SNP can cry foul at Westminster for not allowing a second referendum, while at the same time receiving huge sums in transfer payments from England to Scotland. By keeping the current situation alive they get both the money plus the votes from those with a grievance. They have no responsibility to raise taxes, they can make outlandish spending plans and then blame England when they don't get funding and they remain perpetually in power.

If independence actually happened then the SNP would no longer have a reason to exist as the goal would have been achieved - as happened to UKIP.  In an independent Scotland they would then be responsible for setting budgets and raising income and would somehow have to bridge a £15billion shortfall in budget through either raising money on the international bond markets - a country without its own currency - or raise taxes on its people, which would immediately cause it to lose support. Or it would have to cut services. So why would a political party threaten its own existence when it can live off the teat of the English and carry on without any responsibility. Unfortunately, many Jocks are not that bright and believe the SNP hubris. Oh dear!

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The depth of animosity, fractures within the SNP and their orchestrated support for NS suggests that she and the party is under a lot of pressure, she's a pretty good politician but I suspect that the writing is on the wall for her. The Civil Service now being dragged in to the quagmire is not a good sign.

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Roll up for the Salmond show (partially redacted) and live evidence at 12.30.

Mr Potato Head ( or is it Ms ) will soon be enjoying centre stage

Edited by Van wink

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Roll up for the Salmond show (partially redacted) and live evidence at 12.30.

Mr Potato Head ( or is it Ms ) will soon be enjoying centre stage

All good stuff.😉🇬🇧

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How to sabotage the thing you've been working all your adult life for. Pair of arses. 

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Ms Sturgeon used her Covid briefing to say just because Mr Salmond had been cleared of criminality, “that doesn’t mean that the behaviour [women] complained of didn’t happen.”

These comments from the First Minister of Scotland totally undermines the system of justice. She needs to go

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

How to sabotage the thing you've been working all your adult life for. Pair of arses. 

Quite incredible and  actually I think that Alex Salmond is for Alex Salmond and Scottish independence comes a very distant second! Of course, there may well have been stuff going on in the background. Maybe it will come out. Yet, you might think that he was cleared in court and therefore you'd just be pleased about that, relieved and get on with life (and look forward to your big lifetime project coming to fruition). But no....he wants to not only stick the knife in but twist it many times! It's an interesting watch anyway. I reckon independence (as Neoliberal mentioned a few posts back) could be taking a bit of a bashing. Now you can see Johnson being really helpful to the cause but not in-fighting!

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The SNP members on the committee keep trying to bowl him out and Salmond keeps knocking the ball out of the ground. 

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9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The SNP members on the committee keep trying to bowl him out and Salmond keeps knocking the ball out of the ground. 

He's too clever for them, NS has a real fight on her hands with this, the redaction was a massive mistake it seems to me.

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4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

He's too clever for them, NS has a real fight on her hands with this, the redaction was a massive mistake it seems to me.

An impressive performance so far by Salmond. 

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59 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Case closed!

 

he posted that very early in the proceedings

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Breaking the Ministerial Code is a sackable offence. Well fancy that.😐

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