Vrancic

[Indy_Bones 441]

Vrancic's weaknesses are well known, he's not the most mobile or defensively helpful, which is why you have to play someone alongside him that has the work rate and defensive nous to counter-balance this.

On the flip side he gives us a range of passing, goal threat and free kick expertise that NOBODY else in our central midfield can, and with him pulling the strings, the likes of Cantwell and Buendia don't have to be dropping as deep to make something happen.

Both Skipp and Rupp have demonstrated they can be tidy and go about their business quietly, but together it just means we lack any creative spark, and our front players receive very little supply and end up spending half their time falling back to get it instead of being ready to receive a good ball in a more forward position.

[hogesar 9,657]

9 hours ago, Ian said:

Actually thought we controlled things less when Mario came on. Don't think Skipp offers any more than Tettey though.

Not taking the goal away from Mario because it was a lovely finish and I do think Vrancic has that X factor at this level, but no doubting he was a lazy git being the furthest man up the field as opposed to where he should have been. If that had been Cantwell or Snodgrass Lakey would have been ****ing furious about his lack of positional discipline.

That's the only issue. If we start with Vrancic then opposition teams will know they can bypass him in midfield and we might not exert the same level of control. If it makes a big difference to our creativity then the balance could be worthwhile but clearly Farke doesn't think so, at least not yet.

[king canary 7,603]

Are we maybe overstating the impact he had yesterday?

It was a very good finish but the way people are talking, you'd think he unlocked the Birmingham defence all by himself, rather than being set up by good work from Rupp, Buendia and Idah. With Skipp and Rupp in there we had enough chances to be 2 or 3 up before he gets onto the pitch.

I like Mario and want to see more of him in the team but it isn't like he came on and the tone of the game totally shifted.

[hogesar 9,657]

21 minutes ago, king canary said:

Are we maybe overstating the impact he had yesterday?

It was a very good finish but the way people are talking, you'd think he unlocked the Birmingham defence all by himself, rather than being set up by good work from Rupp, Buendia and Idah. With Skipp and Rupp in there we had enough chances to be 2 or 3 up before he gets onto the pitch.

I like Mario and want to see more of him in the team but it isn't like he came on and the tone of the game totally shifted.

Correct. It was a lovely finish but he didn't play any killer passes or do anything special. And Birmingham were able to suddenly bypass our midfield a couple of times too (not just down to Mario, ofc)

[Capt. Pants 4,226]

Happy to be corrected but was it Vrancic who gave the ball away right at the end to leave us 3 v 3?

IF Pukki has and injury now then it might provide the opportunity to push Emi further up and bring in Mario. Otherthan that I can't see Farke dropping Emi or Todd.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

Have seen this elsewhere;

Mario is the first player to score in all 4 seasons under Farke

Norwich have never lost (W11 D2) in the games that he has scored

His 4 goals from off the bench have been 3 winners and 1 (last minute) equaliser 

Sounds like he needs to be in the match day squad and on the bench

[Six Pack 92]

54 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Correct. It was a lovely finish but he didn't play any killer passes or do anything special. And Birmingham were able to suddenly bypass our midfield a couple of times too (not just down to Mario, ofc)

They only gave him 10 minutes so no time mucking around with passes - had to quickly get up there to finish it himself !

If this was the prem and we'll playing for draws - then probably Rupp & Skipp. But it's not - its the championship so we need goals.

If not the full 90 then perhaps coming on much earlier - straight after halftime to give ourselves as much time as possible chasing a goal or goals. Rupp has now positioned himself as the cornerstone of the team, so Skipp to give way !

 

 

 

 

[king canary 7,603]

1 minute ago, Six Pack said:

They only gave him 10 minutes so no time mucking around with passes - had to quickly get up there to finish it himself !

If this was the prem and we'll playing for draws - then probably Rupp & Skipp. But it's not - its the championship so we need goals.

If not the full 90 then perhaps coming on much earlier - straight after halftime to give ourselves as much time as possible chasing a goal or goals. Rupp has now positioned himself as the cornerstone of the team, so Skipp to give way !

 

 

 

 

But without him on the pitch we created enough to score 2 or 3 easily. It isn't Skipp or Rupp's fault Todd didn't have his shooting boots on.

I agree he should be coming on earlier but I think him starting over one of the central two could create more problems than it solves.

[hogesar 9,657]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

But without him on the pitch we created enough to score 2 or 3 easily. It isn't Skipp or Rupp's fault Todd didn't have his shooting boots on.

I agree he should be coming on earlier but I think him starting over one of the central two could create more problems than it solves.

I think Rupp is becoming a bit more creative himself too, certainly second half it felt like he was given more license. His energy, ball-winning high up the pitch and advancing towards their box led to chances and actually, our goal.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Correct. It was a lovely finish but he didn't play any killer passes or do anything special. And Birmingham were able to suddenly bypass our midfield a couple of times too (not just down to Mario, ofc)

I think scoring the winning goal could be classed as special!

Like away at Leeds and that free kick in the 4th minute, he can't score if he isn't on the pitch and ten minutes is not a great deal of time to have a huge influence, but he did by scoring and winning us the match. Just hope Farke thinks enough of him to give him more minutes this season. 

 

[king canary 7,603]

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think Rupp is becoming a bit more creative himself too, certainly second half it felt like he was given more license. His energy, ball-winning high up the pitch and advancing towards their box led to chances and actually, our goal.

Sky made the point yesterday that we were having Buendia and Cantwell play narrow and interchange yesterday and the space out wide was left for the fullbacks, so Skipp and Rupp didn't have lots of space to operate in further forward. Adding Vrancic to that mix both adds extra congestion to the middle of the park and leaves us more vulnerable to counter attacks. 

I would have bought him on a bit earlier last night (when it became clear Birmingham had fully given up on actually attacking) but from the start I don't think he helps that much.

[Gordon Bennett 783]

He starts at number 10 or on the bench for me, starting him deep next to one of our DMC’s in front of a generally quite porous back four is asking for trouble IMO. 

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

1 minute ago, Gordon Bennett said:

He starts at number 10 or on the bench for me, starting him deep next to one of our DMC’s in front of a generally quite porous back four is asking for trouble IMO. 

At this stage in the season, with confidence at a relative low I think you're right. We spent so long since the COVID break conceding goals and losing, Farke has prioritised keeping it tight at the back at the cost of creativity and goals. While it hurt us against Derby when they nailed us with a sucker punch, it's now resulted in our first back-to-back wins in god knows how long, and as confidence returns and the CB pairing get more comfortable together, we can maybe risk it a bit more. But with Rupp looking like he's becoming a creative force in itself, I think the current setup warrants further development and game time.

[Doomcaster 10]

Luv Marios - but an impact player for me, if we cannot find a breakthrough

Could be a 10 rather than Pukki for sure

Hope we can get more quality & decisive passing & movement within the final 3rd - that's all what is lacking against recently played pretty poor Championship teams so far

Goals win matches - never ever high passing or possession stats

[Gordon Bennett 783]

The idea is that high passing and possession stats will lead to lots of goals and points like two years ago. 

Early days, this team is developing and will continue to do so as the season progresses. Interesting to note that the only promotion season this century in which we had more points at this stage was the Play Off winning year under Adams/Neil. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,707]

Honestly would not mind seeing Vrančić playing behind Pukki/Hugill/Idah in the number 10 attacking midfield style role.

 

I know hes supposed to be a defensive midfielder and all, but to this day I still think hes better higher up.

 

Still one of our best freekick and setpiece players (although Quintilla is giving him a run for his money) and clearly is proving hes good at popping up and going for goal... And more importantly aiming the ball at the goal and not at the moon like many of our other players have been doing.

 

Really is disappointing how obvious it is that Farke just doesn't rate him, and how this has clearly annoyed Vrančić, just look at the lack of celebration when he scored looked far more annoyed than happy about it

 

Nevermind him going straight to Farke when the final whistle blew and having what looked like a less than happy chat with him

Edited October 21, 2020 by cambridgeshire canary

[Thirsty Lizard 3,159]

24 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Honestly would not mind seeing Vrančić playing behind Pukki/Hugill/Idah in the number 10 attacking midfield style role.

 

I know hes supposed to be a defensive midfielder and all, but to this day I still think hes better higher up.

 

Still one of our best freekick and setpiece players (although Quintilla is giving him a run for his money) and clearly is proving hes good at popping up and going for goal... And more importantly aiming the ball at the goal and not at the moon like many of our other players have been doing.

 

Really is disappointing how obvious it is that Farke just doesn't rate him, and how this has clearly annoyed Vrančić, just look at the lack of celebration when he scored looked far more annoyed than happy about it

 

Nevermind him going straight to Farke when the final whistle blew and having what looked like a less than happy chat with him

He isn't!

Nobody in the universe thinks that Mario is a defensive midfielder!!

[essex canary 495]

Man of the match even if he was on for only 10 minutes. Goalscorers win matches. 2 seasons ago his goals per minute ratio was only slightly behind Pukki. Super Mario! 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

4 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

He isn't!

Nobody in the universe thinks that Mario is a defensive midfielder!!

I think in this instance they mean a 'deep-lying playmaker' rather than a defensive midfielder; playing as the more creative of two deep midfielders.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,159]

14 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think in this instance they mean a 'deep-lying playmaker' rather than a defensive midfielder; playing as the more creative of two deep midfielders.

Yes, I think you're probably right. As I've said many times on here recently, I would much rather see Mario played further forward. That way you maximise his attacking strengths and minimise his defensive weaknesses. 

[TheGunnShow 5,938]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Yes, I think you're probably right. As I've said many times on here recently, I would much rather see Mario played further forward. That way you maximise his attacking strengths and minimise his defensive weaknesses. 

If you put Vrancic too far forward though, you do lose some of his long-range diagonals, and he's not really quick enough for the hole anyway. I think it would have to be a midfield three in the Championship rather than a two for best effect.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

34 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

If you put Vrancic too far forward though, you do lose some of his long-range diagonals, and he's not really quick enough for the hole anyway. I think it would have to be a midfield three in the Championship rather than a two for best effect.

Agree that Vrancic is much less effective further up the pitch, he needs the play in front of him to get his head up and find the right pass. However Wessi conclusively proved you don’t need pace to be an amazing no10, and Vrancic is not Wes.

[TheGunnShow 5,938]

2 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Agree that Vrancic is much less effective further up the pitch, he needs the play in front of him to get his head up and find the right pass. However Wessi conclusively proved you don’t need pace to be an amazing no10, and Vrancic is not Wes.

Wessi had a very good turn of pace though and could turn / manoeuvre very well, but not a heck of a lot of top speed. Acceleration is always a handy tool in the locker, and if you've not much top speed, the ability to get out of the blocks fast is needed.

Acceleration + speed of thought / ability to see the play = excellent number 10. Wessi had both. Vrancic has the latter.

Edited October 22, 2020 by TheGunnShow

[Number9 272]

Farke clearly said he sees Vrancic as an AM rather than a DM.

He also said we have lots of AM's all clamouring for game time. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

To me he should be the first name on the team sheet - the Ian Crook of our team.  Ian Crook had little pace, but was fantastic for us and Vrancic has similar qualities. Unfortunately, Farke does not want to build a team around one player as for him the team is everything but Vrancic does come up with the goods time and time again. He is a match winner and deserves more time on the pitch.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,938]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

To me he should be the first name on the team sheet - the Ian Crook of our team.  Ian Crook had little pace, but was fantastic for us and Vrancic has similar qualities. Unfortunately, Farke does not want to build a team around one player as for him the team is everything but Vrancic does come up with the goods time and time again. He is a match winner and deserves more time on the pitch.

 

I agree with the comparison between Vrancic and Crook (even down to the free-kicks), but I'd say the game is far more athletic nowadays.

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

I prefer him a bit deeper so he can get a bit of time and get his head up, quarterback-style. Also lets him pop up relatively unmarked in the box for chances.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

To me he should be the first name on the team sheet - the Ian Crook of our team.  Ian Crook had little pace, but was fantastic for us and Vrancic has similar qualities. Unfortunately, Farke does not want to build a team around one player as for him the team is everything but Vrancic does come up with the goods time and time again. He is a match winner and deserves more time on the pitch.

I agree with the comparison between Vrancic and Crook (even down to the free-kicks), but I'd say the game is far more athletic nowadays.

He may not be up there on stats, but I am always impressed with how Vrancic makes time and space for himself in the tightest of spots. His goal on Tuesday was a prime example of that. Three players around him, a split second later and he would have been closed down, yet his shot was comfortable, controlled and accurate. 

[hogesar 9,657]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

To me he should be the first name on the team sheet - the Ian Crook of our team.  Ian Crook had little pace, but was fantastic for us and Vrancic has similar qualities. Unfortunately, Farke does not want to build a team around one player as for him the team is everything but Vrancic does come up with the goods time and time again. He is a match winner and deserves more time on the pitch.

 

Really? Ahead of Todd....Emi.....Max?

[rock bus 851]

33 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Really? Ahead of Todd....Emi.....Max?

Or Krul or Gibson.

I like Vrancic but no way should he be the first one on the team sheet!