Need new CB & LB

[NeymarSmith 130]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

We have three first class central defenders and in our promotion season we only had three quality centre backs - and a young lad called Godfrey who hadn't yet proved himself at CB.

Quintilla, Tettey, Sorensen can all CB if needed and we have versatility in droves around the squad for people to play right back or left back too.

So although it would be good to have an extra CB and a left back, it is not desperate, which is what the op said, after all.  Any talk of "desperate" or "must have" is all a bit ott when we have the quality in the squad that we have.

And - this is not positive spin as @NeymarSmith suggests. It is all plain fact. If we have injuries we have enough to cope - these would not be "round pegs in square holes" - these would be good professional and versatile footballers doing the job asked of them.

 

 

Fair can't argue with you on those facts and great point on godfrey

Positive wasn't meant as a negative chap! Just I fear we are short

But yes as above says who would come in who's establish as no4 CB or possible no 2 lb. Hmm. But I guess that puts us in the camp of why are we not looking to recruit people who are as good as of not better than what we have and have competition for places. But that would that is unwise money wise and we know we aren't building the squad like that. 

What a rabbit hole this is

[lake district canary 4,530]

23 minutes ago, Number9 said:

36 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Ask me after tomorrow.

I'd be quite surprised to think that just one game could change your opinion one way or the other. 

Surely you give careful thought to these things and wouldn't be easily swayed from your reasoned opinion just by one games result?

If we win tomorrow, that will go some way to making us all feel a little better about our prospects.  What happened up until now is in the past - and there have only been four games. One or two wins put you right back up the table.

As for being easily swayed, I'm a football supporter and like most people I'm up when we win and a bit down when we lose. Tomorrow is an opportunity to win, put much needed points on the table and kick start the season a bit now all the nonsense of the transfer window is finished...and if we have to play Tettey and Quintilla at CB tomorrow or in the future and Rupp at left back, then so be it!  

[Number9 272]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

If we win tomorrow, that will go some way to making us all feel a little better about our prospects.  What happened up until now is in the past - and there have only been four games. One or two wins put you right back up the table.

As for being easily swayed, I'm a football supporter and like most people I'm up when we win and a bit down when we lose. Tomorrow is an opportunity to win, put much needed points on the table and kick start the season a bit now all the nonsense of the transfer window is finished...and if we have to play Tettey and Quintilla at CB tomorrow or in the future and Rupp at left back, then so be it!  

That's how it works, you don't get points for what you might do, you get points for what you have done. 

I'm looking at what Farke has done. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Quintilla, Tettey, Sorensen can all CB if needed and we have versatility in droves around the squad for people to play right back or left back too.

If Quintilla is forced to play at centre back, there's nobody in the squad to play left back!

I just cannot believe that we have loaned out two centre backs and a left back when our squad has two gaping holes in those positions. It's a disaster waiting to happen and I'm surprised that so many seem to think it's perfectly fine.

[Michael Wynless Jones 161]

Are we really at the point where beating Rotherham is the basis of celebration??  No offense to Rotherham, but they were League 1 last season, a year where teams were promoted by default, beating them is the bare sodding minimum!!!

[Uncle Fred 526]

We were short of CBs last season so how did they address it in the transfer window by leaving us short of CBs

the stupidity is incredible and Webber quite remarkably is still in a job

[Number9 272]

1 minute ago, Uncle Fred said:

We were short of CBs last season so how did they address it in the transfer window by leaving us short of CBs

the stupidity is incredible and Webber quite remarkably is still in a job

No crowds at the ground = no pressure on Farke. 

If they'd have been normal level of fans past few months, Farke would have been gone by now. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Webber out 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

We have three first class central defenders and in our promotion season we only had three quality centre backs - and a young lad called Godfrey who hadn't yet proved himself at CB.

Quintilla, Tettey, Sorensen can all CB if needed and we have versatility in droves around the squad for people to play right back or left back too.

So although it would be good to have an extra CB and a left back, it is not desperate, which is what the op said, after all.  Any talk of "desperate" or "must have" is all a bit ott when we have the quality in the squad that we have.

And - this is not positive spin as @NeymarSmith suggests. It is all plain fact. If we have injuries we have enough to cope - these would not be "round pegs in square holes" - these would be good professional and versatile footballers doing the job asked of them.

Okay, so these are the players who could play in the back four, as I see it:

RB: Aarons, Byram, Mumba, Rupp
LB: Quintilla, Stiepermann, Gibson, Byram
CB: Gibson, Hanley, Zimmermann, Tettey, Sorensen, Quintilla, Omobamidele

As we have such a wealth of midfielders, it's easier to accommodate midfielders in defence. However, the depreciation in quality, experience and natural ability drops off markedly when you get below first choice.

Aarons, Zimmermann, Gibson, Quintilla is a brilliant back four at this level; Hanley is a more than adequate replacement for Zimmermann/Gibson if they get injured. However, if either first-choice full-back gets injured, we're immediately going from Aarons (England U21, plenty of experience) and Quintilla (looks class, has La Liga experience) to very risky backups. Byram is great, but as he's out until January we're left with Mumba (a handful of professional games in midfield), Stiepermann (awkward at best as a left-back) and Rupp (versatile but certainly not a natural full-back).

As ever, the proof is in the pudding; Sorensen might prove to be a great defender, or our defenders might largely stay fit all season. But given that we've known well in advance how compressed the fixture schedule is, if we end up with square pegs in round holes and fail to catch up to the leading pack, there will be some very obvious opportunities for criticism that have nothing to do with hindsight.

 

[chicken 2,604]

I believe Byram has played at CB before, and I believe could do a decent job there in the future too. Possibly if his legs go as he gets a bit older.

 

[Number9 272]

4 minutes ago, chicken said:

I believe Byram has played at CB before, and I believe could do a decent job there in the future too. Possibly if his legs go as he gets a bit older.

 

Byram has a season ticket at the physio.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Number9

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

Webber has to go for gross incompetence!

I've been saying for 3 seasons now that Webber has fooled so many, with his emperor's new clothes act.  He criticised the previous regime for leaving the squad short in some areas and overstocked in others.  Then after 3 and a half years, he has us in exactly the same situation!  It's ludicrous!  

I'm not surprised to see the usual suspects on here defending him though and the inevitable reliance on square pegs in round holes.

Sadly we aren't going to get anywhere near automatic promotion this season.

[Number9 272]

2 minutes ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

Webber has to go for gross incompetence!

I've been saying for 3 seasons now that Webber has fooled so many, with his emperor's new clothes act.  He criticised the previous regime for leaving the squad short in some areas and overstocked in others.  Then after 3 and a half years, he has us in exactly the same situation!  It's ludicrous!  

I'm not surprised to see the usual suspects on here defending him though and the inevitable reliance on square pegs in round holes.

Sadly we aren't going to get anywhere near automatic promotion this season.

We don't know where we will finish at the end of the season but it does seem that our team is getting weaker, with issues not being addressed, rather than stronger. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

18 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Okay, so these are the players who could play in the back four, as I see it:

RB: Aarons, Byram, Mumba, Rupp
LB: Quintilla, Stiepermann, Gibson, Byram
CB: Gibson, Hanley, Zimmermann, Tettey, Sorensen, Quintilla, Omobamidele

As we have such a wealth of midfielders, it's easier to accommodate midfielders in defence. However, the depreciation in quality, experience and natural ability drops off markedly when you get below first choice.

Aarons, Zimmermann, Gibson, Quintilla is a brilliant back four at this level; Hanley is a more than adequate replacement for Zimmermann/Gibson if they get injured. However, if either first-choice full-back gets injured, we're immediately going from Aarons (England U21, plenty of experience) and Quintilla (looks class, has La Liga experience) to very risky backups. Byram is great, but as he's out until January we're left with Mumba (a handful of professional games in midfield), Stiepermann (awkward at best as a left-back) and Rupp (versatile but certainly not a natural full-back).

As ever, the proof is in the pudding; Sorensen might prove to be a great defender, or our defenders might largely stay fit all season. But given that we've known well in advance how compressed the fixture schedule is, if we end up with square pegs in round holes and fail to catch up to the leading pack, there will be some very obvious opportunities for criticism that have nothing to do with hindsight.

 

I could play at centre back or left back ... I wouldn't be any good though

[lake district canary 4,530]

1 hour ago, Number9 said:

That's how it works, you don't get points for what you might do, you get points for what you have done. 

I'm looking at what Farke has done. 

Each to their own. I always try to look forwards, or at least not look backwards....

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

4 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I could play at centre back or left back ... I wouldn't be any good though

Don't be so hard on yourself, Kenny.

The professional footballers we've scouted extensively and then signed might be better fits for those roles, though... just sayin'.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

19 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Don't be so hard on yourself, Kenny.

The professional footballers we've scouted extensively and then signed might be better fits for those roles, though... just sayin'.

A large number of those professional footballers might be better if they weren't midfielders being shoehorned into defence, however.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

6 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

A large number of those professional footballers might be better if they weren't midfielders being shoehorned into defence, however.

Like Ben Godfrey was, you mean? Denmark see Sorensen as a CB, maybe we are plotting a similar path for him? Omobamidele might have the requisite skill and mentality to step up, and he's a pure CB. If anything, it's the lack of full-back cover that concerns me most.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

Like Ben Godfrey was, you mean? Denmark see Sorensen as a CB, maybe we are plotting a similar path for him? Omobamidele might have the requisite skill and mentality to step up, and he's a pure CB. If anything, it's the lack of full-back cover that concerns me most.

Ben Godfrey was always viewed as a defender long-term from the moment we signed him, even under Neil, if I'm not mistaken. He was never shoehorned into a position as a result of necessity or emergency. I don't think I've seen anything from the club that hints that Sorensen is being lined up to be a centre back, as he has always been referred to as a midfielder, who 'can also play in defence'.

The players I was referring to were more like Tettey and Stiepermann- actual midfielders that are being touted as defensive options.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Ben Godfrey was always viewed as a defender long-term from the moment we signed him, even under Neil, if I'm not mistaken. He was never shoehorned into a position as a result of necessity or emergency. I don't think I've seen anything from the club that hints that Sorensen is being lined up to be a centre back, as he has always been referred to as a midfielder, who 'can also play in defence'.

The players I was referring to were more like Tettey and Stiepermann- actual midfielders that are being touted as defensive options.

Yeah, fair points there. Can't argue with any of that.

[Number9 272]

55 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Each to their own. I always try to look forwards, or at least not look backwards....

You're in grave danger of repeating your same mistakes. 

Think before you post, of course we take references from the past to plot a successful path moving forward. 

[lake district canary 4,530]

2 hours ago, Number9 said:

You're in grave danger of repeating your same mistakes. 

Think before you post, of course we take references from the past to plot a successful path moving forward. 

You learn from the past but you don't wallow in it, which is what some people seem to delight in doing. Looking ahead to the next challenge is always the thing. Alex Ferguson used to say the same thing - no sooner had he won or lost a match, won a cup or a league.....celebrations or dwelling on the defeat was minimal - it was in the past and he was looking to the next challenge coming up.

You can't change the past, but you can change the future.

 

 

[Fuzzar 1,702]

9 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Ben Godfrey was always viewed as a defender long-term from the moment we signed him, even under Neil, if I'm not mistaken. He was never shoehorned into a position as a result of necessity or emergency. I don't think I've seen anything from the club that hints that Sorensen is being lined up to be a centre back, as he has always been referred to as a midfielder, who 'can also play in defence'.

The players I was referring to were more like Tettey and Stiepermann- actual midfielders that are being touted as defensive options.

I believe there's an interview with Sorenson when he joined saying he'd discussed with the manager whether we saw him as an 8 or 6, and he'd been encouraged that Farke agreed with him that his best position was as a deep lying midfielder. 

I don't think he signed on the basis he'd be cover and playing at CB, which is looking much more likely after this window. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,775]

2 hours ago, Fuzzar said:

I believe there's an interview with Sorenson when he joined saying he'd discussed with the manager whether we saw him as an 8 or 6, and he'd been encouraged that Farke agreed with him that his best position was as a deep lying midfielder. 

I don't think he signed on the basis he'd be cover and playing at CB, which is looking much more likely after this window. 

Correct, and I just searched the Michael Bailey article from The Athletic a few weeks ago and it contains this section:

 

At Norwich, and as proven during most of pre-season, Farke’s 4-2-3-1 formation will see Sorensen considered in either of the No 6 positions behind his forward four. Those two are generally asked to perform different roles, with a deeper anchor alongside a more box-to-box, progressive midfielder to help Norwich break the lines when in possession.

 

Sorensen may be honed into that deeper role longer term, but it seems highly likely he’ll actually play alongside either of the club’s natural defensive midfielders, Alex Tettey and Tottenham loanee Oliver Skipp, while we are still early in the season.

 

“Of course I think the boss can teach me things,” Sorensen tells The Athletic. “It’s more like, how the team plays and what the role is of the No 6 in this team. It is something to come with experience. When you play more games, you have a feeling for whether I should stay here or should I go and pressure there? Should I stay?

 

“I need to learn, and I’ve already learned a lot about how to play the No 6 in this Norwich team. Alex has been really good at helping. He told me the boss likes him to stay central and not going too wide — and the nice thing about Alex is he is speaking Norwegian and I speak Danish, and we can understand each other. I don’t have to speak English all the time!”

 

Hopefully this proves once and for all that Sorensen is a midfielder and if he ends up at centre-back then it's only because of desperation and an accident rather than design.