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£25m for Cantwell

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8 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Good question and comparison. Grealish is certainly looking the real deal now and was very good last season. If Villa were offered £80m I doubt very much they’d be interested in selling. 

But any club other than those owned by royal families or whatever, when offered that sort of money may think "will this offer ever come again?". Stars fade, players go beyond 'prospect' stage and stop developing, or go backwards, or they could do their cruciates and become a Matt Jarvis for the rest of their careers.

In the summer the mooted fee for Grealish was actually £80m, that was allegedly what Man Utd would have had to find to take him. So with that in mind, I'd value Maddison at perhaps £65m, because I simply think that Grealish has that little bit extra. 

Now, he could just appear to have that little bit extra because he's doing it for his childhood team, and perhaps would lose a bit of motivation elsewhere, but in terms of form over the past year Grealish just looks to impose himself on games a little more consistently. Both extremely talented and both match winners on their day, but Grealish more of a talisman for his team which is reflected in the captains armband that he wears, that could well just be because Maddison is in the shadow of Vardy?

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

But any club other than those owned by royal families or whatever, when offered that sort of money may think "will this offer ever come again?". Stars fade, players go beyond 'prospect' stage and stop developing, or go backwards, or they could do their cruciates and become a Matt Jarvis for the rest of their careers.

In the summer the mooted fee for Grealish was actually £80m, that was allegedly what Man Utd would have had to find to take him. So with that in mind, I'd value Maddison at perhaps £65m, because I simply think that Grealish has that little bit extra. 

Now, he could just appear to have that little bit extra because he's doing it for his childhood team, and perhaps would lose a bit of motivation elsewhere, but in terms of form over the past year Grealish looks to be a bit better. 

 

Quite possible either or both will move on in the next 12/18 months. Both tied down on lengthy contracts and on very decent money now. Reports have Maddison on over £100k a week, second only to Vardy in a well paid Leicester squad. 

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Maddison a much better player than Grealish. IMO, Todd just not in their class (yet). I can’t see who’s starting lineup Todd would fit into  in the PL tbh. 

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14 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

Pleased it shows we are far from desperate to sell. In fact, it’s a clear message that it’s very much the opposite. All this business will be good for Todd in time, a learning curve in his career and will certainly help shape him as both a man and player. A great opportunity for this experience to become a positive for him in the long run I feel, and I think he’ll bounce back in style.

He did well in the Premier League last season, and many a player has joined the PL for far more than £25mil and turned out sh1te. So he’s worth that for me. Nice try by Leeds to unsettle him and get him on the cheap. I wouldn’t expect anything less from them to be honest. But this time it looks like they messed with the wrong club.

The only 2 players last season that did well were Krul and Aarons

 

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Reports coming in this morning of Waveney spotted driving north on the A1 with a blonde in the passenger seat. 😂

Edited by TIL 1010

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38 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That's a Canary related bias. 

 

I wouldn't say much better, but if I had to pick one to have in my team it'd be Maddison.

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If Webber get any where near £25m for Cantwell - he is a 'God of Transfers'

Just don't want to lose Buendia for £25m 

Farke needs to fully support Buendia with much more game time, & allow NCFC to get wins on the boards

We basically don't win if Buendia does not play 

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39 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:
8 hours ago, Surfer said:

Maddison a much better player than Grealish. IMO

That's a Canary related bias. 

I don't see why that is so. I agree with Surfer and it's not biased. Maddison is a far more consistent player than Grealish, who sometimes looks quite ordinary.

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10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Why didn't Palace move for Cantwell then? 

Probably because Eze is stronger, doesn't blow over in a light gale, more of a team worker and isn't distracted by social media? 

I don't know, maybe he was on their list of targets. Is being stronger and not falling over is actually a selling point in modern top flight football? Cantwell is a talented lad who got promoted to the premier league, scored and assisted in a struggling team and was good first half of the season, capped at U21 level. Yes his ego may have run away but I think agents are most likely the source of any disruption, blowing smoke up his 4r$3. 

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I don't think that Cantwell is worth £25m or that he will ever be, to be honest (and more than slightly controversial.)

Good player, good prospect and I hope we retain him for this season, as he should be a handfull for many a Championship defence, but I just cannot see him ever reaching the heights of a top six starter or of being an England international.

Flimsy individuals like him need to almost possess the skills of a Georgie Best to reach the very top in the game. He's not quite there as I see it and is rather hit and miss in his successes, his moves, his passes, his runs his flicks and his goalscoring, rather than being a consistent menace to opposition defences.

At nearly 23 he seems a bit immature for his age, and this is reflected in his performances not only on social media but also on the field of play.

In other words he needs to be a lot more accomplished as a player to be worth that sort of money. Perhaps he will be one day. I don't, at this moment in time, see it happening.

I have previously excused him for his off-field personae and feel that, on occasions, he has been unfairly vilified over trivial  matters but this doesn't mean I think that he will ever aspire to the heights that Madisson is destined to reach.

(Tin hat on.)

 

 

I would be aggrieved if NCFC were to pay that amount for young Todd.

Edited by BroadstairsR
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What utter tosh, I dislike Grealish as a player, he’s an utter cheat in his approach to getting fouls, but that aside the guy is quality, he’s pulled Villa into the Premiership, kept them there and now is kicking on. 
My cousin is a Villa supporter and raves about him, he actually does extra training to improve himself.

As good as Madders is he’s just not as good all round as Grealish imo.

As for Cantwell, not sure why he’s gone off on this stupid social media campaign, made him look a little bit of a bell at times and certainly had a negative impact on his likely suitors fans in Leeds.

If he would get his focus back on his career and working hard at improving himself he’s certainly got the talent not sure he’s got the character.

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This from https://www.skysports.com/transfer-centre:

NORWICH EXPECT CANTWELL STAY

Norwich City expect Todd Cantwell to stay at Carrow Road ahead of tomorrow’s domestic transfer deadline.

Cantwell has been linked with a number of clubs over the summer notably Leeds United.

However, Sky Sports News has been told Norwich have not received any official offers from potential suitors over the summer.

The 22-year old midfielder still has two years remaining in his present contract . 

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2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That's a Canary related bias. 

 

Correct.

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All a bit quiet on the transfer front, which is good news re: Buendia & Cantwell staying. I can't see NCFC allowing both to go tomorrow even if good money moves came in.

Would have Harry Wilson here if either does go though 

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1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

I don't think that Cantwell is worth £25m or that he will ever be, to be honest (and more than slightly controversial.)

Good player, good prospect and I hope we retain him for this season, as he should be a handfull for many a Championship defence, but I just cannot see him ever reaching the heights of a top six starter or of being an England international.

Flimsy individuals like him need to almost possess the skills of a Georgie Best to reach the very top in the game. He's not quite there as I see it and is rather hit and miss in his successes, his moves, his passes, his runs his flicks and his goalscoring, rather than being a consistent menace to opposition defences.

At nearly 23 he seems a bit immature for his age, and this is reflected in his performances not only on social media but also on the field of play.

In other words he needs to be a lot more accomplished as a player to be worth that sort of money. Perhaps he will be one day. I don't, at this moment in time, see it happening.

I have previously excused him for his off-field personae and feel that, on occasions, he has been unfairly vilified over trivial  matters but this doesn't mean I think that he will ever aspire to the heights that Madisson is destined to reach.

(Tin hat on.)

 

 

I would be aggrieved if NCFC were to pay that amount for young Todd.

Are you saying that from our current position or if we were a Premier League team, looking to buy a young (English) starlet who showed he can cut it in the Prem, from a recently relegated team?

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15 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Are you saying that from our current position or if we were a Premier League team, looking to buy a young (English) starlet who showed he can cut it in the Prem, from a recently relegated team?

Either.

Did he really "cut it" in the PL on a consistent basis?

I'm on his side and rate him, as you seem to. I just do not feel that he is, or will ever be, the full £25m package.

I hope I am wrong. 

 

 

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I suspect Leeds dont want to fork out the kind of money Norwich want for either Buendia or Cantwell, due to buying a number of high cost players already this year. I imagine they will be Norwich players still by the weekend.

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34 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

All a bit quiet on the transfer front, which is good news re: Buendia & Cantwell staying. I can't see NCFC allowing both to go tomorrow even if good money moves came in.

Would have Harry Wilson here if either does go though 

Hes gone to Swansea

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NCFC want £25m apparently, Leeds yet to make offer at all, how often do clubs take the price offered without testing the water with a tentative bid.  Feel an offer of £15m + extras would have secured Cantwell.  Farke, Webber and co would be grateful to be without this petulant child and build a team spirit minus this distraction.

Needs to rebuild trust and definetely not be included Saturday.  Todd not as good as he thinks he is.  Don't expect move to Leeds they are just stirring. 

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It seems that Leeds went with another player who had a lower valuation of £20m, although that deal (Cuisance) fell through. Hence the renewed speculation about Cantwell.

Cuisance is reported to have failed a medical at Leeds, however other reports suggest that the deal fell apart over the structure of the payments after the clubs had initially agreed a fee. If true this would be a major red flag for us as a selling club.

Cantwell had 6 Premiership goals from midfield in a side that didn't score many last season plus he's home grown and young enough to continue his development. £25m seems a fair valuation.

Maybe Leeds don't think so but maybe the issue is simpler. They don't have the money (at least not without the selling club offering a generous credit line and payment terms).

Leeds have yet to publish their 2020 year end accounts but their year end 2019 accounts show a negative net worth of £7m and a loss of £21m for the year - but more interestingly they also show £53 m in debt due for repayment within a year plus another £28 m in debt repayable after one year. This was before they started buying players this year. 

Leeds not so open secret is that they like to buy players on the tick.

So what? Many clubs do. Leeds however have a negative net worth before last year's losses and this years spending spree and they are already stuffed to the gills with debt. What this means is that the value of their club is less than the value of their liabilities. This can happen in business if the directors are happy to continue to support the Ltd Company which the Leeds directors clearly are.

However the point that is relevant here relates to who is taking the risk and largely in these situations it is the unsecured creditors (those clubs who sell to Leeds on tick). Unsecured creditors might never get paid at all. Regardless of whether we sell Cantwell to them for £5m or £50m  it is neither here nor there if we don't ever get paid. 

If Leeds go pop, HM customs and revenue takes the first cut, the secured creditors get the next slice and whatever is left is divided up between the remaining creditors (the clubs who have sold players to Leeds on tick). The Leeds Directors walk away as their liability is limited to what they have put into the business already but no more. 

Selling to Leeds has a significant element of risk attached to it for our club. The structure of any deal is as important as the price. 

They say cash is king. It really is. 

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50 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Either.

Did he really "cut it" in the PL on a consistent basis?

I'm on his side and rate him, as you seem to. I just do not feel that he is, or will ever be, the full £25m package.

I hope I am wrong. 

 

 

I think there is a big difference between a Championship club paying £25M and a Premier League Club tbh. 

If the stories are true about his attitude, then I would not be happy to pay that for him, but that's not to say other Clubs would pay that, thinking they would change any poor attitude that may exist here.

Yes, he cut it, but to expect a 21/22 year old to sweep all before him in his first Prem season on a fully consistent basis (after 1 good season in the Championship) is unrealistic, but with the right coach/team/system and maturity (both personal and playing) then absolutely I think he is worth £25M in today's market. I actually think Leeds are the right fit for Todd, but the attitude stories may have some truth in them 

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I hope we can get a deal sorted, something like 18 million with add ons to take it to 25 and a sell on. 

 

Todd had some great games for Norwich at the start of last season, his goal tally reflecting that. And lets be honest, we were all quite surprised. He made a real cameo role for himself the season before and was behind the pecking order of Hernandez, Steiperman, Buendia and Vrancic for that attacking midfield role. To be honest I think the majority of us expected him to go back out on loan as you'd be lying if you thought he was going to storm into the starting 11 at a higher level. But fair play he did. 

 

However, and this is my tin hat moment, I watch him and I see a player who's decision making when on the ball can be frustratingly poor; slow to release, often tries to go past one player too many when the option was to shoot early or play someone else in. I also thought in games last season he was positionally poor when we were being countered. He's a player who benefits from when we are already playing well in a game, but isn't the player to be the difference between two sides which is what I think Buendia constantly is at this level. What I mean by that is, we can be playing poorly but he a constant threat throughout the game. 

 

The social media stuff.. ah man, I get its part of the culture, being young, being wealthy, being cool with cool friends who make music and the like. It just surprises me that players don't get more coaching on being social media savvy, about what can be misinterpreted and can upset the fans. Do they get told, for example, what to avoid doing on match days when they are not involved? It just worries me that there is a degree of innocence to all of it, but because of them not understanding the perception blended with a lack of maturity they overshare and open themselves up to flack.

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7 minutes ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I think there is a big difference between a Championship club paying £25M and a Premier League Club tbh. 

If the stories are true about his attitude, then I would not be happy to pay that for him, but that's not to say other Clubs would pay that, thinking they would change any poor attitude that may exist here.

Yes, he cut it, but to expect a 21/22 year old to sweep all before him in his first Prem season on a fully consistent basis (after 1 good season in the Championship) is unrealistic, but with the right coach/team/system and maturity (both personal and playing) then absolutely I think he is worth £25M in today's market. I actually think Leeds are the right fit for Todd, but the attitude stories may have some truth in them 

I actually think that there is a danger of NCFC supporters going OTT with regards the ability and potential and value of TC.

However, if he jumps an equivalent of that great leap forward that he made from a Chumps player (of mixed reception) to a headline grabbing (briefly) PL performer in the coming weeks (ie. over the brief Summer break,) then I will be proven to be wrong, but delighted nevertheless.

It does seem that he will remain at Carrow Road. So let him knuckle down and get to prove his fans/support to be in the right.

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5 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I actually think that there is a danger of NCFC supporters going OTT with regards the ability and potential and value of TC.

However, if he jumps an equivalent of that great leap forward that he made from a Chumps player (of mixed reception) to a headline grabbing (briefly) PL performer in the coming weeks (ie. over the brief Summer break,) then I will be proven to be wrong, but delighted nevertheless.

It does seem that he will remain at Carrow Road. So let him knuckle down and get to prove his fans/support to be in the right.

We are not far apart in our opinions of TC Broadstairs, but I would counter this with what the comparable market is atm. Benrahma at Brentford being a case in point.

 

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3 hours ago, Thumbbass said:

I don't know, maybe he was on their list of targets. Is being stronger and not falling over is actually a selling point in modern top flight football? Cantwell is a talented lad who got promoted to the premier league, scored and assisted in a struggling team and was good first half of the season, capped at U21 level. Yes his ego may have run away but I think agents are most likely the source of any disruption, blowing smoke up his 4r$3. 

The point I was making is that Palace are a very physical side, and that isn't an accident, so its pretty obvious why they'd perhaps see Eze as being a more Palace-like player than Cantwell. 

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1 hour ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

Are you saying that from our current position or if we were a Premier League team, looking to buy a young (English) starlet who showed he can cut it in the Prem, from a recently relegated team?

I don't understanding why "Comes from a recently relegated team" would be on any list of criteria when clubs are shopping for new players. 

Not sure why "English" would either, "homegrown" might for some sides who struggle to meet the quota but that can be any nationality these days, and there aren't actually many clubs with a shortage of homegrown players - Burnley, Palace, Villa teaming with homegrown players.

Just because we left ourselves in a pickle by buying too may overseas players doesn't mean that other sides are so poor at squad planning. 

So if we narrow it down to "youngish" and "inside forward" then there's a whole world out there to be explored, and Cantwell is hardly a world level player is he. 

Karlan Grant just went for £14m. That's who I would have wanted us to sign up front if we'd stayed up. 

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23 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I don't understanding why "Comes from a recently relegated team" would be on any list of criteria when clubs are shopping for new players. 

Not sure why "English" would either, "homegrown" might for some sides who struggle to meet the quota but that can be any nationality these days, and there aren't actually many clubs with a shortage of homegrown players - Burnley, Palace, Villa teaming with homegrown players.

Just because we left ourselves in a pickle by buying too may overseas players doesn't mean that other sides are so poor at squad planning. 

So if we narrow it down to "youngish" and "inside forward" then there's a whole world out there to be explored, and Cantwell is hardly a world level player is he. 

Karlan Grant just went for £14m. That's who I would have wanted us to sign up front if we'd stayed up. 

It was comparing Broadstair's point of being a Prem team buying a £25M player or a Championship team  (that it's '£25M' player has just performed in the Prem) buying one. It wasn't a criteria

The English (should have said homegrown) is a plus, and teams will always look at those players, because it makes sense for many (but not exclusive) reasons. All teams would look at potential upgrades

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