May as well sell the lot.

[hogesar 9,658]

25 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

There is a difference between knocking on Webber's door and telling him you want to leave and coming in from training ( take note he was on the video yesterday ) and being informed that a bid has been accepted and would he like to go and discuss terms.

 

It literally makes ZERO difference Til, once the bid has come in - do you really think Godfrey wants to stay? Is it the clubs fault that people bid for our players? Its testament to how well Farke and Webber have done, if anything.

[Herman 9,756]

1 hour ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I am absolutely fine with this. We have nurtured, for the first time in our history, 5 talents (at once) and that is a massive positive and they will generate more money than we have ever seen. That is our model, whether you like it or not. What we do with that money, remains to be seen, and the next fortnight will determine a lot. I certainly do not want to be a hypocrite and want my Club to be wildly unsustainable due to a misguided, single minded, thought process that says you HAVE to be at the football Top Table, to be considered successful and yet are tens of millions of pounds in debt. That's not proper sporting success, it's a fallacy. We, as fans, just see the top (public) level of running a football club, so we are bound to have a one eyed view sometimes. It's not as easy as saying that Webber, et al, have renounced their duties. It's way deeper than that.

If we go and buy players that, or the remaining squad, get us up this year , then great. We all like to win, and we all want to be the best we can be, but we are where we are, with us trying to claw back previous years administerial/manager decisions. No Club is perfect.

You can't reasonably expect us to have kept any of those 5, so if 1 or 2 stay then that's a bonus. If all 5 go, then , meh, it is what it is. There will still be 11 people in a green and yellow shirt the next time we turn up at Carrow Road. 

OTBC💚💛

 

 

👏👏👏

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

9 hours ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

To be fair, you've picked quite an outdated report there Wolfie.

Ben Kensell stated in August that the shortfall was 12m (still eye watering admittedly). When you factor in that we were on for a 16 million profit for the season until covid dropped, then we should still have been coming out of last season with a few million to spare.

Obviously, going this whole season with no match day income will hurt like hell but the monies we've now made from the two sales should see us through the season and cover our transfers. No one else should need to leave really. 

OTBC

Thanks, I hadn't seen that report. Bearing those figures into account, you're quite right that these two sales should theoretically cover us for now.

However, add to that £12m the cost of having no fans attend at all this season (which is a real possibility), and you must be looking at the same figure again at the very least when you factor in both ticket sales and matchday revenue/food/merchandising. Plus there's also the money we've spent on players (using transfermarkt as a source) - at least £2.5m each on Hugill and Placheta, another £2m on Dowell, an unknown fee for Sorensen, plus loan fees for Skipp, Quintilla and Gibson (plus another £4m in January on McCallum and Rupp).

Then factor in the wages we're paying those new players, plus the fact we currently still have Trybull, Leitner and Drmic on the payroll, and it all adds up. If we sell Todd but keep Max and Emi, I'd be happy to go with what we have; Todd leaving will allow Martin more game time, and I'm absolutely convinced from what I've seen that he could go on to make a real impact at this level.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 - it is a process, not a firesale 

I agree, its not a firesale in the sense that we are forced to sell through over extending in the Premier League. My point is that the model we were sold appears to end up at exactly the same position.

If four or five are now sold it becomes a firesale without a fire.

Not really. The accumulated wealth that comes with selling players puts us in prime condition over several years to develop the squad and the infrastructure of the club. And yes, although we are relegated and back where we started in the league - we are hugely better off in terms of players and finances. 11 brought in - and not just any 11.....11 super prospects, some of whom will be fast tracked to the first team as Lewis/Aarons/Todd and Godfrey were. Keep true to the project, gradually increase the spend within the resources available and watch as the club develops upwards.  It's not guaranteed of course, nothing is in football, but it really seems to me to be something to celebrate, not be down about.

I think Godfrey going is a bit if a shock to all of us, he was well liked by nearly everyone, but it is what it is and we do have potentially a better replacement for him in Gibson. Aarons and Emi may well go too, but disappointing as that will be too, in the long run, it helps us as a club to develop further in getting in quality young replacements - and the occasional experienced one too.

[......and Smith must score. 1,342]

13 hours ago, ricardo said:

My understanding was that we would go back stronger. No way that is going to happen now. I think we've just thrown in the towel.

 

Are you suffering from a bad dose of lockdown-itis Ricardo ?

You've been following this outfit for long enough to know that we buy cheap sell expensive ( usually ). It was obvious that when we went down some of our bright young things would be on the move as players used to move upward sometimes when we got promoted. Think Dave Watson and Steve Bruce for example.

You've said before that in football nothing stands still.

[Making Plans 936]

1 hour ago, Jerrykerry said:

How is it the clubs fault they don't want to be here?

I think it's probably got something to do with (a) the Club are not proactive enough to match their aspirations and (b) at least 2 of them have lost faith in the ability of the Manager to to pull another miracle out of the hat.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

11 hours ago, hogesar said:

I'm really surprised that there's people not getting this.

You've explained it pretty well, so fingers crossed.

I am getting it but my point is that we don;t need to sell more  than a couple of players to cover it (and probably no more than 1 at the moment) so it cannot and should not be used as justification should we sell 3, 4 or even all 5 of our young talents in this widow.The club said they lost around£10m last season. If no  fans this season means we lose all ticketing, catering  and commercial income  then that  would equate to around £22m more but we won;t lose all our commercial income and presumably have also cut costs as well.

So the Lewis sale probably put us more or less back where we would have beenthis summer without covid. Godfrey more  than covers any hole. More sales are not justified on the basis of covid unless you take the view we need to hoard the cash now in case the transfer market completely collapses in the future.

Fundamentally  though the way to keep these players longer (or get more for them) remains to stay in the prem. The fact we didn't show any ambition to do so (and were placated by saying we would not need to sell them all if we came down and woild come back stronger) is what grates the most.

[ron obvious 1,502]

3 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

I think it's probably got something to do with (a) the Club are not proactive enough to match their aspirations and (b) at least 2 of them have lost faith in the ability of the Manager to to pull another miracle out of the hat.

& c) they might quite like to double/treble their wages??

[Making Plans 936]

Just now, ron obvious said:

& c) they might quite like to double/treble their wages??

I think that is covered in (a)

[Jim Smith 2,317]

10 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I've said it on here before and I'll say it again - Josh Martin is a far better player at the age of 18 than Todd Cantwell was. That does not mean that he will be a better player at the age of 22, but we can hope. 

Whilst I think martin shows some promise, he has done nothing yet to justify the elevated status he is given by some on here. He was released by Arsenal and did f**k all against Luton in the league cup where i thoight he looked a bit lightweight. I think he could turn out to be great but I don't think you can put him in the same bracket as any of the current "5" yet. He has some way to develop before he's ready for regular first team football. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

51 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It has indeed but its amazing how many on here think these sales are now going to finance a spending spree.

I don't  think anyone expected to keep all the top players but neither did they expect to lose the lot, which now seems to be very likely. We cannot expect Farke to constantly put together promotion challenging teams after gutting them season after season.

But who are these ‘amazing how many on here’ think we’re now going to go on a spending spree, Ricky? I’ve been reading the forum extensively the last couple of days and I can’t think of even a SINGLE poster who thinks we’re now about to go and blow a decent chunk of the £50million. It’s just not true. There has been some inference that there may need to be a replacement or 2 if we do lose the likes of Emi and Todd as well, but I think this mythical spending spree - well, no City supporter is stupid enough to think that Webber’s about to go bonkers with the chequebook, and no poster has suggested this either. These large numbers you talk of simply do not exist.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

11 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

In troubled times such as these, I'd say it's more important than ever to try to find little green shoots of hope to cling on to. What do you reckon to Adam Idah and Josh Martin from what you've seen so far?

I like the cut of both of them. Mumba's looked very promising too. (Could they please, please, please give him the number 5 shirt? 😄 )

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

12 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Fundamentally  though the way to keep these players longer (or get more for them) remains to stay in the prem. The fact we didn't show any ambition to do so (and were placated by saying we would not need to sell them all if we came down and would come back stronger) is what grates the most.

Run out of reactions but this is spot on.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

1 hour ago, Gordon Bennett said:

The idea that we were going to keep our good, young, ambitious, potential packed players was pie the sky. Why would they want to stay? No point keeping any player hi would rather be elsewhere if the money is right. 

I didn't expect us to keep them all which is why I was more p**sed off than most with our relegation. Some fans seemed to almost welcome it on the basis that its "all part of the plan" and bought the line that we would come back stronger.

I do think we need to put our foot down and try and hold on to the likes of Emi. He may grumble for a bit but will settle down and play if we are doing well.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I like the cut of both of them. Mumba's looked very promising too. (Could they please, please, please give him the number 5 shirt? 😄 )

Wahey!

I was rather hoping to get @Highland Canary's opinion on these players in an effort to get him to consider saying something positive, but I'm not holding my breath.

[yellowrider120 762]

13 hours ago, Teemu’s right foot said:

It is the long term plan, the club is now financially secure which allows the control to be left in the hands of the family by handing the reigns down to Tom. It’s always been about a sustainable model that keeps the club in their hands

Agree - 100%. Pity others can't see it. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Whilst I think martin shows some promise, he has done nothing yet to justify the elevated status he is given by some on here. He was released by Arsenal and did f**k all against Luton in the league cup where i thoight he looked a bit lightweight. I think he could turn out to be great but I don't think you can put him in the same bracket as any of the current "5" yet. He has some way to develop before he's ready for regular first team football. 

Did you actually read what @Thirsty Lizard wrote, Jim?

Clearly not. I shouldn’t have to repeat it, but for your benefit, TL feels that Martin is a better prospect at 18 than Todd was. That does not mean he will be a better player than Todd at 22, but we can HOPE.

Btw, let’s get some facts straight. Josh was not released by Arsenal. He ran his contract down, and then chose us. But don’t let that get in the way of the ‘Arsenal reject’ story 👍

[ricardo 7,385]

14 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Are you suffering from a bad dose of lockdown-itis Ricardo ?

You've been following this outfit for long enough to know that we buy cheap sell expensive ( usually ). It was obvious that when we went down some of our bright young things would be on the move as players used to move upward sometimes when we got promoted. Think Dave Watson and Steve Bruce for example.

You've said before that in football nothing stands still.

I am well aware of this and haven't got too attatched to any player or manager since we sold Ron Davies. Since that sad day I have accepted the fact that they all eventually move on or move out. The point I am trying to make is that we were sold a model that would put us in control of who and when we sell. The club would progress by developing from within and we would not go into debt to finance a promotion push or an attempt to avoid relegation from the Premier league.

I am perfectly fine with all that but current events seem to suggest that we are not in control of who and when we sell and that an entire team can be gutted without us being able to do very much about it. All of our young stars were eventually going to move on to better things and the idea was that we would be in control of when that happened.  Losing all five of our saleable players in one transfer window never seems to have been contemplated so my question now is how does that square with the model?

I don't know about you but If I were Farke I would be slightly miffed if someone kept swapping the pieces whilst I was trying to put a jig-saw together.

[Highland Canary 76]

That Sheffield United and Villa invested last season - stayed up - and both now are cracking on with a record 23.5m signing at Utd and Grealish in the case of Villa is somewhat of a contrast to waving the white flag last August. The consequence for us is the sale of our key assets missing the opportunity to try and kick on to the next level.

And it will be Groundhog Day should we promoted again. A team of championship+ players without the backing to even try and stay up.

The lack of ambition for growth at the club is staggering.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

6 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Did you actually read what @Thirsty Lizard wrote, Jim?

Clearly not. I shouldn’t have to repeat it, but for your benefit, TL feels that Martin is a better prospect at 18 than Todd was. That does not mean he will be a better player than Todd at 22, but we can HOPE.

Btw, let’s get some facts straight. Josh was not released by Arsenal. He ran his contract down, and then chose us. But don’t let that get in the way of the ‘Arsenal reject’ story 👍

Fair enough - perhaps I should have said he was allowed to leave by Arsenal (in the sense that they presumably could have offered him a professional contract had they been desperate to retain him). That in itself doesn;t mean he;s not going to be a very good player, lots of players move on at that sort of age. I hope he does become our next big thing.

But Cantwell was consistently being lauded as the best player in his academy age group from about the age of 15. I'm not sure if TL is expressing his personal view having watched both at youth level but I think Cantwell was  very widely seen as a top prospect at the age of 18 (and indeed  before).

My point was really that  there have been several  posts on here  saying we already have a ready made replacement for Todd or Emi in Martin but I think he has a way to go yet.

[yellowrider120 762]

46 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Thanks, I hadn't seen that report. Bearing those figures into account, you're quite right that these two sales should theoretically cover us for now.

However, add to that £12m the cost of having no fans attend at all this season (which is a real possibility), and you must be looking at the same figure again at the very least when you factor in both ticket sales and matchday revenue/food/merchandising. Plus there's also the money we've spent on players (using transfermarkt as a source) - at least £2.5m each on Hugill and Placheta, another £2m on Dowell, an unknown fee for Sorensen, plus loan fees for Skipp, Quintilla and Gibson (plus another £4m in January on McCallum and Rupp).

Then factor in the wages we're paying those new players, plus the fact we currently still have Trybull, Leitner and Drmic on the payroll, and it all adds up. If we sell Todd but keep Max and Emi, I'd be happy to go with what we have; Todd leaving will allow Martin more game time, and I'm absolutely convinced from what I've seen that he could go on to make a real impact at this level.

What's all that about then? Surely the 'add ons' for McCallum are structured round appearances (to all intents and purposes NIL so far and none until January at least) + 'promotion' bonus?? Re Rupp - if Webber agreed anything significant by way of 'add ons' for him then (in his own sarcastic words) he really has been ....'pissing money up the wall'!!   

[birchfest 397]

I'm surprised that people are surprised to be honest (and thats not a dig at the club in fact probably the opposite), they have been preparing us for this for about 2 years now. I don't think we've ever heard anything beyond our structure requires us to develop players, benefit from their contribution to the first team and then once they have outgrown us sell them for a massive profit, the sort of money other teams with billionaire owners can pluck from thin air but we unfortunately have to actively generate. 

 

Some people saying 'Well we didn't we try to stay in the premier league to match their ambition'... well, thats all very clever and satisfying to say, but unfortunately doesn't actually change the reality of the financial situation of the club (which is there for all to see). We could have had money available last summer, but shock horror it would have required us selling one of jewels or Pukki to give us that extra financial clout. Ambition and desire, and well thought out slogans unfortunately don't pay off the debt from Naismith et al, as well as the sizeable promotion bonuses/club bond scheme etc. 

 

I think what also needs to be understood, especially looking at the landscape in the championship, is that having financial stability is going to be a massive advantage over our rivals. Clubs will be going out of business, clubs will be having to cut wage bills and some will be losing key players at cut price rates to try to stay afloat. If we are able to sell in a way that stabilises us, allows us to only sell for good offers (which so far we have) and then be able to spend in January/summer its going to give us an advantage. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed to see top players leave, but ultimately they said we didn't need to sell, not that we wouldn't sell.

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

The problem with this supposed model or plan is that you're always relying on having 'x' number of players a season that you can sell for many, many millions and have either or both good enough youngsters to come in and take their place or spend enough money to replace them with players of equal quality.  I just don't see that as sustainable long-term for a self-funding club wanting to be successful. You can kind of go part way down that road, but the clubs around the world who do this sort of thing also have finances to back them up to maintain them at a certain level.

The other issue is out of the 5 prized assets.  How many came from Webber?  1 - Buendia!  Where's the next £15m - £20m Webber signing sale coming from and how many of those do we need a season to keep the plan going?  How many successful signings have we seen over the last 3 or 4 transfer windows? 

Just how long will Webber and Farke be able to dine out on the promotion season for? 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Fair enough - perhaps I should have said he was allowed to leave by Arsenal (in the sense that they presumably could have offered him a professional contract had they been desperate to retain him). That in itself doesn;t mean he;s not going to be a very good player, lots of players move on at that sort of age. I hope he does become our next big thing.

But Cantwell was consistently being lauded as the best player in his academy age group from about the age of 15. I'm not sure if TL is expressing his personal view having watched both at youth level but I think Cantwell was  very widely seen as a top prospect at the age of 18 (and indeed  before).

My point was really that  there have been several  posts on here  saying we already have a ready made replacement for Todd or Emi in Martin but I think he has a way to go yet.

And I think that post is equally reasonable, Jim 👍. I totally agree that Todd was already highly rated at 18 also, in fact I remember @nutty nigelin particular banging the drum for him from around about 15 actually - he was catching the eye even then. This is only opinion, and you are of course entitled to yours, but I’m with @Thirsty Lizardand @Feedthewolfon this. Martin may not have had his best game against Luton, but he’s still a terrific prospect and shown some moments of mercurial skill since his arrival here. I think it’s right to only hold very high hopes for such young talent. Game time for him I guess will be very much decided on what pans out with Emi and Todd these coming days or (gulp) couple of weeks. If either/both leave then I think we’ll see quite a lot of him this season. It is just my feeling that he’s going to surprise a lot of people. He made a conscientious decision to leave a big footballing academy in Arsenal and come to us, so that says a lot about him to me.

[birchfest 397]

10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I am well aware of this and haven't got too attatched to any player or manager since we sold Ron Davies. Since that sad day I have accepted the fact that they all eventually move on or move out. The point I am trying to make is that we were sold a model that would put us in control of who and when we sell. The club would progress by developing from within and we would not go into debt to finance a promotion push or an attempt to avoid relegation from the Premier league.

I am perfectly fine with all that but current events seem to suggest that we are not in control of who and when we sell and that an entire team can be gutted without us being able to do very much about it. All of our young stars were eventually going to move on to better things and the idea was that we would be in control of when that happened.  Losing all five of our saleable players in one transfer window never seems to have been contemplated so my question now is how does that square with the model?

I don't know about you but If I were Farke I would be slightly miffed if someone kept swapping the pieces whilst I was trying to put a jig-saw together.

 

10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I am well aware of this and haven't got too attatched to any player or manager since we sold Ron Davies. Since that sad day I have accepted the fact that they all eventually move on or move out. The point I am trying to make is that we were sold a model that would put us in control of who and when we sell. The club would progress by developing from within and we would not go into debt to finance a promotion push or an attempt to avoid relegation from the Premier league.

I am perfectly fine with all that but current events seem to suggest that we are not in control of who and when we sell and that an entire team can be gutted without us being able to do very much about it. All of our young stars were eventually going to move on to better things and the idea was that we would be in control of when that happened.  Losing all five of our saleable players in one transfer window never seems to have been contemplated so my question now is how does that square with the model?

I don't know about you but If I were Farke I would be slightly miffed if someone kept swapping the pieces whilst I was trying to put a jig-saw together.

Ricardo, i'll start by saying I really respect your voice on this message board and view you someone with pragmatic and realistic views of most situations. However, respectfully, I have to completely disagree with this. We've not sold anyone for a cut price or been bullied to sell when we didn't want to, look at the whole Lewis/liverpool and Aarons/barca situation to show that we appear to be firmly in control of what happens with regards to timing and price.

 

As of this moment we have lost 2 of 5, that is still less than half of them and I think both went for a price that was on our terms and in terms of timing also on our terms. We have bought left back and Centre back replacements, we haven't been caught with our trousers down.  

[ricardo 7,385]

1 minute ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

The problem with this supposed model or plan is that you're always relying on having 'x' number of players a season that you can sell for many, many millions and have either or both good enough youngsters to come in and take their place or spend enough money to replace them with players of equal quality.  I just don't see that as sustainable long-term for a self-funding club wanting to be successful. You can kind of go part way down that road, but the clubs around the world who do this sort of thing also have finances to back them up to maintain them at a certain level.

The other issue is out of the 5 prized assets.  How many came from Webber?  1 - Buendia!  Where's the next £15m - £20m Webber signing sale coming from and how many of those do we need a season to keep the plan going?  How many successful signings have we seen over the last 3 or 4 transfer windows? 

Just how long will Webber and Farke be able to dine out on the promotion season for? 

Indeed, and relying on Farke to knock up promotion challenging teams season after season is more than a hostage to fortune. I think we can just about stand three going and still remain positive about promotion. Any more than that and its back in the lap of the Gods. We had a long period of good fortune and exciting seasons, probably a lot more than our share. It won't last forever.

[Van wink 2,994]

We were never going to turn down this sort of money. The other two will be gone as well before the end of this window...........a year of “consolidation” ahead 😉

[ricardo 7,385]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

We were never going to turn down this sort of money.

Wish I had a quid for every time I've heard that sort of statement from Carrow Road.😉

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I am well aware of this and haven't got too attatched to any player or manager since we sold Ron Davies. Since that sad day I have accepted the fact that they all eventually move on or move out. The point I am trying to make is that we were sold a model that would put us in control of who and when we sell. The club would progress by developing from within and we would not go into debt to finance a promotion push or an attempt to avoid relegation from the Premier league.

I am perfectly fine with all that but current events seem to suggest that we are not in control of who and when we sell and that an entire team can be gutted without us being able to do very much about it. All of our young stars were eventually going to move on to better things and the idea was that we would be in control of when that happened.  Losing all five of our saleable players in one transfer window never seems to have been contemplated so my question now is how does that square with the model?

I don't know about you but If I were Farke I would be slightly miffed if someone kept swapping the pieces whilst I was trying to put a jig-saw together.

I agree, but where this all fell down was not spending money in the summer to strengthen the squad and getting relegated.  If we had stayed up, possibly, maybe only one would have left.  Once we got relegated the whole plan imploded.  It's very difficult for any Championship club to hold on to players when PL clubs are offering £15m - £30m for their players.  Once a player has their head turned, what's the point in forcing an unhappy player to stay?

Maybe Webber lied to us all along?  He said the aim was to become an established top 26 club.  But he also isn't stupid and he would have known that we would struggle to hold on to players once back in the Championship.  He would have to be naive in the extreme to believe otherwise.  Perhaps his statement was more about that we wouldn't be bullied into letting players go on the cheap rather than we would be able to keep star players at the club whilst in the Champs once bids had been received from the PL?

The Steve Bull's of this world just don't happen anymore.

BTW, this isn't a defence of Webber, I am far from his biggest fan.

[Indy 3,297]

2 hours ago, Crabbycanary3 said:

I am absolutely fine with this. We have nurtured, for the first time in our history, 5 talents (at once) and that is a massive positive and they will generate more money than we have ever seen. That is our model, whether you like it or not. What we do with that money, remains to be seen, and the next fortnight will determine a lot. I certainly do not want to be a hypocrite and want my Club to be wildly unsustainable due to a misguided, single minded, thought process that says you HAVE to be at the football Top Table, to be considered successful and yet are tens of millions of pounds in debt. That's not proper sporting success, it's a fallacy. We, as fans, just see the top (public) level of running a football club, so we are bound to have a one eyed view sometimes. It's not as easy as saying that Webber, et al, have renounced their duties. It's way deeper than that.

If we go and buy players that, or the remaining squad, get us up this year , then great. We all like to win, and we all want to be the best we can be, but we are where we are, with us trying to claw back previous years administerial/manager decisions. No Club is perfect.

You can't reasonably expect us to have kept any of those 5, so if 1 or 2 stay then that's a bonus. If all 5 go, then , meh, it is what it is. There will still be 11 people in a green and yellow shirt the next time we turn up at Carrow Road. 

OTBC💚💛

 

 

Yes indeed, the measure of Farkes and Webber’s success is promotion and the development of five very good young players. I have confidence more are behind them.

But I would like to see something done with this money, like others said we’ve bought the land behind the City Stand I’m sure feasibility studies have already been done so no fans allowed perfect time to get that stand built, I’m sure plans could be drawn up and fast tracked through the regulators at this unique time. Add capacity while we’re financially and capacity good position to do so.

Or buy four or five good solid youngsters who are willing to come here for development, but don’t just hide it in the bank to pay tax on each year it comes in!