Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Tootingyellow

Nice bank account but a very average team.

Recommended Posts

If we do lose Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons we will have a fat bank account but what might well be a very average team. Without them it's difficult to see us being better than mid-table and we'll have no time to replace them. It's a shame we didn't make a greater investment in staying up. You don't have to spend a £100m but spending £1-2m is pretty much ensuring the outcome that took place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We’ve got 20 players out on loan and I can’t imagine that interest in our young players has come as a complete surprise. I’d hope the possibility of losing one/some/all might have crossed somebody’s mind and that contingency planning is in place. 
 

Hope. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Tootingyellow said:

If we do lose Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons we will have a fat bank account but what might well be a very average team. Without them it's difficult to see us being better than mid-table and we'll have no time to replace them. It's a shame we didn't make a greater investment in staying up. You don't have to spend a £100m but spending £1-2m is pretty much ensuring the outcome that took place.

Cardiff spent £30 million the season before and didn't stay up. How much do you think we should have spent? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Cardiff spent £30 million the season before and didn't stay up. How much do you think we should have spent? 

Cardiff haven't threatened to go back up either. Maybe this year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Cardiff haven't threatened to go back up either. Maybe this year?

Well they made it to the play-offs last season, but were beaten by Fulham. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Tootingyellow said:

If we do lose Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons we will have a fat bank account but what might well be a very average team. Without them it's difficult to see us being better than mid-table and we'll have no time to replace them. It's a shame we didn't make a greater investment in staying up. You don't have to spend a £100m but spending £1-2m is pretty much ensuring the outcome that took place.

Developing and selling players like Maddison, Lewis, Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons is the business plan for goodness sake. It allows the next crop of young talent to come through and in turn be sold at premium prices. As talented young players see that we can launch them into top flight UK and European football the demand to come here will continue to increase. That's our path back to the EPL, not grimly hanging on to what we have. Whether these players leave now, or later, they will leave.

As we already have so many players, IMO I think we should rebuild the City Stand with the funds - call it the Ben Godfrey stand if you like.... 

Edited by Surfer
  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Well they made it to the play-offs last season, but were beaten by Fulham. 

Yes I remember now. I have actually put them in top six on one of my canary challenge entries.

I guess the point is that if we'd had another 30m to spend we may well have been relegated anyway.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

More than £1m to £2m, wouldn’t you agree?

The thing is, these figures are absolute nonsense. We probably spent that alone on the loan fee for Fahrmann. 

As soon as we went up we incurred a significant amount of promotion related bonuses paid to players. We gave a bunch of players significantly improved contracts so that we could realise sale values of £20m plus precisely in this scenario, and to reward success. In relation to the Emi Buendia purchase from Getafe, we incurred a £3.5m payment in a promotion-related add-on to the deal. We signed several players on loan added to Fahrmann, all of which incurred wage and loan fees. Drmic would have had a substantial signing on fee. Rupp was an undisclosed fee. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

15 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Developing and selling players like Maddison, Lewis, Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons is the business plan for goodness sake. It allows the next crop of young talent to come through and in turn be sold at premium prices. As talented young players see that we can launch them into top flight UK and European football the demand to come here will continue to increase. That's our path back to the EPL, not grimly hanging on to what we have. Whether these players leave now, or later, they will leave.

As we already have so many players, IMO I think we should rebuild the City Stand with the funds - call it the Ben Godfrey stand if you like.... 

It does seem like now is the optimum moment to have an increased stadium capacity...

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Grando said:

 

It does seem like now is the optimum moment to have an increased stadium capacity...

It's the optimum time to build a new stand without any disruption to supporters on matchdays........... 😉 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Kingston Yellow said:

More than £1m to £2m, wouldn’t you agree?

Yes, we could have splashed out £8.5 million on a Naismith equivalent or £8 million on a Van Wolfswinkel equivalent. As Beefy has pointed out we spent far more than £2 million anyway. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

It's the optimum time to build a new stand without any disruption to supporters on matchdays........... 😉 

Maybe. Then again a vaccine for Polio took 39 years so can't be sure, might be better to invest in improvements or substitutes for ifollow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

It's the optimum time to build a new stand without any disruption to supporters on matchdays........... 😉 

It’s a good point actually, I wonder if that’s something that’s being considered right now, given we’re likely to be making a few quid in the coming days that could finally make this feasible. Minimal disruption as you say, and I wouldn’t mind betting SW would like the ground expansion on his CV - he’s already improved many areas of the club, the most impressive and important so far being the overhaul of Colney.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no issue with not spending last year, we weren’t as bad as the last 13 results.

But I must admit to wonder what the point of signing so many young players then loaning them, is it for the good of our first team or to keep the finances ticking over?

If we do lose the four younger stars without some replacements, very short in time till the 5th, must question the way the summer transfers have been handled! 
We were always going to be at the mercy of the rich clubs.

Edited by Indy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grando said:

It does seem like now is the optimum moment to have an increased stadium capacity...

You are being sarcastic but it may be correct. 

If we declare a profit due to transfer fees we'll end up paying a huge corporation tax bill, and also there is VAT on transfer fees and that bill will be large too.

So if this is that the largest our pot of cash is going to realistically ever be, starting the City stand tomorrow and getting as much of it done and paid for before next June would be perfect. Alternative would be to spend it on players, but that would sort of defeat the object of the project.

The problem is that we don't have planning approval for that, although we do have some historic designs. Looking at 8 weeks to get planning approval, and that would take us to December... worst possible time I suspect to try and pull together the teams needed to start the project.

A new City Stand would be a nice legacy for the departing Delia Smith, and mean that Webber has permanently left his mark by getting us in the position to fund it after more than a decade of talking about it.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tootingyellow said:

If we do lose Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons we will have a fat bank account but what might well be a very average team. Without them it's difficult to see us being better than mid-table and we'll have no time to replace them. It's a shame we didn't make a greater investment in staying up. You don't have to spend a £100m but spending £1-2m is pretty much ensuring the outcome that took place.

That's exactly what everyone said after we sold Maddison and Murphy.

We currently have a much stronger squad than then with many highly rated youngsters and a healthy dose of experience. I'm also sure another couple will be coming in if the worst happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Surfer said:

Developing and selling players like Maddison, Lewis, Godfrey, Cantwell, Buendia and Aarons is the business plan for goodness sake. It allows the next crop of young talent to come through and in turn be sold at premium prices. As talented young players see that we can launch them into top flight UK and European football the demand to come here will continue to increase. That's our path back to the EPL, not grimly hanging on to what we have. Whether these players leave now, or later, they will leave.

As we already have so many players, IMO I think we should rebuild the City Stand with the funds - call it the Ben Godfrey stand if you like.... 

It may be our role now (and what a dismal, pathetic role it is - like a modern day Crewe Alexandra) but it’s not our pathway back to the EPL and it’s not a way we are going to stay in the EPL. Fans will get sick of it and you won’t need the rebuilt City Stand. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

These are very strange social and economic times. With no spectators probably for the whole of this season all non Premiership clubs are in trouble. We should be grateful that we have assets that we can realize which brings in serious money to guarantee our safety as a club in the long term and football at least at championship level. The PL will be expected to assist the rest of the football league with a survival package which i suspect will be akin to the old workhouse. PL  transfer spending in the current climate will be reduced, transfer fees like the stock market will be less than pre covid and very few  league clubs will have much money to spend on transfers and i suspect in the league future salary contracts will also be reduced. It is not all doom and gloom then we still have a club and playing at a decent level and in a far far healthier state than most other championship clubs. The disruption of players coming and going may well seriously damage our chances of promotion, but it is a long season and it also depends what the financial fall out to other clubs have, we may be pleasantly surprised come the second half of the season. I wish all the departing players well, sad but inevitable that they are going but we are making good money on them all its not as though any of them have run down their contracts and gone for nothing and i agree we will probably lose the lot now. Clearly a lot of our younger players at the moment are not thought to be ready or good enough hence many are out  on loan, BUT there are others who may well be and may well seize the opportunity that they will be given of playing. We may well be advised to buy a couple of good championship players to bolster the squad if all the young top talent leave. Forget if players are good enough for the PL we are not in the PL and if and when we get there again then that is the time to have that debate, we need to concentrate on  getting a settled championship squad as soon as possible and for ambitious league players we will  be a very attractive club to join. Non of this is a surprise, much to be grateful for look forward not back and if we are in and around the mix by the festive period we still have a decent chance at promotion albeit next season may be a more realistic bet

Edited by Yorkshire Canary
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

These are very strange social and economic times. With no spectators probably for the whole of this season all non Premiership clubs are in trouble. We should be grateful that we have assets that we can realize which brings in serious money to guarantee our safety as a club in the long term and football at least at championship level. The PL will be expected to assist the rest of the football league with a survival package which i suspect will be akin to the old workhouse. PL  transfer spending in the current climate will be reduced, transfer fees like the stock market will be less than pre covid and very few  league clubs will have much money to spend on transfers and i suspect in the league future salary contracts will also be reduced. It is not all doom and gloom then we still have a club and playing at a decent level and in a far far healthier state than most other championship clubs. The disruption of players coming and going may well seriously damage our chances of promotion, but it is a long season and it also depends what the financial fall out to other clubs have, we may be pleasantly surprised come the second half of the season. I wish all the departing players well, sad but inevitable that they are going but we are making good money on them all its not as though any of them have run down their contracts and gone for nothing and i agree we will probably lose the lot now. Clearly a lot of our younger players at the moment are not thought to be ready or good enough hence many are out  on loan, BUT there are others who may well be and may well seize the opportunity that they will be given of playing. We may well be advised to buy a couple of good championship players to bolster the squad if all the young top talent leave. Forget if players are good enough for the PL we are not in the PL and if and when we get there again then that is the time to have that debate, we need to concentrate on  getting a settled championship squad as soon as possible and for ambitious league players we will  be a very attractive club to join. Non of this is a surprise, much to be grateful for look forward not back and if we are in and around the mix by the festive period we still have a decent chance at promotion albeit next season may be a more realistic bet

We do not need to sell all of these players to cover any hole left by covid and it just not be allowed to be used as the excuse. One or two  sales maybe, not 5. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

Forget if players are good enough for the PL we are not in the PL and if and when we get there again then that is the time to have that debate

Now hold your horses on this argument. We WERE IN THE PREM and did not HAVE THAT DEBATE - instead we spent a pathetic figure which made us a national laughing stock and guaranteed our swift exit. An exit which, in turn, means we are unlikely to hold onto the very players who might stabalise us at that level had they received a little help in the transfer market. 

This is where the whole 'plan' is exposed as nonsense. We have to sell on relegation making us weaker. And this is after we have looked the gift horse of promotion in the mouth time and time again. Just when can we make a go of staying there? Not ever if we keep needing to trouser the windfall to sustain the obvious lack of investment is the answer. 

The decision to bank the money on promotion was always about shoring up accounts not making us ambitious on the pitch - and with the club now looking like selling the players they assured us they did not need to sell - fans have every right to ask questions. The club wants to have its cake and eat it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We do not need to sell all of these players to cover any hole left by covid and it just not be allowed to be used as the excuse. One or two  sales maybe, not 5. 

I really do not think that a lot of people realize how bad things are likely to get in the football league this season, with no guarantee that it will be better for the season after that. We have been shrewd enough as a club to get our young talent on decent contracts so that we can realise a significant return on them. At the end of the day as has been said many many times if a player wants to leave for a bigger club, more money and and opportunity to advance their career we cannot stand in their way and for the most part having a player handcuffed to the club when they do not want to be here will just be full of negative consequences. Buendia is my favorite player, he would rip up this division and he is the lynchpin of the squad in my opinion, but if he does not want to stay why keep him, he has not played a games for us yet this season, some of that was down to suspension but also latterly because his head was not right. We notice it more this season because we have 5 good young players that many other clubs want, often in the past it has just been the odd one. I regret their going in many ways but as King Canute demonstrated you cannot stop the tide coming in

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Now hold your horses on this argument. We WERE IN THE PREM and did not HAVE THAT DEBATE - instead we spent a pathetic figure which made us a national laughing stock and guaranteed our swift exit. An exit which, in turn, means we are unlikely to hold onto the very players who might stabalise us at that level had they received a little help in the transfer market. 

This is where the whole 'plan' is exposed as nonsense. We have to sell on relegation making us weaker. And this is after we have looked the gift horse of promotion in the mouth time and time again. Just when can we make a go of staying there? Not ever if we keep needing to trouser the windfall to sustain the obvious lack of investment is the answer. 

The decision to bank the money on promotion was always about shoring up accounts not making us ambitious on the pitch - and with the club now looking like selling the players they assured us they did not need to sell - fans have every right to ask questions. The club wants to have its cake and eat it. 

My comments here are in relation to players we buy now ie we should sign players that are good in the championship now to assist us to get up rather  trying to second guess whether the player would be any good in the top flight. What you do when you get into the top flight is another debate. Sheffield Utd  got promoted with a team by and large well drilled Championship and League 1 journey men, it surprised many how well they did when they went up, just like it surprised many how well Holt and Morrison did for us years before. We were champions our young players did well  good enough for them to be wanted by others when we came down, most of the others Krul apart did not make the jump up that many of the Sheffield Utd players did. Yes  the Blades spent  about £30m when they went up but non of those players actually made much of a contribution to their season. Leeds and Villa have the backing to make levels of investment we can only dream about, Villa it just worked, for Leeds the early indications  are that it may work. Our track record for many many seasons when in the PL is that when we spend big money, it is big money by our standards but not by other clubs standards and that we are left with a bang average player on high wages that no one wants. I cannot recall over the last 20 years when we have been in PL buying a player that really makes a big difference there and then since Dean Ashton and what would he cost in the current market £30m plus

Edited by Yorkshire Canary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It may be our role now (and what a dismal, pathetic role it is - like a modern day Crewe Alexandra) but it’s not our pathway back to the EPL and it’s not a way we are going to stay in the EPL. Fans will get sick of it and you won’t need the rebuilt City Stand. 

Fans patient enough to think long term rather than from a game to game perspective won't.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we are whining about not buying players when we went up, despite allegedly having 5 players worth 20 million each on our first 11.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

So we are whining about not buying players when we went up, despite allegedly having 5 players worth 20 million each on our first 11.

Well you can easily argue that if we had such a spine of talented young players, would it not have been good to give them some supporting talent to maximise our chances of staying up and keeping those players.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Fans patient enough to think long term rather than from a game to game perspective won't.

How long term do we have to think though? Lets say we do lose all 5, if at Christmas we're sitting in 14th and looking uninspiring is that still part of the long term plan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, king canary said:

How long term do we have to think though? Lets say we do lose all 5, if at Christmas we're sitting in 14th and looking uninspiring is that still part of the long term plan?

We should judge things at the end of the season not Christmas: where you are mid season means nothing. If we finish the season in 14th position it will be an under-achievement and disappointing.

If we remain solvent, however, we are likely to be in a stronger position that we would be if we were heavily in debt and at the mercy of banks/ owners or other "investors."

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

I really do not think that a lot of people realize how bad things are likely to get in the football league this season, with no guarantee that it will be better for the season after that. We have been shrewd enough as a club to get our young talent on decent contracts so that we can realise a significant return on them. At the end of the day as has been said many many times if a player wants to leave for a bigger club, more money and and opportunity to advance their career we cannot stand in their way and for the most part having a player handcuffed to the club when they do not want to be here will just be full of negative consequences. Buendia is my favorite player, he would rip up this division and he is the lynchpin of the squad in my opinion, but if he does not want to stay why keep him, he has not played a games for us yet this season, some of that was down to suspension but also latterly because his head was not right. We notice it more this season because we have 5 good young players that many other clubs want, often in the past it has just been the odd one. I regret their going in many ways but as King Canute demonstrated you cannot stop the tide coming in

We could have stopped the tide from coming in by staying in the premier league. We didnlt even attaempt to do so, we were told because the plan meant that if we went down we would be able to come back stronger. 

Whilst the squad we will be left with once all 5 have gone will admittedly still be good enough to have a crack at the top six there is no way its going to be stronger and IF we did happen to get back to the prem without these 5 we will need 7 or 8 new players rather than perhaps 2 or 3. We will then be told we can;t afford to spend. 

Meanwhile Delia continues to have her boardroom joliles every week (that solidarity with the fans didn;t last long did it, just long enough for them to virtue signal) and continues to see her asset (which she picked up massively on the cheap) funded without her putting anything in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...