Nice bank account but a very average team.

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Cardiff haven't threatened to go back up either. Maybe this year?

They were unlucky in the playoffs last season!

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

6 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

They were unlucky in the playoffs last season!

Yes they were better than Fulham especially in the 2nd leg.

[Jack Barak 46]

9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You are being sarcastic but it may be correct. 

If we declare a profit due to transfer fees we'll end up paying a huge corporation tax bill, and also there is VAT on transfer fees and that bill will be large too.

So if this is that the largest our pot of cash is going to realistically ever be, starting the City stand tomorrow and getting as much of it done and paid for before next June would be perfect. Alternative would be to spend it on players, but that would sort of defeat the object of the project.

The problem is that we don't have planning approval for that, although we do have some historic designs. Looking at 8 weeks to get planning approval, and that would take us to December... worst possible time I suspect to try and pull together the teams needed to start the project.

A new City Stand would be a nice legacy for the departing Delia Smith, and mean that Webber has permanently left his mark by getting us in the position to fund it after more than a decade of talking about it.

Sadly the spending on a new stand is going to be capital and therefore not deductible against CT. However, I would imagine we have some losses to soak up any profit so I wouldn't sweat that particularly.

This does seem like a good time to rebuild the stand but it would require us to be pretty confident that next year we will be allowed to have fans back in the ground. If it runs on after that then I struggle to see how many of the clubs that have been in the Championship for a while can survive at all.

I would expect there to be some replacement signings and the club will retain the cash as a buffer against uncertainty, it seems the sensible thing to do at this time.

[Jerrykerry 223]

When a lot of clubs are going to go under in the next few months, and have to sell to survive, our position is probably envied by every club outside the Premier league. 

Not that the moaners on here care. 

[Doomcaster 10]

Even Webber himself said the recruitment was wrong for the Prem - so no if or but's - Webber failed, but he had the balls to admit it

then we all get excited about Webbers 13 new signings - 9 are possible / potential / prospects, 1in 6 according to Farke  - so really 4 max for the 1st team (inc a fantastic loan)

We will probably lose Cantwell (don't want to be at NCFC, but no loss imho) / Godfrey (great potential) / Arrons (great potential) 

The one I would miss most is Buendia - but sadly I think he will depart to pasture new, as there is a problem with him & Farke

This is season 4 for Farke - but nothing like the plan he suggested.  Farke makes the same  mistakes & predictable game plan every week since the Prem - we could have been out on the pitch for a week & not scored a goal on Sunday

Last season I gave Farke a 'free bat' after his unexpected promotion - but not this season, as I expect him to get up & running and gain promotion (as promised by the lower quality of the Championship - aka Mr Farke)

Not in the top 6 after 6 matches - just sack Farke, as I am getting bored with his excuses for not getting it right on the pitch

[TIL 1010 4,722]

23 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

When a lot of clubs are going to go under in the next few months, and have to sell to survive, our position is probably envied by every club outside the Premier league. 

Not that the moaners on here care. 

I would wait for the accounts to be published if i were you before stating that.

[GenerationA47 747]

18 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I would wait for the accounts to be published if i were you before stating that.

As with all published company accounts, up to a point they tell the story the company wants them  to tell. Meaning they will be indicative and interesting, but by no means definitive.

[Grando 260]

10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You are being sarcastic but it may be correct. 

If we declare a profit due to transfer fees we'll end up paying a huge corporation tax bill, and also there is VAT on transfer fees and that bill will be large too.

So if this is that the largest our pot of cash is going to realistically ever be, starting the City stand tomorrow and getting as much of it done and paid for before next June would be perfect. Alternative would be to spend it on players, but that would sort of defeat the object of the project.

The problem is that we don't have planning approval for that, although we do have some historic designs. Looking at 8 weeks to get planning approval, and that would take us to December... worst possible time I suspect to try and pull together the teams needed to start the project.

A new City Stand would be a nice legacy for the departing Delia Smith, and mean that Webber has permanently left his mark by getting us in the position to fund it after more than a decade of talking about it.

It’s a fair point, though I suppose at the current moment predicting future supporter demand and trying to guess future finances given all the unknowns about TV revenues etc means that huge capital investment spending would seem very risky. And we know our owners are risk averse.

[paul moy 235]

6 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It may be our role now (and what a dismal, pathetic role it is - like a modern day Crewe Alexandra) but it’s not our pathway back to the EPL and it’s not a way we are going to stay in the EPL. Fans will get sick of it and you won’t need the rebuilt City Stand. 

Not at all.  I see us as a Borussia Dortmund or an Ajax, where youngsters prefer to go to develop their early careers and where they see the top clubs as a block to their early progression. Not dismal at all but a major source of pride.

Edited October 1, 2020 by paul moy

[hogesar 9,618]

I love some people's response on here.

@Jim Smith and other with practically "Well why didn't we just stay in the prem" - the suggestion of course that spending X amount of money would have kept us up. 

We didn't spend as much as Jim or DCB wanted, so now that's being used as a criticism for us being financially in a good position now? Or not? I'm confused. Either way, since we didn't stay up, surely its good we didn't spend that money as we presently look at things? Especially with the events of this year, it's actually great news that we didn't take a punt on £30 million worth of players and their salaries - or we would be in a position now where we would have to sell our younger players and maybe Lewis would have gone to Liverpool for £8 million?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

39 minutes ago, paul moy said:

Not at all.  I see us a Borussia Dortmund or an Ajax, where youngsters prefer to go to develop their early careers and where they see the top clubs as a block to their early progression. Not dismal at all but a major source of pride.

Although those clubs are competing at the very top of their respective domestic divisions and winning things. Not in the second tier.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

37 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I love some people's response on here.

@Jim Smith and other with practically "Well why didn't we just stay in the prem" - the suggestion of course that spending X amount of money would have kept us up. 

We didn't spend as much as Jim or DCB wanted, so now that's being used as a criticism for us being financially in a good position now? Or not? I'm confused. Either way, since we didn't stay up, surely its good we didn't spend that money as we presently look at things? Especially with the events of this year, it's actually great news that we didn't take a punt on £30 million worth of players and their salaries - or we would be in a position now where we would have to sell our younger players and maybe Lewis would have gone to Liverpool for £8 million?

We are in a position where we apparently have to sell our young players anyway or so i keep being told on here because there is no point in keeping any of them who want to move or for whom we reecive an adequate bid. We were always going to be able to sell some of these players this summer if we needed to. We had that "safety blanket" that should have enabled (and indeed emboldened) us to supplement them with a bit more quality last season to try and take the opportunity to build a top flight team around them. Instead we will lose them all and have to start again. We should still be competitive in the champ and I get that it will give the club security to be cash rich but I can;t get exceited about that. 

Your comment also assumes that anyone we bought would have immediately been worthless on relegation whcih would not necessarily be the case.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

12 hours ago, essex canary said:

Maybe. Then again a vaccine for Polio took 39 years so can't be sure, might be better to invest in improvements or substitutes for ifollow?

Trying to watch the match on a potato would be an improvement on iFollow.

[Jerrykerry 223]

5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Trying to watch the match on a potato would be an improvement on iFollow.

And as many have pointed out, it's your hardware, software or connection. 

Because many have watched the 3 league games without so much as a single buffering moment. 

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

1 minute ago, Jerrykerry said:

And as many have pointed out, it's your hardware, software or connection. 

Because many have watched the 3 league games without so much as a single buffering moment. 

 

It's not just the connection.

The Huddersfield game was apparently unavailable in my region, even though according to iFollow's terms it should've been. I managed to watch on a perfect stream without any connection issues. 

The Preston game worked fine on iFollow.

The Bournemouth game didn't work at all on my laptop, which was the same device, WiFi etc. as the previous two matches. After 35 minutes of the game, an iFollow customer service agent told me to download the app on my phone, and that worked just fine on the same WiFi connection. 

It isn't just these problems either; I've had issues with payment and the customer service is poor.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

21 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We are in a position where we apparently have to sell our young players anyway or so i keep being told on here because there is no point in keeping any of them who want to move or for whom we reecive an adequate bid. We were always going to be able to sell some of these players this summer if we needed to. We had that "safety blanket" that should have enabled (and indeed emboldened) us to supplement them with a bit more quality last season to try and take the opportunity to build a top flight team around them. Instead we will lose them all and have to start again. We should still be competitive in the champ and I get that it will give the club security to be cash rich but I can;t get exceited about that. 

Your comment also assumes that anyone we bought would have immediately been worthless on relegation whcih would not necessarily be the case.

Hindsight is 20/20 but if we do end up losing all 5, this late in the window, clearly with little time to sign our plan A, or even plan B replacements, it would certainly seem like last year's decision was an unnecessary failure to roll any notable dice. We may now end up wads of cash which we can't use properly until Jan or even next season..

As Jim says, surely there was little risk in spending a little more, knowing that we could recoup some value in our transfer outlay if we were to go down. Our crop of youngsters already had a good reputation at this time. As mentioned in the thread some spend was applied in maintaining the group and boosting contracts and player value which shouldn't be overlooked entirely, but was there a better middle ground between under and overspending?

Worst case scenario: if we now can't dig our heels in for any of our 5, can't strengthen accordingly to replace those who leave, and end up not competing for the top 6 or worse - then you would have to say the decision to not spend was a poor decision.

Although we certainly now have a stronger base financially for spending in the champs, as already evidenced in our transfers, if that bolstered spending comes with a need to rebuild the entire squad it maybe isn't quite such good money to have.

However, things are still unknown at the moment, and criticisms should be reserved until we understand our position at the end of the window and the coming performances without our starlets / with any new signings.

Some extra patience should surely be allowed of Farke and the team for this disruption so deep into the season. 10 games after the window closes and I think we'll have a rough idea.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Jim Smith 2,314]

2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Hindsight is 20/20 but if we do end up losing all 5, this late in the window, clearly with little time to sign our plan A, or plan B replacements, it would certainly seem like last year's decision was an unnecessary failure to roll any notable dice. We may now end up wads of cash which we can't properly use until Jan or even next season..

As Jim says, surely there was little risk in spending a little more, knowing that we could recoup some value in our transfer outlay if we were to go down. Our crop of youngsters already had a good reputation at this time.

Worst case scenario: if we now can't dig our heels in for any of our 5, can't strengthen accordingly to replace those who leave, and end up not competing for the top 6 or worse - then you would have to say the decision to not spend was a poor decision.

Although we certainly now have a stronger base financially for spending in the champs, as already evidenced in our transfers, if that bolstered spending comes with a need to rebuild the entire squad it maybe isn't quite such good money to have.

However, things are still unknown at the moment, and criticisms should be reserved until we understand our position at the end of the window and the coming performances without our starlets / with any new signings.

Some extra patience should surely be allowed of Farke and the team for this disruption so deep into the season. 10 games after the window closes and I think we'll have a rough idea.

I'd agree its a bit of a nightmare for Farke until after the window closes although I will be annoyed if he excludes Buendia again this weekend.

[paul moy 235]

30 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Although those clubs are competing at the very top of their respective domestic divisions and winning things. Not in the second tier.

Indeed, but they are in a weaker league with less emphasis on money and less competitive than the Prem so it is easier for them to maintain their position.

If we existed in the german leagues i've no doubt we'd be in the top division too.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

11 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I'd agree its a bit of a nightmare for Farke until after the window closes although I will be annoyed if he excludes Buendia again this weekend.

I will be disappointed. But more so in Buendia, I think Farke's comments did leave the door open for both Buendia / Cantwell to step back inside. They just need to get their heads together.

If they still have not performed / focused in training, and bids have been accepted, or they are simply convinced they want to leave - then I can't see any reason for including them. We will need to get used to playing without so it may as well start ASAP.

[hogesar 9,618]

40 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We are in a position where we apparently have to sell our young players anyway or so i keep being told on here because there is no point in keeping any of them who want to move or for whom we reecive an adequate bid. We were always going to be able to sell some of these players this summer if we needed to. We had that "safety blanket" that should have enabled (and indeed emboldened) us to supplement them with a bit more quality last season to try and take the opportunity to build a top flight team around them. Instead we will lose them all and have to start again. We should still be competitive in the champ and I get that it will give the club security to be cash rich but I can;t get exceited about that. 

Your comment also assumes that anyone we bought would have immediately been worthless on relegation whcih would not necessarily be the case.

Yes, but you seem to be criticising the club for what some fans are saying.

As it turns out, we've turned down the bid for Godfrey.

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/canaries-ben-godfrey-transfer-bid-rejected-everton-1-6864018

[Darth Vadis 150]

3 hours ago, Jack Barak said:

Sadly the spending on a new stand is going to be capital and therefore not deductible against CT. However, I would imagine we have some losses to soak up any profit so I wouldn't sweat that particularly.

This does seem like a good time to rebuild the stand but it would require us to be pretty confident that next year we will be allowed to have fans back in the ground. If it runs on after that then I struggle to see how many of the clubs that have been in the Championship for a while can survive at all.

I would expect there to be some replacement signings and the club will retain the cash as a buffer against uncertainty, it seems the sensible thing to do at this time.

One thing for certain is that when fans do return, the demand is going to be through the roof.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

You seem to be forgetting our new clubs model is to be the "Dortmund" style

 

Aka develop young players into stars and sell them for a profit, and I wonder if the clubs position in the Leauge comes second to that now

[pete 318]

There seems to be consternation about City facing a large Corporation Tax bill.  I don't know what income is counted for tax purposes for Income tax purposes it is income earned during the tax year.  We have sold Lewis for £15m but are not going to receive the whole sum in any one year and maybe over the duration of the contract.  If Corporation Tax is calculated as Income Tax a profit of £4m or so is not a huge sum as rate of tax I believe is 20%.

Unless more moves transpire on a similar basis of Lewis move there seems to be little chance of additional profit this year.  The Lewis income will be able to offset any losses which are likely to be significant. 

[Ian 1,129]

4 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

We could have stopped the tide from coming in by staying in the premier league. We didnlt even attaempt to do so, we were told because the plan meant that if we went down we would be able to come back stronger. 

So you think these teams wouldn't be in for our players if we had stayed up? Everyone has agreed recruitment was high risk and didn't pay off, but I'm not sure that this follows.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

42 minutes ago, Ian said:

So you think these teams wouldn't be in for our players if we had stayed up? Everyone has agreed recruitment was high risk and didn't pay off, but I'm not sure that this follows.

I don't think they all would have wanted to move on no and had there been approcahes then we would be talking £50m rather than £20m for a couple of them. Look at what Southampton get for their players.

[Surfer 1,547]

6 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

The new Crewe. What a depressing start to the day.

Or an English Ajax. Sounds really good to me.

BTW they appear to be £20m better off this morning having just sold a right back to Barcelona. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Surfer

[seanthecanary 168]

5 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

We are in a position where we apparently have to sell our young players anyway or so i keep being told on here because there is no point in keeping any of them who want to move or for whom we reecive an adequate bid. We were always going to be able to sell some of these players this summer if we needed to. We had that "safety blanket" that should have enabled (and indeed emboldened) us to supplement them with a bit more quality last season to try and take the opportunity to build a top flight team around them. Instead we will lose them all and have to start again. We should still be competitive in the champ and I get that it will give the club security to be cash rich but I can;t get exceited about that. 

Your comment also assumes that anyone we bought would have immediately been worthless on relegation whcih would not necessarily be the case.

I get your point that building a team around of talented young players would be ideal.  However, if we had a really good season in the PL last year, those players would be even more in demand than they are now and we still would have potentially lost them all, just for more money. 

[TIL 1010 4,722]

9 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

I get your point that building a team around of talented young players would be ideal.  However, if we had a really good season in the PL last year, those players would be even more in demand than they are now and we still would have potentially lost them all, just for more money. 

if we had stayed in the PL would Buendia and Cantwell have thrown their toys out of the pram ?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

39 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

if we had stayed in the PL would Buendia and Cantwell have thrown their toys out of the pram ?

There were no 'toys thrown' ,only 'tools downed '... do keep up.

[seanthecanary 168]

42 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

if we had stayed in the PL would Buendia and Cantwell have thrown their toys out of the pram ?

Let me answer your question with a question. If Cantwell is throwing his toys out of the pram as you say to join a newly promoted club, do you think he wouldn't do the same if we were in the PL but a team in Europe came calling?

Edited October 1, 2020 by seanthecanary