Everton supposedly about to bid for Godfrey

[Jim Smith 2,317]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

Yes.

That is our place in the food chain, you can't keep players against their will anymore and in any case it is not fair to stand in the way of young men doubling their money, extending contract length and playing at the highest level.

I suspect the Gibson was bought as Godfrey's replacement in any case.

The bigger question is in CovidWorld where that leaves the club. Will the cash just keep it afloat, or could it be splurged on other EFL's fire sales?

 

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

Yes.

That is our place in the food chain, you can't keep players against their will anymore and in any case it is not fair to stand in the way of young men doubling their money, extending contract length and playing at the highest level.

I suspect the Gibson was bought as Godfrey's replacement in any case.

The bigger question is in CovidWorld where that leaves the club. Will the cash just keep it afloat, or could it be splurged on other EFL's fire sales?

Then it just makes our attitude and approach last season even more of an utter disgrace. The model is frankly a crock of sh*t if you have to accept losing all of your talented players after relegation. No way are we going back up “stronger.”

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Gibson has not played 1st team football since January 2019 so a question mark over his fitness surely ?

Hanley injury prone.

Klose injury prone.

I look forward to seeing Tettey at CB at some stage of the season if you think that will see us through 46 games.

Gibson claims to have kept himself fit and ready. Not his fault his manager was not selecting him. 

Hanley and Klose are injury prone and it does bother me, I will admit. But we have access to the domestic loan window beyond the regular window closing and by the time that closes, January seven weeks away? 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

3 hours ago, City 2nd said:

Absolutely no chance. NCFC will let him and all the others go.  With the club talking two weeks ago of a 12m shortfall without crowds, that figure will grow and grow with it now being suggested no crowds this season. We are a self funding club, and there is probably little option but to sell assets as quickly as they can to cover losses and wages over the coming months.

 

3 hours ago, City 2nd said:

Absolutely no chance. NCFC will let him and all the others go.  With the club talking two weeks ago of a 12m shortfall without crowds, that figure will grow and grow with it now being suggested no crowds this season. We are a self funding club, and there is probably little option but to sell assets as quickly as they can to cover losses and wages over the coming months.

Not true. We needed to sell one player to cover the shortfall. We did that with Lewis. No crowds this season probably necessitates one more major sale. Beyond that we should not need to sell. 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

 

Not true. We needed to sell one player to cover the shortfall. We did that with Lewis. No crowds this season probably necessitates one more major sale. Beyond that we should not need to sell. 

personally still don't see us needing to sell at all if the right bids don't come. Different story next summer if we don't go up and this palava is still going on

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

14 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

It's not about whether or not another defender could do a job defensively, it's about the inherent value in a defender who does more than just defend, something which is a premium and carries far more value in the PL than it does in the champs.

Also to clarify, Gibson cost 15 million not 9, and all three of the defenders you've listed are just that - defenders, they aren't ball playing defenders with the ability to move comfortably with the ball into midfield.

Take the comparison between Rio and Vidic, both great defenders, and an excellent pairing, but it was Rio that looked to play the ball from defence, it was Rio that took the ball out of defence, and it was Rio that cost Man Utd 30+ million compared to Vidic costing 7 million.

You ALWAYS pay a premium for homegrown talent, you ALWAYS pay a premium for a defender that can do more than just defend, you ALWAYS pay a premium with a young player with proven potential, and Godfrey hits all three of those factors easily, as well as being able to play in midfield if wanted/required.

He may not have huge experience so far, but experience will be earned, and he will continue to develop as a player over the next 5-10 years, even more so if playing alongside stronger teammates than he currently is.

Finally, I stand by my opinion that Godfrey is a better player than Stones who has clearly shown at Man City that even in a side of world class players, he's distinctly average and can't hold down a first team place which is why they continue to bring in central defenders like they did Laporte, and even a 19 year old Garcia is preferred to him. He's also continually failed to impress on International duty as well.

Adam Webster isn't a ball playing defender?! 

Pull the other one. 

You do always pay a premium for homegrown talent, you absolutely pay a premium for young, potentially talented players too. £25m represents a player with those premiums added on in Godfrey's situation. 

Godfrey is not a better player than John Stones. If both were sold tomorrow, John Stones would get a far better move on a far bigger contract to a far bigger club than Godfrey, that's because of experience. He's a much better player. If he weren't we'd have queues of clubs lining up for Godfrey, not reading how Fulham (FULHAM!) have decided he's not right for them. 

Let's get back to planet earth. Godfrey is a good player. One of the best young defenders we've seen at this club. He's not an exceptional talent that would tempt a top six club to part with £50m. He's just not. It's not even debatable. £25m, up front, represents comfortably the second biggest fee paid for a Championship defender (behind £40m for Nathan Ake) and would be a very good deal for the club. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Terminally Yellow

[HazzaJet 252]

We need to keep as much of our talent as possible as in my opinion promotion is almost essential this season. We’ve already lost LB Lewis and as others have said, I do think he was our least talented jewel. Quintilla has come in on loan to replace him this season and is already looking promising but to sign him on a permanent deal we have to go straight back up, although I think it’s only supposed to be for about £2.5m. The only other LB we have is McCallum, who is yet to play above League One level but gone back out on loan to Coventry to try and get some Championship experience. Godfrey is our only non injury prone CB, Gibson has come in on loan from Burnley although yet to play but again to sign him on a permanent deal we have to get promoted.

It’s just I feel if we don’t bounce straight back this season, we’re going to struggle for the next few seasons and so we really need to keep Godfrey and Aarons or our defence will only get worse. Preferably Buendia too as he is very good at creating chances and in our last season in the Championship did very well in both scoring and assisting goals.

At least the international transfer window closes at the end of this week but I do agree that the domestic window not closing until after the international break is a disgrace. At the moment I’m regularly finding myself under pressure because of the fear of us losing key players

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 hours ago, Haus said:

where are all these clubs getting all this money from?

Most transfer fees are spread over the length of the contract, so if Everton pay £20m for Godfrey and give him a 5 year contract the offer would likely actually be £4m a year for 5 years.

Edited September 29, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Sell him, spend £8m Luke Woolfendeen - better in the air! 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

You couldn’t really complain if Godfrey went to Everton (at the right price) - you’d not have been able to say the same about Fulham.

Yep, that's actually a step up in terms of size and status of club. 

And England managers never seen afraid to cap their players.

[Nuff Said 5,139]

2 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

It's not about whether or not another defender could do a job defensively, it's about the inherent value in a defender who does more than just defend, something which is a premium and carries far more value in the PL than it does in the champs.

Also to clarify, Gibson cost 15 million not 9, and all three of the defenders you've listed are just that - defenders, they aren't ball playing defenders with the ability to move comfortably with the ball into midfield.

Take the comparison between Rio and Vidic, both great defenders, and an excellent pairing, but it was Rio that looked to play the ball from defence, it was Rio that took the ball out of defence, and it was Rio that cost Man Utd 30+ million compared to Vidic costing 7 million.

You ALWAYS pay a premium for homegrown talent, you ALWAYS pay a premium for a defender that can do more than just defend, you ALWAYS pay a premium with a young player with proven potential, and Godfrey hits all three of those factors easily, as well as being able to play in midfield if wanted/required...

Godfrey can play in midfield you say? Interesting idea... 🧐

[Nuff Said 5,139]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The only sad part for me will be if the players going to clubs who could well swap places with us.

(Yes I know Leeds have won two games already. And? They thought we were the dog's whatsisnames this time last season)

Godfrey to Fulham would have been short sighted for our club as well as him.

 

Short-sighted for them perhaps, but we could buy him back at the end of the season when we go up and pass Fulham as they go down.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

36 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Sell him, spend £8m Luke Woolfendeen - better in the air! 

Someone help me I'm finding myself agreeing with TVB alot these days.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Adam Webster isn't a ball playing defender?! 

Pull the other one. 

You do always pay a premium for homegrown talent, you absolutely pay a premium for young, potentially talented players too. £25m represents a player with those premiums added on in Godfrey's situation. 

Godfrey is not a better player than John Stones. If both were sold tomorrow, John Stones would get a far better move on a far bigger contract to a far bigger club than Godfrey, that's because of experience. He's a much better player. If he weren't we'd have queues of clubs lining up for Godfrey, not reading how Fulham (FULHAM!) have decided he's not right for them. 

Let's get back to planet earth. Godfrey is a good player. One of the best young defenders we've seen at this club. He's not an exceptional talent that would tempt a top six club to part with £50m. He's just not. It's not even debatable. £25m, up front, represents comfortably the second biggest fee paid for a Championship defender (behind £40m for Nathan Ake) and would be a very good deal for the club. 

I'm genuinely surprised that you think this - don't you think it's rather more a case of Godfrey deciding that Fulham aren't right for him? 

 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

25 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I'm genuinely surprised that you think this - don't you think it's rather more a case of Godfrey deciding that Fulham aren't right for him? 

I believe if you want the player enough you agree a fee and try and persuade him why playing for your club is the next step after all. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

42 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I believe if you want the player enough you agree a fee and try and persuade him why playing for your club is the next step after all. 

Well we will never know for sure if Fulham made a genuine effort to sign Godfrey or if it was just media speculation. But Fulham are an absolute car crash of a club and if their interest was genuine it would be easy to see why Godfrey would turn them down. 

[Yellow and Green 334]

4 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Adam Webster isn't a ball playing defender?! 

Pull the other one. 

You do always pay a premium for homegrown talent, you absolutely pay a premium for young, potentially talented players too. £25m represents a player with those premiums added on in Godfrey's situation. 

Godfrey is not a better player than John Stones. If both were sold tomorrow, John Stones would get a far better move on a far bigger contract to a far bigger club than Godfrey, that's because of experience. He's a much better player. If he weren't we'd have queues of clubs lining up for Godfrey, not reading how Fulham (FULHAM!) have decided he's not right for them. 

Let's get back to planet earth. Godfrey is a good player. One of the best young defenders we've seen at this club. He's not an exceptional talent that would tempt a top six club to part with £50m. He's just not. It's not even debatable. £25m, up front, represents comfortably the second biggest fee paid for a Championship defender (behind £40m for Nathan Ake) and would be a very good deal for the club. 

I agree but you have to remember that Godfrey has only played a season and a half professionally at centre back, so he is still learning his position. He made mistakes last season, but you have to consider:

a) He was offered little protection from a poor midfield and full backs who were often caught halfway up the pitch.

b) He was our only recognised centre back for a quarter of last season. The rest of the time, he was next to someone who was coming back from an injury.

It is also worth considering that he is the only 'crown jewel' who plays down the middle. The others are given a slightly easier ride, playing down the wings/in the opposition half. Their mistakes are rarely as costly.

Whilst it is true for all of the crown jewels, it is most important for Godfrey to play regular first team football - preferable in a team with a solid defence. Everton, Wolves or Leicester would be perfect for him, assuming he gets game time.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

represents comfortably the second biggest fee paid for a Championship defender (behind £40m for Nathan Ake) and would be a very good deal for the club. 

And I wouldn't count Nathan Ake as a Championship defender... hasn't played a Championship game since he was 20 (on loan at Reading).

Had played 115 Premier League games since. 

Perhaps Godfrey would be worth £40m if he'd played that much Premier League football, but the fact is he hasn't. 

Plus about £10m+ of that Ake fee is probably down to him being left footed, a premium, teams who play out from the back prefer having one left footed centre back and there's not going to be a huge selection of those to choose from. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

13 minutes ago, Yellow and Green said:

I agree but you have to remember that Godfrey has only played a season and a half professionally at centre back, so he is still learning his position.

But there are no guarentees that he would go on to become the player that we hope, he could just as easily stand still.

And if he does stand still, and he's currently as good as he is going to get, then he isn't going to be worth £25m in another 18 months because he'd cease to be a 'prospect' or great hope and would very much just be seen as a slightly above average centre back.

This is what the club have to weigh up when deciding to cash in now or not. Yes it is possible that we could go back up, he could look a lot more accomplished next time in the Premier League with us and then go for Ake/Stones type money, but there's also the chance that we don't go back up and he doesn't particularly impress in the second tier, in which case the amount we can realise by selling him is only going to drastically fall.

I think we should take £25m as long as we're protected by a good sell on clause in case he does become a £50m player (e.g. 20% of profit would give us another £5m down the line).

A lot of people think he may have been a bit over hyped, and if correct he will be found out. 

Prospects can only remain prospects for so long (apart from Lingaard who has got away with people not noticing his age). Some of us remember when Francis "Fox In The Box" Jeffers went for huge money after a really good first couple of years in the sport, got an England cap as well. Retired on 52 career goals, a lot of those in the Championship. 

David Bentley another example, incredible prospect at Blackburn and labelled the new Beckham, 7 England caps, effectively burnt out and finished by 25.

Sometimes keeping a player is a big gamble. Godfrey is 23 in January, gets away with being called a prospect now but for how much longer? At what point does he just become another player with football moving on to the next exciting centre backs? 

At £25m I'd take the money and reinvest a decent slice of it.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Someone help me I'm finding myself agreeing with TVB alot these days.

I'm glad you've become more logical and rational 😜😆

[Yellow and Green 334]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

But there are no guarentees that he would go on to become the player that we hope, he could just as easily stand still.

And if he does stand still, and he's currently as good as he is going to get, then he isn't going to be worth £25m in another 18 months because he'd cease to be a 'prospect' or great hope and would very much just be seen as a slightly above average centre back.

This is what the club have to weigh up when deciding to cash in now or not. Yes it is possible that we could go back up, he could look a lot more accomplished next time in the Premier League with us and then go for Ake/Stones type money, but there's also the chance that we don't go back up and he doesn't particularly impress in the second tier, in which case the amount we can realise by selling him is only going to drastically fall.

I think we should take £25m as long as we're protected by a good sell on clause in case he does become a £50m player (e.g. 20% of profit would give us another £5m down the line).

A lot of people think he may have been a bit over hyped, and if correct he will be found out. 

Prospects can only remain prospects for so long (apart from Lingaard who has got away with people not noticing his age). Some of us remember when Francis "Fox In The Box" Jeffers went for huge money after a really good first couple of years in the sport, got an England cap as well. Retired on 52 career goals, a lot of those in the Championship. 

David Bentley another example, incredible prospect at Blackburn and labelled the new Beckham, 7 England caps, effectively burnt out and finished by 25.

Sometimes keeping a player is a big gamble. Godfrey is 23 in January, gets away with being called a prospect now but for how much longer? At what point does he just become another player with football moving on to the next exciting centre backs? 

At £25m I'd take the money and reinvest a decent slice of it.

It is indeed an 'if'. 

I believe he is good enough to be described as a Premier League quality centre back, and I don't think his value will depreciate unless he gets a serious injury, there are off-field problems or his performances drop over a long period of time. There may be a risk of 'standing still' if he goes to a club and doesn't get game time, which (selfishly) wouldn't be our problem, as we'd have cashed in the check by then!

He has all of the attributes to be a top centre back: he is quick, strong and he's comfortable with the ball at his feet. He now needs to develop that 'John Terry' side of his game - things that come with experience. Centre backs don't usually peak until they're around 28, so he's got time on his side - certainly more than 18 months.

 

Slightly off topic, but I listened to Jake Humphrey's podcast with Rio Ferdinand yesterday. A really good listen and it might change people's views on Ben having him as a mentor.

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

8 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

I agree but you have to remember that Godfrey has only played a season and a half professionally at centre back, so he is still learning his position. He made mistakes last season, but you have to consider:

a) He was offered little protection from a poor midfield and full backs who were often caught halfway up the pitch.

b) He was our only recognised centre back for a quarter of last season. The rest of the time, he was next to someone who was coming back from an injury.

It is also worth considering that he is the only 'crown jewel' who plays down the middle. The others are given a slightly easier ride, playing down the wings/in the opposition half. Their mistakes are rarely as costly.

Whilst it is true for all of the crown jewels, it is most important for Godfrey to play regular first team football - preferable in a team with a solid defence. Everton, Wolves or Leicester would be perfect for him, assuming he gets game time.

I'll add a c)  For roughly six weeks Godfrey was playing with a hernia injury - he wasn't training in the week and was only able to get through matchday with painkillers. Farke made it clear that Godfrey really shouldn't have been playing at all, but he had to as we didn't have any other fit centre backs available. Tells you a lot about Godfrey's attitude and mental strength. 

[BigFish 1,986]

15 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Then it just makes our attitude and approach last season even more of an utter disgrace. The model is frankly a crock of sh*t if you have to accept losing all of your talented players after relegation. No way are we going back up “stronger.”

It makes our approach more understandable, rather than a disgrace. How many players were we short of a team that could survive in the Prem? We could have spent £80-£100 million and still gone down, in which case the club would be now be facing oblivion. Of course we could have survived, but the club would have a second year of financial losses to cope with and the squad would be one year older, so more player purchases required, more losses. If the "crown jewels" kicked on they would want to move on anyway. Read the Dortmund article referenced in another post if you want to see the project's method implemented well.

[BigFish 1,986]

10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

But there are no guarentees that he would go on to become the player that we hope, he could just as easily stand still.

And if he does stand still, and he's currently as good as he is going to get, then he isn't going to be worth £25m in another 18 months because he'd cease to be a 'prospect' or great hope and would very much just be seen as a slightly above average centre back.

This is what the club have to weigh up when deciding to cash in now or not. Yes it is possible that we could go back up, he could look a lot more accomplished next time in the Premier League with us and then go for Ake/Stones type money, but there's also the chance that we don't go back up and he doesn't particularly impress in the second tier, in which case the amount we can realise by selling him is only going to drastically fall.

I think we should take £25m as long as we're protected by a good sell on clause in case he does become a £50m player (e.g. 20% of profit would give us another £5m down the line).

A lot of people think he may have been a bit over hyped, and if correct he will be found out. 

Prospects can only remain prospects for so long (apart from Lingaard who has got away with people not noticing his age). Some of us remember when Francis "Fox In The Box" Jeffers went for huge money after a really good first couple of years in the sport, got an England cap as well. Retired on 52 career goals, a lot of those in the Championship. 

David Bentley another example, incredible prospect at Blackburn and labelled the new Beckham, 7 England caps, effectively burnt out and finished by 25.

Sometimes keeping a player is a big gamble. Godfrey is 23 in January, gets away with being called a prospect now but for how much longer? At what point does he just become another player with football moving on to the next exciting centre backs? 

At £25m I'd take the money and reinvest a decent slice of it.

Worringly, I too find myself thinking @TeemuVanBasten is making sense. Is it the start of a cult?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I really don't accept that Gibson isn't fit. If one of the other two had got injured or sent off in the first minute he would have had to have played. As much as match fitness is a physical thing, many can overcome deficiencies with their attitude. Vardy trains on everything the experts say he shouldn't. It isn't one size fits all.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

On 30/09/2020 at 12:22, BigFish said:

Worringly, I too find myself thinking @TeemuVanBasten is making sense. Is it the start of a cult?

Bow down to the new evil Supreme Overlord!

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[sgncfc 1,227]

20 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

I think Godfrey is a Excellent Buy for most PL clubs

pair him with a Good CB and top coaching i think he will go all the way 

Pace and good on the ball and  english  a snip at anything round 20 million 

If we get £20m plus for Godfrey it will be the best deal this club has ever done - slightly shading the £12m we got for Murphy. Pair him with a good centre back and the whole world will see he isn't one.....

Anyway, I thought we were supposed to have "top coaching"?

[Thirsty Lizard 3,164]

29 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

If we get £20m plus for Godfrey it will be the best deal this club has ever done - slightly shading the £12m we got for Murphy. Pair him with a good centre back and the whole world will see he isn't one.....

Anyway, I thought we were supposed to have "top coaching"?

We do - that's why a 17 year old who we brought from York City for an initial fee of £30,000 went on to Captain England U-21s a few years later. (But your eyes are shut and you refuse to see it). 

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

Rumour is that Everton only want Godfrey on loan

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/everton-only-interested-in-loan-for-godfrey-1-6862620

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

5 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

Rumour is that Everton only want Godfrey on loan

https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/everton-only-interested-in-loan-for-godfrey-1-6862620

A definite non starter for me.

[Branston Pickle 3,657]

Hmm - as with the Barca thing.  It does seem interesting that there’s plenty of £ swishing around to buy players when it suits, just not for our players...