Gradually Falling Out Of Love With The Game

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, FenwayFrank said:

I would suggest going to watch some local football. I started watching Wroxham last season and will be there for their top of the table clash with Kirkley and Pakefield tonight. It’s  football without all the nonsense and you can have a beer at the side of the pitch if you want ! After tonight’s game I would have been to four games and it comes to just under £30. 

Me and my mates are considering doing a few Wroxham games. How does it work with the bar with the whole no bar service and customers needed to be seating, is there some exemption for football? What do they have on tap?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 hours ago, city4eva said:

Sums up pretty much how I feel.  That handball against Spurs..WTF

Although ironically we probably would have had 2 penalties and would possibly have beaten Bournemouth had we had VAR been in use! Its deeply ironic and a form of technology that I thought would help the smaller clubs such as us, managed to screw us over last season and now the lack of it has hindered us in the first part of this season.

That said, I'd still rather not have it that have the endless delays and loss of spontaneous joy when a goal is scored that VAR has brought about. 

The problem, as alluded to above, is that the tail is wagging the dog. Instead of learning from other sports where its been succesfully implemented (in the case of sports like rugby with it having got too domineering and then been reigned in) they allowed the jobsworth referees to have control of it and are letting VAR shape the game rather than the other way round. A simple referral system for refs to use when not 100% sure about an on field decision is all it should have been.

Football is at a dangerous crossroads I think. Fans attending is all about habit. Over the course of the next year I think many fans will fall out of the habit. Pwrhaps if crwods had been back in next week then the break would have been short enough to create pent up desperation to go but by the time we reach next August i think a lot of fans may have found other things to do with their saturdays and whilst most will return, quite a few may not do.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I do think that there can be a tendency to look back with rose-tinted spectacles. Pre-Sky, grounds were crammed, dirty, people urinating, throwing coins etc, it was really a domain for men only. The game is much safer now and far more of a family affair, grounds are better, and the sport itself has improved in terms of the athleticism and skill level. The money poured into the game accounts for much of that. 

On the other hand, there is the feeling that the game is 'sanitised' to a degree. Technology appears not to have helped enforce the rules but has changed the rules to fit around it. There's also the fact that the balance of the game has swung far in the direction of big, rich clubs. It is not as fair a contest as it once was. 

I suppose that's what you get with change. Some good, some not so good. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

2 hours ago, duke63 said:

A financial crash in football would be the best thing that could happen, as long as it effects the Liverpools, Man Utds as well.

Reading of players earning £300k + per week whilst fans cannot go to matches and smaller clubs being on the brink of extinction is quite galling.

 

The sad thing is that it will be those clubs who are ring fenced and the other smaller clubs who will fall by the wayside. 

I probably get more enjoyment out of coaching my son's under 8's team of a weekend than I do out of watching Norwich at the moment.

[ricardo 7,347]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The sad thing is that it will be those clubs who are ring fenced and the other smaller clubs who will fall by the wayside. 

I probably get more enjoyment out of coaching my son's under 8's team of a weekend than I do out of watching Norwich at the moment.

I have to agree with that. Watching my great grandson, in the Under 13's on a Sunday morning has been a much more pleasurable experience than anything on offer from the PL.

[ROBFLECK 132]

35 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Sunday evening was the least bothered I'd felt about a Norwich defeat in years and years.

Same here

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

27 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I do think that there can be a tendency to look back with rose-tinted spectacles. Pre-Sky, grounds were crammed, dirty, people urinating, throwing coins etc, it was really a domain for men only. The game is much safer now and far more of a family affair, grounds are better, and the sport itself has improved in terms of the athleticism and skill level. The money poured into the game accounts for much of that. 

On the other hand, there is the feeling that the game is 'sanitised' to a degree. Technology appears not to have helped enforce the rules but has changed the rules to fit around it. There's also the fact that the balance of the game has swung far in the direction of big, rich clubs. It is not as fair a contest as it once was. 

I suppose that's what you get with change. Some good, some not so good. 

Yes. I was going to post something very similar. I think one reason for the current disenchantment is that fans had got used to wall to wall TV coverage, and were fine with that, because they generally were still enamoured of the game as a whole, even if their club wasn't doing well at any particular time. 

But now with the lack of spectators making matches look like something played out at Sloughbottom or Eaton Park the still incessant TV coverage becomes a grating bore. Suddenly the whole thing looks absurd.

[hertfordyellow 460]

I would say that this club has said no to the madhouse that is today's football and tried to do it a different way. Invest in academy, invest in coaching, invest in scouting, invest in a modern football management hierarchy. We aren't joining the merry-go-round of throwing 15 million at a player who has 40 starts in the Portugese league or paying 75k to a 30 year old who played for a big club once. 

I don't care as much and the original poster speaks the truth, but my interest in Norwich would be so much less if we weren't trying to do it the organic way. I still think you need to be backed heavily to be a consistent Premiership team, but i'm OK that we don't have rich business investors looking for an 'opportunity' and a status symbol.

Those saying Delia out, Sheikh in are probably realists if the goal is to be a Premiership team come what may. I'm happier to see us buck this ludicrous trend even if we stay a yo-yo club. 

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

An excellent and important topic.

Will you all feel the same after 2 years of uninspiring grind in the Championship?
 

Football had to change from what it was: racist, homophobic, sexist, downtrodden, low-rent, unsafe, rough, bigoted and dominated by aggressive men. 

Clubs were owned patriarchally, feudally and deferentially. 

Agents exist because clubs -let’s be controversial and include Cantwell for relevance - will pay as little as they can get away with especially in the case of Home-grown players. They would squeeze and abuse often unintelligent footballers.

None of this is to decry or even disagree with much of what is written here - I do agree with it - though Faustian bargains are what they are. 

Football’s past was pretty poor commercially, in terms of safety and set up. Flaws in VAR can be adjusted reasonably easily. 

One - ironic - solution would be to pay referees vastly more and have a conveyor-belt programme of keeping the (say) James Milners in the game as élite referees. Players always want to stay around the game. It would just need a little culture change and a persuasive programme.

Couple this with a clever ‘cricket-style’ VAR (Hawkeye) that retains the human integrity and removes (only) the egregious errors. 

Parma 

[Crabbycanary3 994]

With what is currently happening with football (Clubs in massive doo doo and potentially going out of business) , where will football be in 10 years (or sooner) time? Covid has exposed (but is not the reason) how fragile football is. Will we be left with a European/UK super type (ring fenced) League and the rest of the teams (us?) be in a sterile environment watching our teams going through the motions, almost a past time as opposed to a thriving sport?

I also appreciate that a lot of these Clubs that are in trouble could have been managed far better (I agree with what Hertford has said above, about our Club btw) but it all stems from the top and the dream to get there, so business acumen, sometimes, goes out of the window, and there are plenty of examples of Clubs who have overstretched themselves, and now find them in a nigh on impossible scenario where they may never get back to their glory days at the Top Table..

The Premier League are only looking up, and not over their shoulder and the juggernaut that is the Premier League is out of control and no one is brave enough to do anything about it. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Crabbycanary3

[Rock The Boat 1,325]

1 hour ago, Jerrykerry said:

If there was no money the quality would be lower and you'd be bored to death. 

What a bunch of whining old gits.

You simply cannot appreciate what you have and could lose. 

Used to watch football before Premier League money arrived and it was far from boring. On the contrary, football used to be full of real characters whom it was fun to watch. Today, players and coaches are too wary to step out of line because the financial consequences are too high.  Back in the day it was much more fun and free-wheeling than the dull football of over-complicated tactics and importance of statistics that we have today. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Rock The Boat

[crispeduk 282]

I gave up football outside Wembley in 1973. To paraphrase George Best it was the worst 20 minutes of my life. Still can't shake it off even in the latest sh*tstorms, although I admit it's weakening. Btw the non-League experience, even in these dark times, remains good, although Covid safety is unsurprisingly varied - but if it's not safe enough, just walk away, it's not cost much.

[Crabbycanary3 994]

It's been wearing  thin for a long while as pundits/Managers/Players have been hyping up the PL to keep it 'relevant' and at the forefront of people's minds (and money) It's pathetic and embarrassing at times, but others get sucked into it, and it's morally strained.

When I harp back to the pre Prem days, I am not talking about hooligans, urinating etc. Society has largely moved on from that, I was talking about other facets of those days. Football does not have to go through a (potentially fatal) transition from those days to thrive. There is plenty good about those days. 

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

2 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Me and my mates are considering doing a few Wroxham games. How does it work with the bar with the whole no bar service and customers needed to be seating, is there some exemption for football? What do they have on tap?

I haven’t been in the clubhouse since the rules have changed, last time I went in it was a socially distanced queue and you would stop just short of the bar, just so you could reach out to pay and get a drink. I can’t remember the drinks that are on tap but there are plenty of options if you want to include bottles and they’re reasonably priced too, better than Carrow road anyway ! If you do come along I would get tickets in advance just to make sure you get in ok, go on the clubs twitter and you can check out the fixtures etc. Don’t forget you get Holty at centre half, Lappin in midfield and Chris Sutton and Hucks normally are there to watch their sons play.

[Doomcaster 10]

My 1970 onwards assoc with NCFC - got to admit - that time is getting close to calling it a day 

Webber & Farke - the 3 year plan is just just not working

[FenwayFrank 2,456]

15 minutes ago, Doomcaster said:

My 1970 onwards assoc with NCFC - got to admit - that time is getting close to calling it a day

Me too, this will probably be my last season as a ST holder

[sgncfc 1,221]

3 hours ago, Jerrykerry said:

If there was no money the quality would be lower and you'd be bored to death. 

What a bunch of whining old gits.

You simply cannot appreciate what you have and could lose. 

Or perhaps we all do appreciate what we have already lost. What we have now isn't as good as what we once had - I think that's the point of the post. 

Football as a product is of much higher quality than it was, but it's less enjoyable for many of us. Rather than just telling us we are wrong, tell us why you think that has happened.

[Grumpy 122]

As a life long supporter of City since the middle 50s my support and enthusiasm for them will never falter.As someone said earlier the last two seasons have been the most enjoyable and sadly the worst that I can recall.

Sadly for me, football in general has lost its appeal and with the exception of City's televised matches I find it very hard to enjoy watching the majority of televised games.

Var and the changes/interpretation of the laws of the game has done more harm than good,the offside and handball laws are two of the most important  in the game.How could they get it so wrong.But for me the overiding factor for my disillusionment is the cheating and bad sportsmanship that players and coaches have resorted to. 

[City fan 78]

Greed has made me less interested in football. We still have the multi million pound transfers in the premiership. One premiership club paid a loan fee of 5.8 million for the season, with a 45 million fee next season to make it a signing. 

 

If each premiership club gave 4 million, that's 80 million, which would go a long way of helping other clubs in the lower leagues. 

On today's EDP, the Kings Lynn chairman gave a grim interview of the reality clubs like Lynn are in. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

6 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Although ironically we probably would have had 2 penalties and would possibly have beaten Bournemouth had we had VAR been in use! Its deeply ironic and a form of technology that I thought would help the smaller clubs such as us, managed to screw us over last season and now the lack of it has hindered us in the first part of this season.

That said, I'd still rather not have it that have the endless delays and loss of spontaneous joy when a goal is scored that VAR has brought about. 

The problem, as alluded to above, is that the tail is wagging the dog. Instead of learning from other sports where its been succesfully implemented (in the case of sports like rugby with it having got too domineering and then been reigned in) they allowed the jobsworth referees to have control of it and are letting VAR shape the game rather than the other way round. A simple referral system for refs to use when not 100% sure about an on field decision is all it should have been.

Football is at a dangerous crossroads I think. Fans attending is all about habit. Over the course of the next year I think many fans will fall out of the habit. Pwrhaps if crwods had been back in next week then the break would have been short enough to create pent up desperation to go but by the time we reach next August i think a lot of fans may have found other things to do with their saturdays and whilst most will return, quite a few may not do.

Expanding the stadium is off the agenda then Jimbo. Bullet well dodged?

[duke63 541]

6 hours ago, Jerrykerry said:

If there was no money the quality would be lower and you'd be bored to death. 

What a bunch of whining old gits.

You simply cannot appreciate what you have and could lose. 

Football in an entertainment business. 
Lower  quality football does not necessarily mean lower quality entertainment. 
 

We have had some great entertainment in recent years - the 3 Lambert years and Farke’s promotion year especially but none were at the very top end of the Premier League.  
 

The fact that no side can compete at the top of the Premier League without very serious financial backing doesn’t make for great sport. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

19 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Expanding the stadium is off the agenda then Jimbo. Bullet well dodged?

On the flipside though would have been a good time to do it given no fans in the stadium for a year! Perhaps if we do sell all 5 of our crown jewells then they will do it early next year!

[nutty nigel 7,509]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

On the flipside though would have been a good time to do it given no fans in the stadium for a year! Perhaps if we do sell all 5 of our crown jewells then they will do it early next year!

If you're right and quite a few of our current season ticket holders don't renew surely it would be pointless to spend money on more seats to be left empty.

 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,410]

Great discussion. All of this resonates with me

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

An excellent and important topic.

Will you all feel the same after 2 years of uninspiring grind in the Championship?
 

Football had to change from what it was: racist, homophobic, sexist, downtrodden, low-rent, unsafe, rough, bigoted and dominated by aggressive men. 

Clubs were owned patriarchally, feudally and deferentially. 

Agents exist because clubs -let’s be controversial and include Cantwell for relevance - will pay as little as they can get away with especially in the case of Home-grown players. They would squeeze and abuse often unintelligent footballers.

None of this is to decry or even disagree with much of what is written here - I do agree with it - though Faustian bargains are what they are. 

Football’s past was pretty poor commercially, in terms of safety and set up. Flaws in VAR can be adjusted reasonably easily. 

One - ironic - solution would be to pay referees vastly more and have a conveyor-belt programme of keeping the (say) James Milners in the game as élite referees. Players always want to stay around the game. It would just need a little culture change and a persuasive programme.

Couple this with a clever ‘cricket-style’ VAR (Hawkeye) that retains the human integrity and removes (only) the egregious errors. 

Parma 

And yet Parma, all us young lads wanted to be footballers playing for City.

As far as grounds went they were poor but we got what we paid for.

Footballers understood the pecking order especially after the abolition of the maximum wage. The wages to be earned were no different between clubs like Manure to WBA so you didn't have to leave and certainly didn't need an adviser or agent. In fact there was an almost egalitarian feel to each division.

Club chairman were oligarchal in the way they ran the clubs but were saying this is my product and if you want it here it is.

Football was no different from the factory floor and so life. All the isms you accuse it of existed around so many tea tables in Britain.

Yes, we have moved on for the better in so many areas and we never want to go back. But progress doesn't always mean better of course. So while as a printer, of course earning more than many,  in 1972 I was earning half of what Graham Paddon was. Today, it would a twenty fifth.

While printing has improved with technology, at the expense of so many well paid jobs, I don't believe football has merited its increase in reward. It has been handed it on a velvet cushion of course. And Alan Sugar, the Tottenham Chairman at the time, begged club owners at the time not to let the players get their hands on the money. Put it to use in better grounds, youth academies and community support so as to not start the inflationary process we have now.

My club excites me still but the rest do not and the creation of the elite has led to the elite hijacking the game.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

Good post from the OP.

The virus and the humiliation of last season seems to have hit everyone for six. It’s not much fun watching games in empty grounds. Footballers need crowds and atmosphere. Fans need to be able to let their hair down like they used to be able to do.

I don’t remember feeling quite so flat as this about the club. We need a united team. If reports are to be believed then Cantwell and Buendia are a pair of clowns causing disruption we wouldn’t need at the best of times.

Perhaps the most telling thing is that even the most ardent happy clappers on here seem to have drowned in a sea of apathy judging by the near deafening silence on the season so far.

Things must be bad.....

[TIL 1010 4,722]

10 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

 

Perhaps the most telling thing is that even the most ardent happy clappers on here seem to have drowned in a sea of apathy judging by the near deafening silence on the season so far.

Things must be bad.....

I hope you have put your tin hat on Graham ? 😜

[nutty nigel 7,509]

6 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Good post from the OP.

The virus and the humiliation of last season seems to have hit everyone for six. It’s not much fun watching games in empty grounds. Footballers need crowds and atmosphere. Fans need to be able to let their hair down like they used to be able to do.

I don’t remember feeling quite so flat as this about the club. We need a united team. If reports are to be believed then Cantwell and Buendia are a pair of clowns causing disruption we wouldn’t need at the best of times.

Perhaps the most telling thing is that even the most ardent happy clappers on here seem to have drowned in a sea of apathy judging by the near deafening silence on the season so far.

Things must be bad.....

I think the happy clappers are frustrated not to get the chance to support their team. I didn't think it could get worse than last seasons frustrations of not being able to celebrate goals for up to 5 minutes. But not being able to go at all is horrendous.

My last game was Leicester. Everything that's happened since is far removed from anything I've ever known in 53 years support. 

I thought we'd be getting back to games by now but clearly we are far from that. So all that's left is a soulless stream and wall to wall misery on here. Without the reality of match day, and that connection between us and our club, there's no joy to be had.

It's not apathy by any means. Just self preservation and a determination to keep the joy of 53 years. How do you buy into the misery so easily Smiffy? All those years and still no joy in your heart...

💛⚽💚

 

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

13 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I hope you have put your tin hat on Graham ? 😜

First catch didn’t take long, eh Tilly ? 😉

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

Keelan, you are wasting your time trying to paint me into a corner or a side. I have already stated that I agree with the spirit of much the Sentiments lamenting the extreme capitalism that football has become.

Society has become like that however. 

Football only reflects that which echoes around it. Individualistic survival of the lucky, least moral, best connected, most inherited or - perhaps - most talented. 

As Gorbachev might conceivably say ‘The failure of Communism does not - de-facto - equate to the success of Capitalism’.

I abhor all forms of discrimination. I am too autistic, too empirical, too business-like to care for such things.

However - in times gone by - a single wage covered the necessary costs of family provision. Then the workforce supply almost doubled - the huge influx of female labour into the market - the market assumed the  additional supply and simply diluted the returns. Now two adults are required to provide the necessary funds to run an average household. 

Nothing is gained economically for most individuals. Indeed much is lost socially. We are forced to pay much of our earnings to hire someone to look after our own children (as we did ourselves before) whilst we all earn - de-facto-  half as much as before. 

This may well be poor social economics for many, though in no way does it defend a patriarchal society, In no way does it suggest that women should not work, should not do whatever they wish.

It is unfettered capitalism red in tooth and claw. Scarcity (say football ability) earns lavish  rewards, where there is surplus its value is diminished: 

Denying it is just as foolish as embracing it without question. 

Parma