Do they both start against Derby?

[birchfest 397]

Im curious to gauge what people think the strategy is here, was Farke teaching them a lesson and to get them focused and fired up? Are they about to be sold? Are they now out of the picture until after the window closes and they have to play to get momentum for a move in january? So do you think both Cantwell and Buendia will be back into the side at the weekend?

 

A 'Yes' or 'No' reply please, and then after any reasoning if you want to go into it. Im going to be bold (and hopeful) with a YES. 

Edited September 28, 2020 by birchfest

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

If they’re here, one of them will start.

[mannings bandy legs 385]

3 minutes ago, birchfest said:

Im curious to gauge what people think the strategy is here, was Farke teaching them a lesson and to get them focused and fired up? Are they about to be sold? Are they now out of the picture until after the window closes and they have to play to get momentum for a move in january? So do you think both Cantwell and Buendia will be back into the side at the weekend?

 

A 'Yes' or 'No' reply please, and then after any reasoning if you want to go into it. Im going to be bold (and hopeful) with a YES. 

Cantwell will be gone,thankfully. Hopefully Buendia will grow up !!

[Hairy Canary 668]

No

The only way I can see either starting is if they knuckle down and show DF that they want to win their places back during training this week. I can't see that happening unfortunately as the post match statements are going to need some pride swallowing to get over. We'll see if either are man enough to do that.

 

[Making Plans 936]

No, because neither want to be here anymore and on that basis Farke won't play them.

[Old Shuck 183]

Yes.

Does Farke stick with his principles or pick a side that gives us the best opportunity of winning the game?

The latter every time. But then he will think he's still doing that, regardless of who he drops.

There have been players who have been famous for being bad trainers. Years ago it was Le Tissier. Didn't bother and was overweight. Still played. For us, Crook wasn't the best. He'd wear the yellow shirt with 'Donkey' written on it and have his Mars bar and Cola. Still played. And so on.

I suspect both are now goners as many do. And we're being softened up for their departures. Looks like Martin is going to have to step up to the mark.

 

 

 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

No, don’t think both will start. Maybe one. But having watched the Farke interview, it’s very reminiscent of what he’s done in the past whereby he’s then reinstated a player (depending on said players response) after he’s been sin binned. If he’s been seriously disrespected then we won’t be seeing them again (think Oliveira), if not then there’s definitely a way back. He’s done it with Emi before and got a great response. So my opinion has changed a little from yesterday. I think Emi *may* stay (though I’m still doubtful), but regarding Todd, my gut feeling is that he will join Leeds or Newcastle, though I was told by a very good source he would be going to Liverpool. I think we may see one of the two against Derby though. 

Btw, despite Emi covering his back saying he’d fight for the City cause, I did suspect something was off a couple of weeks back when he posted on his Instagram about football that weekend, and seemed much more interested in Atletico’s win rather than our own opening day 3 points. You may think that’s reading too much into it, but I wouldn’t say so given that Emi has always in the past been very vocal on social media when we’ve got the 3 points, he’s almost sounded like the next player to love our club ala Huckerby. But tellingly, he didn’t even give it a mention whatsoever and as I said on here at the time, I thought this was quite out of character and a big hint, so in hindsight, I now think my suspicions in this instance were correct.

 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

19 minutes ago, Old Shuck said:

Yes.

Does Farke stick with his principles or pick a side that gives us the best opportunity of winning the game?

The latter every time. But then he will think he's still doing that, regardless of who he drops.

There have been players who have been famous for being bad trainers. Years ago it was Le Tissier. Didn't bother and was overweight. Still played. For us, Crook wasn't the best. He'd wear the yellow shirt with 'Donkey' written on it and have his Mars bar and Cola. Still played. And so on.

I suspect both are now goners as many do. And we're being softened up for their departures. Looks like Martin is going to have to step up to the mark.

 

 

 

There’s being a ‘bad trainer’ but being committed to the club, and then actually downing tools completely (if reports are to be believed).

With respect, they are not one and the same at all.

[Old Shuck 183]

1 minute ago, Alex Moss said:

There’s being a ‘bad trainer’ but being committed to the club, and then actually downing tools completely (if reports are to be believed).

With respect, they are not one and the same at all.

Agree. But would like to think they'd be professional enough to play to the best of their abililities if selected. Max has. Or is he so much more mature and has better people around him? The football community is a close knit one and if a coach like Bielsa is aware that a players attitude isn't right, even at another club, then he isn't going to want him at his. 

[ec-p 90]

I would be surprised if we see Cantwell play in a City shirt again. If Leeds really have made a concrete offer, we’ll negotiate some add ons and he’ll be off. 

Emi, think we’ll hang onto him till Jan and expect him to be on bench next game.

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Yes. One will start IMO - I hope. I'm still wishing that one of them will still be here come the end of the window!

I think they both have the personalities to bounce back positively from Farke's comments, perhaps Emi slightly more so.

Farke also says that no offers have been received so it's almost certain that both will still be at the club by the next game.

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

I think it totally depends on the players.  It does seem possible that one or both won’t be here, but if they are and have knuckled down then there’s always a way back (think Wes).

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

Depends if they take the message on board and knuckle down in training. There is alleged interest in Todd from Leeds, not sure there are any alleged offers for Emi. On that basis, and if he responds positively to the statement from DF then I think Emi will be playing, the attack on Todd was much more concerted so I have a feeling that he will be off to another club.........

[curious yellow 184]

According to Nick Ma****er, the bid from Leeds has been made, 15 million - we want add-ons and personal terms to be agreed. 

We really should get these deals done quickly so we have time to bring in a replacement. 

[TheGunnShow 5,925]

55 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Depends if they take the message on board and knuckle down in training. There is alleged interest in Todd from Leeds, not sure there are any alleged offers for Emi. On that basis, and if he responds positively to the statement from DF then I think Emi will be playing, the attack on Todd was much more concerted so I have a feeling that he will be off to another club.........

Exactly this. This is a question of attitude and application. Show that, and you're in. Don't show it, and you're not.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Yes. No way they don't put in effort. If they insist on not performing then Mr Diminutive Buendia and Mr Overrated Cantwell should be told no wages.

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

49 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

According to Nick Ma****er, the bid from Leeds has been made, 15 million - we want add-ons and personal terms to be agreed. 

We really should get these deals done quickly so we have time to bring in a replacement. 

That’s shocking if true, seems a petulant Individual but surely worth more than Lewis. 

[Jerrykerry 223]

No. 

Both will be on the bench if they come back into the fold, or will be in the reserves if they don't. 

No going back for either party now. 

Personally I hope they both get sold and one decent attacking midfielder brought in. 

[Hardhouse44 261]

There is no excuse for poor training and aptitude. However the clubs ambitions don’t meet mine and many other fans expectations and I would very much doubt they meet the expectations of the 2 players in question. 
 

they are by far our most prized assets. Far exceeding the defenders who people rate so highly yet of continue to be out of position and ineffective week in week out. 
 

Cantwell scored goals from midfield in the premiership (in a very poor team) that’s a very prized resource in the current game. Emi created chances for goals in the premiership in that same poor team. Another highly desirable quality. How we could have done with either yesterday instead of throwing on striker after striker with no quality supply line. More of Farkes great wisdom shown there! 
 

They are winners and winners want to progress. Unfortunately the club and a large section of the supporters are to frightened to allow it to happen. We are tied down by the failures of our past. Scared to pursue progress because of poor decisions people made in recruitment in the past. 
 

They will go and we will sit on the money all bar a small token gesture.  
 

“There is no project” 

[Upo 91]

48 minutes ago, birchfest said:

Im curious to gauge what people think the strategy is here, ...

A 'Yes' or 'No' reply please, and then after any reasoning if you want to go into it. Im going to be bold (and hopeful) with a YES. 

 

Quote

Was Farke teaching them a lesson and to get them focused and fired up?

Yes. Can't answer no to that without terrible implications:

'Teaching a lesson' is informal "punishment" with good intentions, if followed by a pat on the back and a chance to prove you learned your lesson.

If it's not followed by a pat on the back and a fair chance, it should be considered actual punishment. The latter doesn't have good intentions towards the player in question. Hence specific reasons are required for doing so.

You can't help noticing that Farke has been teaching these kinds of lessons for a while.

 

Quote

Are they about to be sold?

 

No. Because why else would you pull the rug from under their valuations?

 

Quote

Are they now out of the picture until after the window closes and they have to play to get momentum for a move in january?

 

No. I am not a lawyer, but if this was the strategy, sounds serious enough for a formal investigation. In any case, it poisons the well you're drinking from three times:

Discourages other teams from dealing with you in the future.

Discourages players from wanting to sign with the club in the future.

Demoralizes current teammates, thus undermining not only the future, but current prospects of the team.

Any one of these is enough to end Norwich City.

 

Quote

So do you think both Cantwell and Buendia will be back into the side at the weekend?

 

Yes. If they aren't, I'm sure Farke will offer detailed reasons for not allowing that. I'd also be interested to know why he did not choose other options to deal with the players presumed attitudes or misheaviour. Otherwise one gets the impression the club's main assets are being devalued and two extremely promising players careers are being stunted for no reasons.

I don't want to sound hyperbolic, but any problems between players and coach should be considered existential for Norwich City at the moment. It is not about getting the players to behave and play well this season. It is about survival of the business model during existential crisis for professional football in current form.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

i think both will be sold this week

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

6 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i think both will be sold this week

Sell for £40/50m the pair, spend a tenth and put the rest in the Corona fund? 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Midlands Yellow

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

15 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

There is no excuse for poor training and aptitude. However the clubs ambitions don’t meet mine and many other fans expectations and I would very much doubt they meet the expectations of the 2 players in question. 
 

they are by far our most prized assets. Far exceeding the defenders who people rate so highly yet of continue to be out of position and ineffective week in week out. 
 

 

Pffftttttttt.......... Barcelona, Bayern Munich, AC Milan, Roma, PSG, Tottenham, Arsenal, Everton and Fulham all don't know what they're talking about..... unlike football guru Hardhouse 44 🤣

[Jim Smith 2,314]

2 hours ago, Alex Moss said:

There’s being a ‘bad trainer’ but being committed to the club, and then actually downing tools completely (if reports are to be believed).

With respect, they are not one and the same at all.

What "reports" are you believing there? I've not seen any reports of players downing tools completely. You can watch the video of training from Friday on youtube and they are both there, training in the rain. 

Farke hasn;t said they have downed tools, he hasn;t even said they trained badly more that he has made a judgment that they are not entirely focussed at the moment. Impossible for anyone to prove that one way or another including him and I think its quite unfair that he has basically hung the players out to dry here. Emi may have enough goodwill from the fans to come back from it - frankly if he were to play next week and play well then the fans would just be so delighted to still have him they will forget about it.

For Todd on the other hand I find it hard to see how he comes back from this with us. 

[norfolkngood 1,086]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Sell for £40/50m the pair, spend a tenth and put the rest in the Corona fund? 

Exactly i think  this season with Cantwell ,Lewis and Emi maybe Aarons gone we will be a lot weaker than last season we were in the championship 

I Can not see how the plan is going to work without spend good money there is 4 players of PL quality to replace just there ! 

[Aggy 750]

2 hours ago, birchfest said:

Im curious to gauge what people think the strategy is here, was Farke teaching them a lesson and to get them focused and fired up? Are they about to be sold? Are they now out of the picture until after the window closes and they have to play to get momentum for a move in january? So do you think both Cantwell and Buendia will be back into the side at the weekend?

 

A 'Yes' or 'No' reply please, and then after any reasoning if you want to go into it. Im going to be bold (and hopeful) with a YES. 

Four questions here

 1. Maybe but doubt it.
 

2. Probably yes, Cantwell more likely to go than Buendia imo but both likely.

3. If all interest ends and they train well/want to be involved, get them involved ASAP in my opinion, but I expect the answer will be ‘yes’.

4. No. One of them maybe but I doubt both. 

Buendia more likely to be welcomed back into the cold than Cantwell from the sort of things we’re hearing at the moment - and is the better of the two. If Buendia is fit and wants to play, he plays. If Cantwell is fit and wants to play, he plays IF he fits the rest of the formation and nobody is in better form than him at that time.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

2 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

What "reports" are you believing there? I've not seen any reports of players downing tools completely. You can watch the video of training from Friday on youtube and they are both there, training in the rain. 

Farke hasn;t said they have downed tools, he hasn;t even said they trained badly more that he has made a judgment that they are not entirely focussed at the moment. Impossible for anyone to prove that one way or another including him and I think its quite unfair that he has basically hung the players out to dry here. Emi may have enough goodwill from the fans to come back from it - frankly if he were to play next week and play well then the fans would just be so delighted to still have him they will forget about it.

For Todd on the other hand I find it hard to see how he comes back from this with us. 

i think you are right it is More transfer News that has effected them instead of bad training etc 

But that is what management is all about 

Mclean might turn up 30 mins before training everyday but is he a match winner ? 

or say someone who is fantastic on a matchday banging in goals but is a terrible time keeper for training 

i think fine them yes but always play your best team if we are 3 pts from getting up at the end of the season that might have been a expensive mistake leaving those two out of the squad 

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

15 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Farke hasn;t said they have downed tools, he hasn;t even said they trained badly more that he has made a judgment that they are not entirely focussed at the moment. Impossible for anyone to prove that one way or another including him and I think its quite unfair that he has basically hung the players out to dry here.

I think you have answered your own point here to an extent. He has only 'hung out the players to dry' from the view of the fans who are immediately reading far too much into it than is warranted. Like you say, in reality the comments suggest very little other than a lack of focus. Yet this has been magnified into something much bigger. Whether or not these fans are proven correct is another point, but I don't think that justifies the abuse now when we clearly don't know the full circumstances - the comments should be taken at face value for the good of all parties until we have a clearer picture. Of course that doesn't mean we can't speculate.

You may think that Farke should've handled it better in this respect by keeping things away from fan knowledge entirely, and I wouldn't disagree at all, but the fact that Buendia seems to be getting off nearly scot-free while Cantwell is being absolutely vilified would suggest that Farke did not anticipate such a negative reaction for either player.

Both players have received the same treatment yet only one has been 'hung out to dry'.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Badger 2,405]

25 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

However the clubs ambitions don’t meet mine and many other fans expectations and I would very much doubt they meet the expectations of the 2 players in question. 

 

27 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

They are winners and winners want to progress. Unfortunately the club and a large section of the supporters are to frightened to allow it to happen.

I think that the vast majority of fans are just as "ambitious" as you are. However, many of them have a more adult understanding of financial realities than some who claim "ambition" demonstrate. The world just isn't quite as simple as you seem to think.

[HazzaJet 252]

Provided they keep a positive attitude and don’t get injured I think they’ll both make the match day squad v Derby and at least one of them will start. We’ll see