New Tory Leader

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

15 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Ministers are unbelievably digging huge holes for the Government by defending themselves with complete nonsense responses.

Its priti obvious who are the low life here.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Their record says you wouldn't have them running a Car Boot Sale.

[ricardo 7,348]

40 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Their record says you wouldn't have them running a Car Boot Sale.

He's made of Teflon mate.

 

[Herman 9,717]

Teflon, but after scraping with a brillo.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

33 minutes ago, ricardo said:

He's made of Teflon mate.

 

You're right, nothing sticks to this bloke.

Not even his word.

[Herman 9,717]

 

[sonyc 5,492]

Tory thread or Independence thread?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/14/government-to-introduce-statute-of-limitations-on-troubles-prosecutions?

This is going to fan the flames even more isn't it? 

Many folk who have lost relatives will never let this go.

What is needed is some kind of longer term truth and reconciliation process. A process that actually started in the late 90s but we're risking going back decades with this statute, despite the so-called intention.

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

45 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Tory thread or Independence thread?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/14/government-to-introduce-statute-of-limitations-on-troubles-prosecutions?

This is going to fan the flames even more isn't it? 

Many folk who have lost relatives will never let this go.

What is needed is some kind of longer term truth and reconciliation process. A process that actually started in the late 90s but we're risking going back decades with this statute, despite the so-called intention.

 

Of course it is and the government knows that full well - they know that abandoning those prosecutions the other week went down like a cup of cold sick and I don't think the 12th generated the level of protest/violence that they were hoping for so they're giving N>I> another prod in the hope of ratcheting up the problems a bit more.

They've already shown with the NI Protocol that they have no compunction whatever in provoking sectarian divisions when it suits them. I suspect their slightly longer term calculation is that NI is lost to re-unification anyway and they want to put in place as many obstacles as possible to the Irish government launching proper investigations (especially into the British Army's actions) after re-unification - no idea what the legal position would be, pretty sure the Irish Government would be free to investigate but I dare say Johnson is trying to ensure that they can't get any access to any British solders which will obviously make it pretty difficult.

[Well b back 3,190]

I see Priti Patel will not be answering the urgent question on Racism this afternoon, at least Hancock had the guts to face the music.

It was said only white politicians would be allowed to speak, but the speaker has insisted that at least two black Labour politicians will be pre selected to speak.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I see Priti Patel will not be answering the urgent question on Racism this afternoon, at least Hancock had the guts to face the music.

It was said only white politicians would be allowed to speak, but the speaker has insisted that at least two black Labour politicians will be pre selected to speak.

What a bunch of total slimeballs they are - they just seem totally incapable of making a truthful statement .......ever and at the same time entirely unconcerned that their lies are almost always quickly exposed as such 🙄

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

If one does as God does enough times one becomes as God is.

From Hannibal Lecter in the original Manhunter.

Applicable to some of the Tory ministers.

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 12/07/2021 at 20:02, Creative Midfielder said:

Whilst we've all become accustomed over the last ten+ years to incredibly shoddy governance and leadership of the UK - Cameron, May and now Johnson, all incompetent and each lacking any sort of leadership skills and each worse than their predecessor - some of you may have formed the impression that I've never been much of a fan of the lazy, incompetent, lying scumbag that is currently pretending to be our Prime Minister and you'd be right 😃

Still even allowing for all that I think we have now reached a new nadir, in fact I'd go so far a to say I think today we've seen the greatest abdication of leadership from a British PM definitely in my lifetime, almost certainly since WW2 and probably ever.

Thats it really, I could go on but I think I've covered the main and most obvious points.....😃

yes, infantile self serving and diversionary. Most importantly they are still warmongering, pretending that we could afford wars by hiding behind uncle Sams coat.

[Well b back 3,190]

Boris is god !
In his levelling up speech he has just claimed he personally increased life expectancy for Londoners during his time as Mayor.

[Well b back 3,190]

And in the questions claimed he and his ministers encouraged England supporters to not boo the taking of the knee. 

Cummins had it right the guy is a compulsive liar and can’t help himself.
 

[sonyc 5,492]

On 12/07/2021 at 21:02, Creative Midfielder said:

Whilst we've all become accustomed over the last ten+ years to incredibly shoddy governance and leadership of the UK - Cameron, May and now Johnson, all incompetent and each lacking any sort of leadership skills and each worse than their predecessor - some of you may have formed the impression that I've never been much of a fan of the lazy, incompetent, lying scumbag that is currently pretending to be our Prime Minister and you'd be right 😃

Still even allowing for all that I think we have now reached a new nadir, in fact I'd go so far a to say I think today we've seen the greatest abdication of leadership from a British PM definitely in my lifetime, almost certainly since WW2 and probably ever.

Thats it really, I could go on but I think I've covered the main and most obvious points.....😃

Thought about your post CM and it's got your usual darker humour yet also very serious in the main point, Johnson.  I wonder whether you saw Anna Soubry last night? She made quite a few points (which I've thought about more and added some of my analysis below... sorry for the length as I've been thinking a lot!!).  

I believe they sum up this government and Johnson especially. Summary here in bullet points!

• This is government by polling. They carry out very regular checks and polls of opinion.
• These provide short term inputs - yet it means a good deal of variability and often  leads to U turns as government changes tack - when opinion changes
• There is a distinct lack of a long term view, with very little vision but is made up of reactions...a dearth of planning
• Often government can become blind-sided by change in opinions which as we all know can move fast on social media - like a fire, things catch hold quickly
• Johnson et al often don't understand all the nuances (the race and football issue is one great example....hence him having to quickly row back from a previous position)
• Power and keeping it is everything to Johnson
• There has been learning from Trump
• One analyst explained how this polling approach could mean future victories in general elections
• Yet, something big could happen that it may come unstuck
• This is not the Conservative party as we know it, more the Boris Brexit party, populist and nationalist
• BJ doesn't care for anything except power and as such he will run with the way the wind blows
• Real 'political 'views  based on some deeper seated set of values are largely absent...for instance when Johnson was mayor he was anti Brexit and also pro immigration...he believed in multi cultural London. He has changed both views. We know this as it's in the public domain
• His whole cabinet is attuned to this way of governing. It's about power not accountability...the latter is not especially respected
• Older more moderate Tories have been sidelined and know what this government is about (May, Grieve etc)
• It will come unstuck at some stage
• In summary, polls are everything, it's government in the short term, about snapshot opinions and populist
• You could argue it is dynamic, listening and responsive. Plus they are better at 'politicing' than labour who have struggled and arguably have more values that matter to them (ideas of social justice)
• This kind of government needs similar thinking cabinet ministers to operate....perhaps why we see the make up as we do...fairly incompetent ministers who want power.
• Their collective mind can change just like the wind
• We hear expressions such as "I miss- spoke". Untruths are swept away. OurTrump really?
• Long term Tory supporters are far more centre even slightly centre left, more respectful and even liberal. They are not wholly enamoured with him. Parts of South e.g. note by-elections results hints at this

I think this explains what kind of government we have and it's behaviour. Some posters here don't care for it whilst a fair few are not really bothered....'older school' moderates are critical and see Johnson for what he is.

You can certainly see how Cummings' term "useful idiots" applies. Also, you can see why Johnson hasn't sacked ministers for things that would be a matter for resignation in more normal times.

Amazingly, footballers have managed to put some of this into the limelight!!! Mings has owned Patel in one articulate tweet. Rashford has been influencing policy...school meals!  It's been particularly bad news for Johnson that we lost the final as this has embroiled him and Patel in the race issue, his hypocrisy and ministers have had to try and wheel out the usual distractions.

One day there will be many TV documentaries. I reckon some people have been duped. Or perhaps folk are happy with all this or don't take much interest. That is what Johnson builds in to his 'strategy'. Hence the polls still show Johnson riding high. He is made of teflon - for now.

It is a period in our history that is rather unpleasant, indeed lacking in integrity. It paves the way perhaps for something different? 

Yet for now, as Gramsci has so eloquently described..."the crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new struggles to be born, now is the time of monsters".

Edited July 15, 2021 by sonyc

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

13 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thought about your post CM and it's got your usual darker humour yet also very serious in the main point, Johnson.  I wonder whether you saw Anna Soubry last night? She made quite a few points (which I've thought about more and added some of my analysis below... sorry for the length as I've been thinking a lot!!).  

I believe they sum up this government and Johnson especially. Summary here in bullet points!

• This is government by polling. They carry out very regular checks and polls of opinion.
• These provide short term inputs - yet it means a good deal of variability and often  leads to U turns as government changes tack - when opinion changes
• There is a distinct lack of a long term view, with very little vision but is made up of reactions...a dearth of planning
• Often government can become blind-sided by change in opinions which as we all know can move fast on social media - like a fire, things catch hold quickly
• Johnson et al often don't understand all the nuances (the race and football issue is one great example....hence him having to quickly row back from a previous position)
• Power and keeping it is everything to Johnson
• There has been learning from Trump
• One analyst explained how this polling approach could mean future victories in general elections
• Yet, something big could happen that it may come unstuck
• This is not the Conservative party as we know it, more the Boris Brexit party, populist and nationalist
• BJ doesn't care for anything except power and as such he will run with the way the wind blows
• Real 'political 'views  based on some deeper seated set of values are largely absent...for instance when Johnson was mayor he was anti Brexit and also pro immigration...he believed in multi cultural London. He has changed both views. We know this as it's in the public domain
• His whole cabinet is attuned to this way of governing. It's about power not accountability...the latter is not especially respected
• Older more moderate Tories have been sidelined and know what this government is about (May, Grieve etc)
• It will come unstuck at some stage
• In summary, polls are everything, it's government in the short term, about snapshot opinions and populist
• You could argue it is dynamic, listening and responsive. Plus they are better at 'politicing' than labour who have struggled and arguably have more values that matter to them (ideas of social justice)
• This kind of government needs similar thinking cabinet ministers to operate....perhaps why we see the make up as we do...fairly incompetent ministers who want power.
• Their collective mind can change just like the wind
• We hear expressions such as "I miss- spoke". Untruths are swept away. OurTrump really?
• Long term Tory supporters are far more centre even slightly centre left, more respectful and even liberal. They are not wholly enamoured with him. Parts of South e.g. note by-elections results hints at this

I think this explains what kind of government we have and it's behaviour. Some posters here don't care for it whilst a fair few are not really bothered....'older school' moderates are critical and see Johnson for what he is.

You can certainly see how Cummings' term "useful idiots" applies. Also, you can see why Johnson hasn't sacked ministers for things that would be a matter for resignation in more normal times.

Amazingly, footballers have managed to put some of this into the limelight!!! Mings has owned Patel in one articulate tweet. Rashford has been influencing policy...school meals!  It's been particularly bad news for Johnson that we lost the final as this has embroiled him and Patel in the race issue, his hypocrisy and ministers have had to try and wheel out the usual distractions.

One day there will be many TV documentaries. I reckon some people have been duped. Or perhaps folk are happy with all this or don't take much interest. That is what Johnson builds in to his 'strategy'. Hence the polls still show Johnson riding high. He is made of teflon - for now.

It is a period in our history that is rather unpleasant, indeed lacking in integrity. It paves the way perhaps for something different? 

Yet for now, as Gramsci has so eloquently described..."the crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new struggles to be born, now is the time of monsters".

I didn't see Anna Soubry last night so thanks for the summary and indeed your own thoughts, both parts are very interesting and IMO are absolutely spot on the money.

Loved the Gramsci quote but I was also intrigued by your penultimate paragraph which is undoubtedly true but also somewhat ambiguous - I'm sure you are right that this very unpleasant period in our history does not remotely resemble a stable state and certainly paves the way for changes.

But I'm afraid my fear and expectation is that the coming changes are going to be for the worse. I know you always take an optismistic view, or perhaps try hard to see the positive would be a more accurate way of putting it, so I'm guessing that you are hoping/expecting that the changes will be for the better.

Of course, I hope they will as well but my gut feeling at the moment is that I'm going to be disappointed.

 

[horsefly 4,287]

44 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thought about your post CM and it's got your usual darker humour yet also very serious in the main point, Johnson.  I wonder whether you saw Anna Soubry last night? She made quite a few points (which I've thought about more and added some of my analysis below... sorry for the length as I've been thinking a lot!!).  

I believe they sum up this government and Johnson especially. Summary here in bullet points!

• This is government by polling. They carry out very regular checks and polls of opinion.
• These provide short term inputs - yet it means a good deal of variability and often  leads to U turns as government changes tack - when opinion changes
• There is a distinct lack of a long term view, with very little vision but is made up of reactions...a dearth of planning
• Often government can become blind-sided by change in opinions which as we all know can move fast on social media - like a fire, things catch hold quickly
• Johnson et al often don't understand all the nuances (the race and football issue is one great example....hence him having to quickly row back from a previous position)
• Power and keeping it is everything to Johnson
• There has been learning from Trump
• One analyst explained how this polling approach could mean future victories in general elections
• Yet, something big could happen that it may come unstuck
• This is not the Conservative party as we know it, more the Boris Brexit party, populist and nationalist
• BJ doesn't care for anything except power and as such he will run with the way the wind blows
• Real 'political 'views  based on some deeper seated set of values are largely absent...for instance when Johnson was mayor he was anti Brexit and also pro immigration...he believed in multi cultural London. He has changed both views. We know this as it's in the public domain
• His whole cabinet is attuned to this way of governing. It's about power not accountability...the latter is not especially respected
• Older more moderate Tories have been sidelined and know what this government is about (May, Grieve etc)
• It will come unstuck at some stage
• In summary, polls are everything, it's government in the short term, about snapshot opinions and populist
• You could argue it is dynamic, listening and responsive. Plus they are better at 'politicing' than labour who have struggled and arguably have more values that matter to them (ideas of social justice)
• This kind of government needs similar thinking cabinet ministers to operate....perhaps why we see the make up as we do...fairly incompetent ministers who want power.
• Their collective mind can change just like the wind
• We hear expressions such as "I miss- spoke". Untruths are swept away. OurTrump really?
• Long term Tory supporters are far more centre even slightly centre left, more respectful and even liberal. They are not wholly enamoured with him. Parts of South e.g. note by-elections results hints at this

I think this explains what kind of government we have and it's behaviour. Some posters here don't care for it whilst a fair few are not really bothered....'older school' moderates are critical and see Johnson for what he is.

You can certainly see how Cummings' term "useful idiots" applies. Also, you can see why Johnson hasn't sacked ministers for things that would be a matter for resignation in more normal times.

Amazingly, footballers have managed to put some of this into the limelight!!! Mings has owned Patel in one articulate tweet. Rashford has been influencing policy...school meals!  It's been particularly bad news for Johnson that we lost the final as this has embroiled him and Patel in the race issue, his hypocrisy and ministers have had to try and wheel out the usual distractions.

One day there will be many TV documentaries. I reckon some people have been duped. Or perhaps folk are happy with all this or don't take much interest. That is what Johnson builds in to his 'strategy'. Hence the polls still show Johnson riding high. He is made of teflon - for now.

It is a period in our history that is rather unpleasant, indeed lacking in integrity. It paves the way perhaps for something different? 

Yet for now, as Gramsci has so eloquently described..."the crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new struggles to be born, now is the time of monsters".

As thoughtful and perceptive as ever sonyc. I said something pretty similar earlier on the football thread about taking the knee and racism.

I have an image of the first thing Johnson does every morning in his office. He assembles his team of pollsters and says, "Tell me, what is it that I sincerely believe in this morning?"

[sonyc 5,492]

Thank you CM. I have given it some thought for quite a while because, well, can't prevent it going through the old mind😀 and you're right about me wanting to believe change will be for the better. The idealism keeps me positive and in 'fighting' mode if that makes sense, especially when it comes to the potential application of ideas. The paving way idea I think marries with your take. Sometimes life HAS to get worse, for it to reach a change point at which time something new sweeps in. If it doesn't get to that stage then the 'same old' continues. So maybe you're right there.

And the Gramsci quote applies because the new cannot quite become alive. There is a wonderful word of Greek origin I believe, enantiodromia  (which Carl Jung would often quote). That there is an unconscious opposite that replaces one extreme system. Then, that is a very Jungian view I grant you.

Yet I am hopeful that there will be space for a better thing to take its place. I think that's why Gramsci is saying too. Lots of historical examples of BIG movements. Think of Attlee at the end of WW2. Even Blair and 10 years of centre left politics after Thatcherism. Many other examples. Johnson might be more of a blip, who knows.

The instability of Brexit and this appalling almost seemingly moral free decline in public standards is a great worry. It's why so many ordinary but caring people bother to express their views on this site. It's because we do care. I know for one thing, if we had a more benign government in place, even one that we didn't vote for, yet it had values, honesty and some transparency then I wouldn't be posting my thoughts like some kind of therapeutic exercise. Then...do you trust ANY politician? Well, there are some good ones.

Edited July 15, 2021 by sonyc

[horsefly 4,287]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Thank you CM. I have given it some thought for quite a while because, well, can't prevent it going through the old mind😀 and you're right about me wanting to believe change will be for the better. The idealism keeps me positive and in 'fighting' mode if that makes sense, especially when it comes to the potential application of ideas. The paving way idea I think marries with your take. Sometimes life HAS to get worse, for it to reach a change point at which time something new sweeps in. If it doesn't get to that stage then the 'same old' continues. So maybe you're right there.

And the Gramsci quote applies because the new cannot quite become alive. There is a wonderful word of Greek origin I believe, enantiodromia  (which Carl Jung would often quote). That there is an unconscious opposite that replaces one extreme system. Then, that is a very Jungian view I grant you.

Yet I am hopeful that there will be space for a better thing to take its place. I think that's why Gramsci is saying too. Lots of historical examples of BIG movements. Think of Atlee at the end of WW2. Even Blair and 10 years of centre left politics after Thatcherism. Many other examples. Johnson might be more of a blip, who knows.

The instability of Brexit and this appalling almost seemingly moral free zone of public standards is a great worry. It's why so many ordinary but caring people bother to express their views on this site. It's because we do care. I know for one thing, if we had a more benign government in place, even one that we didn't vote for, yet it had values, honesty and some transparency then I wouldn't be posting my thoughts like some kind of therapeutic exercise. Then...do you trust ANY politician? Well, there are some good ones.

I think the thing I take most positivity from is the defeat of Trump. How many of us honestly believed that he would be overthrown after one term? The Johnson government is Trumpean in all its major facets, not least in having a leader who lies and dissembles without a hint of shame. The Tories have taken the divisive populism of Trump as the model for its administration, which has no other objective than a self-serving pursuit of power for its own sake. But as we saw with Trump, and as we saw with the recent debacle of the government's misjudged attempt to undermine the actions of the England football team, populism is very vulnerable to exposure of the sleazy opportunism on which it rests. There is reason to hope that the citizens of the UK will come to see through the sheer incompetence, disingenous, self-serving immorality of Johnson, just as enough US citizens did of Trump. Perversely, Covid has been a Godsend to Johnson as it has distracted from all the scandals within which he is mired, and more significantly distracted from the utter calamity that brexit is wreaking upon the country. Soon, people will become much more aware of just what a shi*t storm Johnson has taken the country into with his lies.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

I think the thing I take most positivity from is the defeat of Trump. How many of us honestly believed that he would be overthrown after one term? The Johnson government is Trumpean in all its major facets, not least in having a leader who lies and dissembles without a hint of shame. The Tories have taken the divisive populism of Trump as the model for its administration, which has no other objective than a self-serving pursuit of power for its own sake. But as we saw with Trump, and as we saw with the recent debacle of the government's misjudged attempt to undermine the actions of the England football team, populism is very vulnerable to exposure of the sleazy opportunism on which it rests. There is reason to hope that the citizens of the UK will come to see through the sheer incompetence, disingenous, self-serving immorality of Johnson, just as enough US citizens did of Trump. Perversely, Covid has been a Godsend to Johnson as it has distracted from all the scandals within which he is mired, and more significantly distracted from the utter calamity that brexit is wreaking upon the country. Soon, people will become much more aware of just what a shi*t storm Johnson has taken the country into with his lies.

Trump came to power with one policy. Hate.

Johnson came in because of Brexit.

They are Men of Straw.

[sonyc 5,492]

On 14/07/2021 at 13:00, Creative Midfielder said:

Of course it is and the government knows that full well - they know that abandoning those prosecutions the other week went down like a cup of cold sick and I don't think the 12th generated the level of protest/violence that they were hoping for so they're giving N>I> another prod in the hope of ratcheting up the problems a bit more.

They've already shown with the NI Protocol that they have no compunction whatever in provoking sectarian divisions when it suits them. I suspect their slightly longer term calculation is that NI is lost to re-unification anyway and they want to put in place as many obstacles as possible to the Irish government launching proper investigations (especially into the British Army's actions) after re-unification - no idea what the legal position would be, pretty sure the Irish Government would be free to investigate but I dare say Johnson is trying to ensure that they can't get any access to any British solders which will obviously make it pretty difficult.

First, a quick apology for replying to another of yours CM but feels apt here rather than adding to my own. This has just been posted ...view of the Irish Foreign Minister. Very interesting graph in it too examining the numbers.

This is seriously bad news for a lasting peace. Why risk this (a huge number of people) for the sake of fewer numbers. There is no answer or happy solution to the troubles on any side but this statute really threatens to make things much worse. Why is this government determined to be so controversial. "Drawing a line under the troubles" my ar5e. More like re-igniting and then fuelling a fire. This won't end well. Like you, I'm guessing there is a bigger objective beneath all this.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/15/uk-plan-to-end-troubles-prosecutions-breaks-international-obligations-irish-minister?

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by sonyc

[Surfer 1,547]

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

The Tories have taken the divisive populism of Trump as the model for its administration, which has no other objective than a self-serving pursuit of power for its own sake. But as we saw with Trump, and as we saw with the recent debacle of the government's misjudged attempt to undermine the actions of the England football team, populism is very vulnerable to exposure of the sleazy opportunism on which it rests. 

Too true Horsefly, and yet more ammunition provided today....

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, Surfer said:

Too true Horsefly, and yet more ammunition provided today....

Here is his speech! 🤣

 

He should have hired Tyrone Mings! He would have been able to get the message across so much more concisely 🙂

[horsefly 4,287]

More sleaze:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/firm-with-ties-to-matt-hancock-given-vip-treatment-emails-suggest?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[horsefly 4,287]

Standard bare-faced lies from a shameless Johnson

 

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by horsefly

[Well b back 3,190]

27 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Standard bare-faced lies from a shameless Johnson

 

 

Strange to think a group of footballers that they thought would lose and help their cause, did so well that they are in a position to say it how it is and people respect and believe them.

Anyone noticed how the England success has not been celebrated at Downing Street. Anyone also notice when he used his football analogy today, he said he didn’t really understand football.

[horsefly 4,287]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Anyone noticed how the England success has not been celebrated at Downing Street. Anyone also notice when he used his football analogy today, he said he didn’t really understand football.

But, but, but...I saw him with my own eyes holding the flag of St George, outside Downing street bedecked in red crosses, on tv with an England top proudly heaved over his shirt and tie. It's simply not possible that his professed undying love for soccerball could be fake.

[horsefly 4,287]

Johnson absolutely taken apart by Gary Neville:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gary-neville-launches-fresh-attack-on-liar-boris-johnson-over-comments-on-taking-the-knee/ar-AAMc5TS?ocid=msedgntp

[Well b back 3,190]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Johnson absolutely taken apart by Gary Neville:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/gary-neville-launches-fresh-attack-on-liar-boris-johnson-over-comments-on-taking-the-knee/ar-AAMc5TS?ocid=msedgntp

As I said strange scenario, the likes of the pink un posters get ridiculed as did Neville according to this. However now some of the most respected people in the Country, our Footballers ( club and international past and present ) are calling him out and people are listening. 
The likes of me saying I would not vote Conservative whilst he is there is one thing, respected people like these carry a lot of weight as Rashford has already shown.

Just like Rashford before he has picked a fight with the wrong people and this will not go away.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Well b back

[Well b back 3,190]

Clearly a bigger crime to be the whistleblower rather than the criminal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57853164