New Tory Leader

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

25 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Not sure on this but are you not allowed to lie to Parliament ? That is a genuine question as didn’t Starmer deliberately get him to use those words ?
 

Downing Street and the government are facing some really serious allegations.

Among them, are whether the PM made comments about seeing "bodies pile high" rather than take the country into a third lockdown.

The BBC reported the comments in April - but the prime minister denied making them in Parliament.

Cummings - however - has told MPs he DID hear the prime minister make the comments.

"I heard that in the prime minister's study" he said.

Boris Johnson is now likely to face more questions about whether he made the remarks - and if he misled Parliament by denying them.

This is SO English. It is a Parliamentary offence to accuse an MP/minister of lying, even if you know they are lying. As to the liar, it used in effect to be a sacking offence to be caught out in a lie. John Profumo was sacked as the minister for war as much for having lied to Parliament as for his extra-marital whatsits that made him a security risk. But Johnson? If one took account of his lies he would never have had a career in politics, let alone become PM.

[Van wink 2,994]

52 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Completely agree WBB but I simply believe that it will be tomorrow's fish and chip paper. Nothing seems to stick with all this. The reckoning will come in maybe 5 or 10 years time. People will not forget this period of our politics but for the moment people want to get through a pandemic and don't really want to find fault in strategy. They simply want a solution. That's why there is still such support for Johnson.

We are, more importantly, getting a real insider view of the arrogance of power, the great distance between leaders in the decision making of our country and the every day concerns of the general populace. We are seeing what a populist government is made up of, how it operates. It's a bit chilling really.

Yep, what we are seeing is how Government works, populist or otherwise, it may be shocking but in no way surprising. The most significant thing said for me was his remark regarding the Country basically only having a choice between Corbyn and BJ at the last election....no more needs to be said.

[Well b back 3,186]

9 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Real predicament. If Boris sacks him then its an admittance. If he keeps him then he is going to be asking questions for weeks to come.

Just been asked again, and this was response. Have a feeling Hancock will not be sleeping well tonight.

Cummings challenged to publish evidence Hancock lied

Throughout today's session Dominic Cummings has repeated accused Health Secretary Matt Hancock of lying.

Chair of the Science committee Greg Clark says it is important that he should provide evidence of his claims.

Cummings says he would be "happy" to discuss how to provide" it and explain what happened.

Greg Clark notes that the health secretary will give evidence to the committee himself in the coming weeks.

 

[Well b back 3,186]

For those not following earlier DC referred to BJ as a shopping trolley, constantly changing direction, but not even mentioning to others he was about to change policy, and then ring the media himself. About Sunak he just said

He says the chancellor was "at his wit's end about the shopping trolley," referring to his earlier comments describing the prime minister as a "shopping trolley" who went from one side to the other.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

For those not following earlier DC referred to BJ as a shopping trolley, constantly changing direction, but not even mentioning to others he was about to change policy, and then ring the media himself. About Sunak he just said

He says the chancellor was "at his wit's end about the shopping trolley," referring to his earlier comments describing the prime minister as a "shopping trolley" who went from one side to the other.

Angling for a job in the Sunak government

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yep, what we are seeing is how Government works, populist or otherwise, it may be shocking but in no way surprising. The most significant thing said for me was his remark regarding the Country basically only having a choice between Corbyn and BJ at the last election....no more needs to be said.

Sorry VW but that was Cummings opinion. If the facts he presented are backed up then whether or not this is usual Government workings does not in any way go unchallenged. We aren't talking policy. How many of the 127K dead could have been prevented.

[Well b back 3,186]

8 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Angling for a job in the Sunak government

That did come up lol. His response was

Sarah Owen says it his striking that his testimony today has been praising of Rishi Sunak, she asks if he is aiming for a future job in a Sunak administration.

Cummings says most people in Westminster and Whitehall probably think - and his wife would agree - that "the less they see of me, the better".

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

16 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Yep, what we are seeing is how Government works, populist or otherwise, it may be shocking but in no way surprising. The most significant thing said for me was his remark regarding the Country basically only having a choice between Corbyn and BJ at the last election....no more needs to be said.

That is nonsense. Whatever one thought of Thatcher or Blair, for example, in terms of policies, they were competent prime ministers who ran reasonably efficient governments based on joined-up thinking.

The point about today is while the detail is interesting none of the general accusations are remotely surprising. Anyone who knew anything about Johnson was aware he was a disastrous (and in the case of covid, deadly) combination of the immoral and the incompetent, and totally unfit to run a small-town whelk stall, let alone a G7 country.

Seeming many voters didn't realise this last time, but from now on no-one can have the slightest excuse for not understanding it and acting accordingly.

[TheGunnShow 5,929]

5 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That is nonsense. Whatever one thought of Thatcher or Blair, for example, in terms of policies, they were competent prime ministers who ran reasonably efficient governments based on joined-up thinking.

The point about today is while the detail is interesting none of the general accusations are remotely surprising. Anyone who knew anything about Johnson was aware he was a disastrous (and in the case of covid, deadly) combination of the immoral and the incompetent, and totally unfit to run a small-town whelk stall, let alone a G7 country.

Seeming many voters didn't realise this last time, but from now on no-one can have the slightest excuse for not understanding it and acting accordingly.

Agree there. Blair and Thatcher were probably the last two with a vision to work towards, instead of just being managers.

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Waiting for Jools, RTB, Swindon and Ricardo to refute it all.

Well it's quite funny seeing the love-in for Cummings from you lot.

 

Cummings sounds like that weird girlfriend who can't understand why she was dumped.

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I should have tried to force PM into lockdown - Cummings

Cummings says that before leaving post, he had decided to stay to "stop any many people dying as I could do" - but it was "obvious" after the second national lockdown "that I was going to be gone within days".

But he says he "terribly regrets" that during the period when the PM was considering whether to have an autumn lockdown, he did not threaten to resign within 48 hours.

He says he should have offered to go "quietly" if the PM agreed to impose another lockdown, or if not to call a press conference and tell the public the PM was making a "terrible decision".

"I should have gambled on holding a gun to his head, essentially".

The power of his position has obviously gone to Cummings head by this time. Special Advisors calling press conferences? Did Cummings think he was now running the country? Johnson did the right thing in sacking this bozo.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Well it's quite funny seeing the love-in for Cummings from you lot.

 

Cummings sounds like that weird girlfriend who can't understand why she was dumped.

You are so funny.

If you read my posts I called Cummings a creep. But he has nothing to from lying.

I wouldn't pish on him if he was on fire but are you really going to say it was all lies.

This is the most corrupt, weak, lying and inept Government ever. Probably why you support them?

[Van wink 2,994]

14 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

That is nonsense. Whatever one thought of Thatcher or Blair, for example, in terms of policies, they were competent prime ministers who ran reasonably efficient governments based on joined-up thinking.

The point about today is while the detail is interesting none of the general accusations are remotely surprising. Anyone who knew anything about Johnson was aware he was a disastrous (and in the case of covid, deadly) combination of the immoral and the incompetent, and totally unfit to run a small-town whelk stall, let alone a G7 country.

Seeming many voters didn't realise this last time, but from now on no-one can have the slightest excuse for not understanding it and acting accordingly.

“Joined up thinking” a blast from the past that one. The illusion that government is a well oiled machine ready to respond to all emerging threats and emergency is equally nonsense. Thatchers war in the Falklands was won at a political level by luck and the sacrifice of others, competence at a political level was absent. Blair  is guilty of deception at the highest level with consequences that we still feel repercussions from and uncountable others have lost and still lose their lives. 
This lot are a pretty poor bunch but don’t kid yourself with misconceptions of the competence of their predecessors.

[Herman 9,710]

And there it really is.Whatever excuses people are going to make.

 

[Well b back 3,186]

6 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The power of his position has obviously gone to Cummings head by this time. Special Advisors calling press conferences? Did Cummings think he was now running the country? Johnson did the right thing in sacking this bozo.

Was he sacked ? I have no idea.

Any other company would have marched Cummings off the premises ( wether he resigned or was sacked ) and all access to any info or documents removed and blocked. He would also you would have thought, been bound by the official secrets act, certainly his phone would have been removed, or are you saying these messages from Hancock and Johnson were on Cummings personal phone ?. 

I still have some doubts as to wether his evidence was correct, but he claims there was nothing he said that he couldn’t back up from official papers or what’s app messages. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

6 minutes ago, Van wink said:

“Joined up thinking” a blast from the past that one. The illusion that government is a well oiled machine ready to respond to all emerging threats and emergency is equally nonsense. Thatchers war in the Falklands was won at a political level by luck and the sacrifice of others, competence at a political level was absent. Blair  is guilty of deception at the highest level with consequences that we still feel repercussions from and uncountable others have lost and still lose their lives. 
This lot are a pretty poor bunch but don’t kid yourself with misconceptions of the competence of their predecessors.

Oh dear. It is a mistake to misrepresent what I post. It only shows a lack of a counter-argument. I did not say Thatcher and Blair ran governments that were well-oiled perfect and responded well to all problems. But they (and Major despite appalling opposition from within his own party) did preside over governments that had a plan and stuck to it reasonably well most of the time.

Johnson, as by now should be apparent even to the dimmest voter, is entirely incompetent. In everything. All the time. A useless and wastrel mayor of London, by common consent the worst foreign secretary anyone can remember, who made worse any problem he was meant to solve, and a lethal nightmare of a prime minister.

[Well b back 3,186]

Johnson did the right thing in sacking this bozo.

 

He says Carrie Symonds wanted to "get rid" of him from No 10 but ultimately he left because of Boris Johnson's "appalling" behaviour. "Fundamentally I regarded him as unfit for the job."
 

 

[Well b back 3,186]

39 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Well it's quite funny seeing the love-in for Cummings from you lot.

 

Cummings sounds like that weird girlfriend who can't understand why she was dumped.

Beth Rigby

 

@BethRigby

·

1h

 

 

I don't think I have ever seen anything like it. For such a senior advisor to so openly and comprehensively try to demolish a sitting prime minister is jaw-dropping. And whatever you think about Cummings, Johnson let him into the inner room, which means his testimony counts

[Van wink 2,994]

34 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Oh dear. It is a mistake to misrepresent what I post. It only shows a lack of a counter-argument. I did not say Thatcher and Blair ran governments that were well-oiled perfect and responded well to all problems. But they (and Major despite appalling opposition from within his own party) did preside over governments that had a plan and stuck to it reasonably well most of the time.

Johnson, as by now should be apparent even to the dimmest voter, is entirely incompetent. In everything. All the time. A useless and wastrel mayor of London, by common consent the worst foreign secretary anyone can remember, who made worse any problem he was meant to solve, and a lethal nightmare of a prime minister.

Don't "oh dear" me, it has more sinister connotations!

Forgive me if I responded in light of the recent claims (today) regarding Government response to an emergency situation. You presumably were referring ( out of context ) to the more routine machinations of government. My focus on the issue being discussed distracted me.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

The power of his position has obviously gone to Cummings head by this time. Special Advisors calling press conferences? Did Cummings think he was now running the country? Johnson did the right thing in sacking this bozo.

He called the Press Conference at Johnson's behest. Trying to cover up the weak effort that Boris made trying to defend ****'s actions. Don't twist everything. Just state the facts as Cummings did today.

The only part you got right was, if true, Boris sacking him. I would rather lick a Cane Toad than shake hands with him but as has been said, he was there in the room. The new adviser will be rushing round finding some patsy to come out and refute it all.

I wouldn't mind betting the ERG group are at this moment thinking of ways to get rid of the idiot.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Well it's quite funny seeing the love-in for Cummings from you lot.

😂😂😂 I haven't seen even the slightest sign of a love in for Cummings from anyone but if you could ever tear yourself away from fake news sites and your own delusions then you might become aware of the very ancient proverb "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Personally, I have nothing but contempt for Cummings and what he has done to this country over the last six years but if he completely guts Johnson and hangs him out to dry then he will finally have done most of us and the country some good. 😀

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

8 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

😂😂😂 I haven't seen even the slightest sign of a love in for Cummings from anyone but if you could ever tear yourself away from fake news sites and your own delusions then you might become aware of the very ancient proverb "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Personally, I have nothing but contempt for Cummings and what he has done to this country over the last six years but if he completely guts Johnson and hangs him out to dry then he will finally have done most of us and the country some good. 😀

Well that's not going to happen, sorry to disappoint

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Beth Rigby

 

@BethRigby

·

1h

 

 

I don't think I have ever seen anything like it. For such a senior advisor to so openly and comprehensively try to demolish a sitting prime minister is jaw-dropping. And whatever you think about Cummings, Johnson let him into the inner room, which means his testimony counts

Have you never heard somebody dissing their employer after being sacked?

Everyone who has employed someone or worked at a senior level in an organisation has met a Cummings.
A nerd genius, brilliant individual of clear vision and insight. Capable of analysing complex data and situations with direct remedies and clear actions. Almost irreplaceable .... but ...

Cannot work in teams, shows absolutely no loyalty, says things in front of even more senior people (e.g. a board) that makes you wince with embarrassment, no emotional intelligence, unnecessarily rude, picks fights such that if in an empty room would pick a fight with himself. In short carries more baggage than a A380.

Picking a fight with your bosses missus is not a good career move. In that respect, as he is demonstrating today, clever as he may be he totally lacks political skills. And that has been his undoing.

[Herman 9,710]

We did wonder what you were going to come up with to try and excuse today's pronouncements. Good effort.👍

[Rock The Boat 1,324]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

And there it really is.Whatever excuses people are going to make.

 

Because it totally misses the point. Our covid strategy, especially at the first lockdown was not to prevent deaths but to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Had hospitals become overwhelmed then far more people would have died than actually did. And as sad as it is, those deaths were mainly confined to the very elderly and those with vulnerable conditions. 

[Herman 9,710]

I think you are missing the major point of putting untested/ill people back into care homes, which was heavily reported but refuted by many, which was like putting petrol onto a wildfire. Also ignoring the lack of seriousness at the start making our natural head start null and void.

[horsefly 4,282]

5 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Have you never heard somebody dissing their employer after being sacked?

Everyone who has employed someone or worked at a senior level in an organisation has met a Cummings.
A nerd genius, brilliant individual of clear vision and insight. Capable of analysing complex data and situations with direct remedies and clear actions. Almost irreplaceable .... but ...

Cannot work in teams, shows absolutely no loyalty, says things in front of even more senior people (e.g. a board) that makes you wince with embarrassment, no emotional intelligence, unnecessarily rude, picks fights such that if in an empty room would pick a fight with himself. In short carries more baggage than a A380.

Picking a fight with your bosses missus is not a good career move. In that respect, as he is demonstrating today, clever as he may be he totally lacks political skills. And that has been his undoing.

A bit like the character of Jeffrey Epstein but without the degenerate paedophilic desires. Great at business and accumulating wealth but unable to control his depraved lusts which resulted in him becoming a convicted paedophile. Believe it or not there are still people around who attempt to defend his depravity and are actually so degenerate themselves that they actually accuse his child rape victims of being "well paid prostitutes". Yeah! almost impossible to believe that someone could be that disgusting isn't it?

[horsefly 4,282]

9 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Because it totally misses the point. Our covid strategy, especially at the first lockdown was not to prevent deaths but to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. Had hospitals become overwhelmed then far more people would have died than actually did. And as sad as it is, those deaths were mainly confined to the very elderly and those with vulnerable conditions. 

Oh dear! totally confused as per usual. Your third sentence completely contradicts the first two, you buffoon. The point of preventing hospitals becoming overwhelmed was precisely to prevent the death toll increasing exponentially, so very simple logic tells you that preventing deaths was fundamental to the policy.

[Van wink 2,994]

17 minutes ago, horsefly said:

A bit like the character of Jeffrey Epstein but without the degenerate paedophilic desires. Great at business and accumulating wealth but unable to control his depraved lusts which resulted in him becoming a convicted paedophile. Believe it or not there are still people around who attempt to defend his depravity and are actually so degenerate themselves that they actually accuse his child rape victims of being "well paid prostitutes". Yeah! almost impossible to believe that someone could be that disgusting isn't it?

you see to have an unhealthy obsession

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

25 minutes ago, Herman said:

We did wonder what you were going to come up with to try and excuse today's pronouncements. Good effort.👍

And I am tickled by the idea that it is Cummings who is picking a fight with Carrie Antoinette. In the longer run my money is on someone else entirely heading for that particular fall.🤓