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9 minutes ago, Well b back said:

If the majority are in favour of Fracking why are we going to pay millions of pounds bribing people to vote in favour of fracking.

How much do we each get in this bribe? Do i have to apply for it or will the government know where to send the money?

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7 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The biggest problem with the NHS is a design flaw in the original model. And that is, the end user has no leverage in the system. You have no choice and you get what you are given, like it or lump it. No choice and no voice. 

Hahaha! Yeah sure! The real problem for the NHS is that patients have no choice about which hospital they would like to attend or which operation they should have. Nothing to do with chronic lack of funding and massive staff shortages. All those problems would disappear if only we got to choose aspirin over paracetamol. What a joke!

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44 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

The bollox has come from twenty five years of neo liberalism starting with Tony Blair. At the moment the jury is out on whether Truss is a continuation or a true Thatcherite. 

Stop blaming everybody else for the problems you and your shoddy government have done. Blair, is not without a lot of faults, but he left the country in reasonably healthy and upbeat state. The tories and the libdems started the austerity ball rolling leading to catastrophic cuts and weakening of every piece of state infrastructure. The lead to the disaster of brexit and covid/putin highlighting the massive flaws in tory austerity/cutting policies.

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18 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

How much do we each get in this bribe? Do i have to apply for it or will the government know where to send the money?

Ask Mogg his quotes from parliament are shown in my earlier link. 

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Mogg vs Milband on fracking.

Mogg has no idea what he is talking about.

 

 

Edited by MooreMarriot
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3 hours ago, Well b back said:

They really have lost the plot. If Russia were paying people to vote yes to fracking we would be condemning them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62993487

It reminds of that quiz on Radio 5 Live where the 2 finalists have to defend the indefensible.

As a Tory voter I have to scream ‘ Tories Out Now ‘.

I personally haven't got a problem with fracking - but as Cuadrilla themselves and Dr. Cornelius (the founder) seem to state it is largely commercially uneconomical in the UK from what they've learnt on their test wells, geological surveys and 100s of millions spent ('sunk'). In short Truss's lifting of the ban is largely a 'political' stunt and not a practical solution in any scenario to solve our energy problems.Yes, just more fantasy politics.

Now - all that said and done, onshore wind should also be fully exploited - as its is practical, cost effective and also a very fast solution to some of our energy shortages. Oddly this very doable practical solution is vetoed due yet again to Tory prejudices.

No wonder we are in a mess with politicians like these. 

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44 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I personally haven't got a problem with fracking - but as Cuadrilla themselves and Dr. Cornelius (the founder) seem to state it is largely commercially uneconomical in the UK from what they've learnt on their test wells, geological surveys and 100s of millions spent ('sunk'). In short Truss's lifting of the ban is largely a 'political' stunt and not a practical solution in any scenario to solve our energy problems.Yes, just more fantasy politics.

If theyve already decided its uneconomic then there won't  be any fracking. Private companies don't chuck money away on lost causes.

Lets wait and see what happens.

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I missed this one just seen it. After kicking our European friends out of working in care homes, Truss is going to provide a £15,000,000 fund to recruit these workers from abroad ?????? 
British jobs for the Brits only I hear many cry.

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Fracking is the obvious solution...hopefully kicking off around JRM's Somerset constituency, Chipping Norton and Westminster. 🤣

Apples

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32 minutes ago, ricardo said:

If theyve already decided its uneconomic then there won't  be any fracking. Private companies don't chuck money away on lost causes.

Lets wait and see what happens.

Thats what the article and Caudrilla basically say. There won't be none but very little.

That said, the announcement should of been to allow on-shore wind and fracking.

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34 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Thats what the article and Caudrilla basically say. There won't be none but very little.

That said, the announcement should of been to allow on-shore wind and fracking.

Indeed but INEOS who weren’t in favour for economic reasons are now totally behind it. Only making an assumption but they haven’t been offered some under the table subsidies have they ?

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There ain't no gas to be fracked, the answer...noocular parr...funded by the Chinese, built and operated by the French, 10 years away. 🇬🇧🤣

Apples

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54 minutes ago, Mr Apples said:

Fracking is the obvious solution...hopefully kicking off around JRM's Somerset constituency, Chipping Norton and Westminster. 🤣

Apples

Indeed, if they hadn’t already lost lots of the Northern seats that they recently won, then fracking is a way to guarantee their loss. With a simple Mogg statement houses in the likes of Blackpool have just lost some of their value.

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Haven't seen any of these recently - looking for the dead cat bounce - but be interesting to see what happens after the budget - sorry fiscal incontinence event.

 

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Indeed, if they hadn’t already lost lots of the Northern seats that they recently won, then fracking is a way to guarantee their loss. With a simple Mogg statement houses in the likes of Blackpool have just lost some of their value.

Did anybody see this - made me laugh

Posted this earlier on the live feed. Even though Fracking looks like a dud it still seems a useful idea.
'Anyone with a few vans painted with the logo "Acme Fracking Ltd" could now have a significant impact on the nation's future by driving them slowly around some Tory marginal constituencies.'

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Haven't seen any of these recently - looking for the dead cat bounce - but be interesting to see what happens after the budget - sorry fiscal incontinence event.

 

Interesting isn’t it, tax cuts, giveaways, improve various things, most people would normally be voting Tory. In this instance however even those at the bottom of the chain realise these things are fantasy and will in the longer term make them worse off.

When do you reckon Mogg and Co will be ready to destroy Truss and bring back Johnson.

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8 hours ago, Well b back said:

Interesting isn’t it, tax cuts, giveaways, improve various things, most people would normally be voting Tory. In this instance however even those at the bottom of the chain realise these things are fantasy and will in the longer term make them worse off.

When do you reckon Mogg and Co will be ready to destroy Truss and bring back Johnson.

Hopefully the Privileges Select Committee will effectively remove that option from them because it is certainly very hard to see the idiot Truss surviving as PM to the next election, unless she calls one immediately to capitalise on her 'honeymoon' period as PM 😂😂

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22 hours ago, sonyc said:

Any bets on when we hear about the first earthquake? 

Or will enough GPs leave meaning surgeries struggle to open? (Takes 9 years to replace them). Health professionals have gone from health heroes in 2020 to villains listening to Coffey.

Or... when we hear about foodbanks having to close?

Will the police cope with the inevitability of rising crime? People tend to steal when they're desperate. There's a bit of a correlation between the state of the economy and crime. Especially when you're policies focus on the wealthier.

 

Just a few questions. Or should that be predictions? I'm sure many commentators here will have more.

 

#backtotheeightiesbuttentimesworse

 

 

 

The problem is that there needs to be a proper debate about healthcare reform that the Labour party needs to be proactive about instead of reducing it to 'save our NHS from the wicked Tories'. 

I have a customer here in France who has had serious breathing difficulties for some years. This was compounded by Covid about 6 months ago. He has been in an out of hospitals and rehabilitation centres for some time now. They would like to go back to the UK for family reasons, but the simple fact is that the UK health system is not a patch on the French system, even though the UK spends slightly more. 

France has a sensible balance of public and private involvement, even though the state spends slightly less on healthcare than the UK. Literally, just copy the French model if you want an effective health care system. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The problem is that there needs to be a proper debate about healthcare reform that the Labour party needs to be proactive about instead of reducing it to 'save our NHS from the wicked Tories'. 

I have a customer here in France who has had serious breathing difficulties for some years. This was compounded by Covid about 6 months ago. He has been in an out of hospitals and rehabilitation centres for some time now. They would like to go back to the UK for family reasons, but the simple fact is that the UK health system is not a patch on the French system, even though the UK spends slightly more. 

France has a sensible balance of public and private involvement, even though the state spends slightly less on healthcare than the UK. Literally, just copy the French model if you want an effective health care system. 

I would be more than happy to look at other countries health systems and see how they work. The trouble is that the tories only ever look at the US health system, because that is one that can make them the most profit. It's never about what is good for the country as a whole.

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57 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The problem is that there needs to be a proper debate about healthcare reform that the Labour party needs to be proactive about instead of reducing it to 'save our NHS from the wicked Tories'. 

I have a customer here in France who has had serious breathing difficulties for some years. This was compounded by Covid about 6 months ago. He has been in an out of hospitals and rehabilitation centres for some time now. They would like to go back to the UK for family reasons, but the simple fact is that the UK health system is not a patch on the French system, even though the UK spends slightly more. 

France has a sensible balance of public and private involvement, even though the state spends slightly less on healthcare than the UK. Literally, just copy the French model if you want an effective health care system. 

I would go with that definitely. I've known former UK residents living in France speak very highly of French healthcare. Even at the local Cabinet Medicale surgeries the GP system works well. You might wait a while but thats because your consultation is 30 to 45 minutes with the doctor! (Well our experience when my wife got bitten by an insect and Doctor Dishy took an age to talk with her and had her lying on a couch...😅...no wonder the waiting room was full of women). 

That said, I wish we had their trains, their balance to the working day with long lunchtime break, their adult political debate on TV and their approach to the corporates when they've had enough (the manifestations!). Even the pension system is arguably better than ours, though with its own problems and challenges.

I'm also with Herman. It's all about profit and corporate greed with the Tories. No other debate apart from privatisation. Less about public good.

Scandinavian countries also appear to have a better balance plus they seem to think carefully about the work and home balance and there is continuity plus the whole set up is communicative, cooperative (state and citizen).

My experience of the NHS here is actually positive (for me if ever I've needed) but for older people it's quite scandalous, and here I'm talking about the interface with social care.

 

Edited by sonyc
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53 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The problem is that there needs to be a proper debate about healthcare reform that the Labour party needs to be proactive about instead of reducing it to 'save our NHS from the wicked Tories'. 

I have a customer here in France who has had serious breathing difficulties for some years. This was compounded by Covid about 6 months ago. He has been in an out of hospitals and rehabilitation centres for some time now. They would like to go back to the UK for family reasons, but the simple fact is that the UK health system is not a patch on the French system, even though the UK spends slightly more. 

France has a sensible balance of public and private involvement, even though the state spends slightly less on healthcare than the UK. Literally, just copy the French model if you want an effective health care system. 

I thought the Europeans did nothing right and the French were useless at everything ? Another load of bo**** to cause divisions.
In the NHS we lost 150,000 EU workers, maybe they went to France.

If the vote goes as expected the nurses will be out on strike soon, so as plenty of it is about the things you mention ( not just salaries ) I guess you will be supporting the industrial action ?.

 

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8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I would go with that definitely. I've known former UK residents living in France speak very highly of French healthcare. Even at the local Cabinet Medicale surgeries the GP system works well. You might wait a while but thats because your consultation is 30 to 45 minutes with the doctor! (Well our experience when my wife got bitten by an insect and Doctor Dishy took an age to talk with her and had her lying on a couch...😅...no wonder the waiting room was full of women). 

That said, I wish we had their trains, their balance to the working day with long lunchtime break, their adult political debate on TV and their approach to the corporates when they've had enough (the manifestations!). Even the pension system is arguably better than ours, though with its own problems and challenges.

I'm also with Herman. It's all about profit and corporate greed with the Tories. No other debate apart from privatisation. Less about public good.

Scandinavian countries also appear to have a better balance plus they seem to think carefully about the work and home balance and there is continuity plus the whole set up is communicative, cooperative (state and citizen).

My experience of the NHS here is actually positive (for me if ever I've needed) but for older people it's quite scandalous, and here I'm talking about the interface with social care.

 

Indeed

completely demoralised are the staff. Covering for 136,000 vacancies mean lots of staff doing constant 12 hour  shifts and bank on their day off. What makes it worse is the likes of Mogg and Fabrigant saying we just sit around doing nothing when healthcare workers and nurses are drained and demoralised. 
The problem is there are huge shortages of care workers, so at the end of their hospital stay the elderly in particular have to stay in hospital as there is nowhere to go. Again a huge mistake ie the Brits were wanting these jobs, but have you asked the average 18 year old if they would want to feed somebody incapable of feeding themselves or if they would be happy to be cleaning soiled beds. Even if we rejoined the EU it would be a decade ( if ever ) before EU citizens had the confidence to come back.

Its a vicious circle now, the Government think it is a good idea to recruit from abroad, at least 30% of our interviews are zoom from outside the U.K. and EU. Of course once that happens the usual suspects will be saying ‘ why are we allowing these foreigners in, British jobs for British workers ‘. 

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The problem is that there needs to be a proper debate about healthcare reform that the Labour party needs to be proactive about instead of reducing it to 'save our NHS from the wicked Tories'. 

I have a customer here in France who has had serious breathing difficulties for some years. This was compounded by Covid about 6 months ago. He has been in an out of hospitals and rehabilitation centres for some time now. They would like to go back to the UK for family reasons, but the simple fact is that the UK health system is not a patch on the French system, even though the UK spends slightly more. 

France has a sensible balance of public and private involvement, even though the state spends slightly less on healthcare than the UK. Literally, just copy the French model if you want an effective health care system. 

Absolutely there needs to be proper debate about healthcare provision and reform, which is what makes Coffey's trite uncosted and unexplained pronouncements so appallingly depressing. Promising a two-week limit for GP appointments without a word of substance about how that "pledge" will be funded or resourced with staff, is the height of immoral and disingenuous posturing. She knows full well that it will be GP practices that face the wrath of patients when they fail to meet targets that Coffey has promised with such contemptuous and cavalier disregard for the financial and logistical realities they face. 

Make no mistake, the NHS is on the verge of collapse. My partner has spent the majority of her time this summer not in her Norfolk practice but in the Midlands on emergency secondment in order to prevent that area from total breakdown. Nothing at all in what Coffey had to say comes remotely close to addressing the existential crisis that exists in our healthcare system. Indeed, everything this "new" Tory regime has so far pledged points to a considerable deepening of the crisis. Reversal of the NI increase will remove billions from the budget, while medical experts predict a particularly vicious flu outbreak this winter (from evidence present in the southern hemisphere), and a resurgence of Covid hospitalisations.  Buckle up! And for God's sake don't be foolish enough to get ill.

Edited by horsefly
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@horsefly

A doctor told me yesterday, what difference will the 2 week bit make for non emergencies as if it is a hospital referral it will still be a 2 year wait for your hospital appointment making a couple of extra days irrelevant. Most doctors are doing rapid telephone consultations and if they feel needed they ask you to come in for further investigations often within 24 hours.

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18 minutes ago, Herman said:

A good day to be already stinking rich.

Kwarteng's speech in summary:

1. 12-years of Tory rule has been a total fu*ck-up.

2. I now propose to give huge amounts of money the country can't afford to the wealthy in an implausible gamble that a small amount of this will "trickle-down" to the poor.

3. If you're poor, you're even more fu*ked than you were in the last 12-years of dire government mismanagement.

 

 

Edited by horsefly
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Re this not-a-budget budget, I am not an economist, but as someone says in Margin Call:

"These numbers don't add up. One and one no longer makes two."

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4 hours ago, Herman said:

 

As the poor in the country fret themselves into a state of utter despair at how they are going to find enough money to house, heat, feed, and clothe themselves this winter, those earning £200,000 a-year are wondering on what to spend the £30,000 extra that Kwasi has so kindly just gifted to them. The Tories are utterly morally bankrupt.

Edited by horsefly
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