New Tory Leader

[KiwiScot 1,436]

What stage do the tory MPs start voting down government bills or does that risk a GE

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

42 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I can’t make a definitive argument against anything you’ve said, which is incredibly depressing. The state of political debate in this country. It’s all about making a case to the lowest common denominator. 😔

 

What all this highlights is the problem with our FPTP system. In a more PR system there would be room for all views and parties could unambiguously stand on their beliefs (but yes they would have to compromise once elected to form a government with similarly minded parties).

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

6 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I don't know how the numbers are stacking up - I doubt anyone does apart perhaps from Graham Brady - but all these ministers and PPSs who have resigned are now backbench MPs, which could mean a no-confidence motion passes, if the rules are changed to allow that.

And as if BoJo doesn't have enough problems, poor dear, he has to fill all those ministerial etc vacancies, and may find few willing to tie themselves to his sinking ship.. A PM who cannot put together a government is a goner.

If I heard or inferred correctly this morning  - the existing 1922 committee might be thinking changing the rules NOW - say no year long 'rule' if 100 or 150 letters arrive 😉.

Johnson better start packing. 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

9 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

What stage do the tory MPs start voting down government bills or does that risk a GE

I always wonder what's to lose for SKS in going for a no-confidence vote in the government. Yes the Tories have a nominal 80 seat majority but they'd have to all file through the lobbies in open support of Johnson (as PM).

Not a good look and then they'd be all roped together and tied to the sinking ship.

I'd go for it. It's a win-win whatever the result.  

Edited July 6, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[1902 1,167]

16 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I don't know how the numbers are stacking up - I doubt anyone does apart perhaps from Graham Brady - but all these ministers and PPSs who have resigned are now backbench MPs, which could mean a no-confidence motion passes, if the rules are changed to allow that.

And as if BoJo doesn't have enough problems, poor dear, he has to fill all those ministerial etc vacancies, and may find few willing to tie themselves to his sinking ship.. A PM who cannot put together a government is a goner.

I doubt Brady knows as letters won't be going in now. I don't think there's a chance in hell that he has a majority in his parliamentary party though given the loss of two by-elections, another scandal, another lie after a scandal, plus the resignation of two senior ministers. 

The things is that Bojo is the kind of politician that rather than accept that he couldn't put together a government, would merge or remove positions until he had enough people to fit the roles. I think the idea that normal political ideas apply to Johnson doesn't stack up, that's his biggest strength and also his biggest weakness.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

9 minutes ago, 1902 said:

I doubt Brady knows as letters won't be going in now. I don't think there's a chance in hell that he has a majority in his parliamentary party though given the loss of two by-elections, another scandal, another lie after a scandal, plus the resignation of two senior ministers. 

The things is that Bojo is the kind of politician that rather than accept that he couldn't put together a government, would merge or remove positions until he had enough people to fit the roles. I think the idea that normal political ideas apply to Johnson doesn't stack up, that's his biggest strength and also his biggest weakness.

Absolutely. No normal politician would have lasted this long. in fact normally Johnson, with all his known flaws and lack of redeeming qualities, would never have become leader of the Tory party and so PM.

[sonyc 5,491]

34 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

What all this highlights is the problem with our FPTP system. In a more PR system there would be room for all views and parties could unambiguously stand on their beliefs (but yes they would have to compromise once elected to form a government with similarly minded parties).

Absolutely. My politics is an odd mix of Green, Lib Dem and Labour...I admit I have never voted Tory - and never will. But, I want to see progressive policies and that means a change away from FPTP, away from the 'yah boo' infantilism we get with two sides of the parliament screeching at each other.

When I watch the assemblies in Scotland and Wales at least you hear arguments and there is more respect somehow. It appears more mature. I realise we get to see PMQs which are pure theatre and more serious debate does take place.

I like the Scrutiny Committee process too. Clearly there are examples of cross party collaboration.

I would like to see the centre left far more joined up and yet the left of centre votes just get split up. The Tories simply take up all the right and right of centre and we end up with decades of Conservative rule.

You only need to look at the evidence and data to see the results of their rule. There is so much inequality in the UK. 

I realise I'm being simplistic here (and could go into the data in more depth) but a change in FPTP would make a massive positive difference to this country in the way it's structural problems are tackled and policies focussed more on the long term. We would have better debates on how things might be paid for - not electioneering about tax cuts or appeals to the lowest form of human nature.

Edited July 6, 2022 by sonyc

[horsefly 4,287]

57 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

I don't know how the numbers are stacking up - I doubt anyone does apart perhaps from Graham Brady - but all these ministers and PPSs who have resigned are now backbench MPs, which could mean a no-confidence motion passes, if the rules are changed to allow that.

And as if BoJo doesn't have enough problems, poor dear, he has to fill all those ministerial etc vacancies, and may find few willing to tie themselves to his sinking ship.. A PM who cannot put together a government is a goner.

I'm sure I heard Beth Rigby last night claim that something like 180 Tory MPs have come out against Johnson one way or another, and that number seems to be rising rapidly today. There's no chance he can survive this rebellion. As regards his ability to fill ministerial positions, I reckon he will just promote Nadine Dorries to become "Minister of Everything"

[sonyc 5,491]

 

 

 

[sonyc 5,491]

4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I'm sure I heard Beth Rigby last night claim that something like 180 Tory MPs have come out against Johnson one way or another, and that number seems to be rising rapidly today. There's no chance he can survive this rebellion. As regards his ability to fill ministerial positions, I reckon he will just promote Nadine Dorries to become "Minister of Everything"

 

[horsefly 4,287]

6 minutes ago, sonyc said:

 

 

 

Brilliant! I hope he has Queen's, "Another One Bites the Dust" lined up next. He could play it every time another minister resigns. Perhaps he should just leave it on repeat.

Edited July 6, 2022 by horsefly

[1902 1,167]

What do you reckon the chance of Ben Wallace ending up leader are?

[sonyc 5,491]

6 minutes ago, 1902 said:

What do you reckon the chance of Ben Wallace ending up leader are?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/05/who-are-the-favourites-to-succeed-boris-johnson

This was an interesting read this morning - Wallace may be an interesting proposition as well as Mordaunt. 

Apart from the likes of Truss, Mogg, Patel, Dorries (and their ilk) then any change in leader must look better to Tory voters. 

[horsefly 4,287]

2 minutes ago, 1902 said:

What do you reckon the chance of Ben Wallace ending up leader are?

Back in April I suggested he might be the surprise replacement for Johnson. He has handled his portfolio very well and has managed to keep a reasonable distance from the sycophancy of many of his cabinet colleagues. The Tories tend to eschew the individual(s) who brings a PM down (e.g. Heseltine), so I think that boosts his chances against Sunak and Javid considerably.

[horsefly 4,287]

Jess Phillips tearing it up on Politics Live.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

7 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Jess Phillips tearing it up on Politics Live.

She would make an excellent replacement for Johnson! 😄

[TheRock 155]

How has this waste of space managed to become Chancellor? 🤮 Never forget this:

https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1349116738454122499

Edited July 6, 2022 by TheRock

[TheRock 155]

53 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I'm sure I heard Beth Rigby last night claim that something like 180 Tory MPs have come out against Johnson one way or another, and that number seems to be rising rapidly today. There's no chance he can survive this rebellion. As regards his ability to fill ministerial positions, I reckon he will just promote Nadine Dorries to become "Minister of Everything"

 

Dorries is an embarrasment and in my opinion, she everything that is wrong with our Political system insomuch that she seems to blindly defend everything Johnson does...

Every time she speaks, they Tories must lose votes, she's a bit like Dianne Abbott in that sense. 😂

[1902 1,167]

2 minutes ago, TheRock said:

How has this waste of space managed to become Chancellor? 🤮 Never forget this:

https://twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1349116738454122499

Zahawi is a sycophantic, lying toad. However, he can also handle a brief with relative competence and discretion. Whether he can do that with more scrutiny will be interesting to see in the least. Really, of his remaining options he was his best bet.

 

23 minutes ago, sonyc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/05/who-are-the-favourites-to-succeed-boris-johnson

This was an interesting read this morning - Wallace may be an interesting proposition as well as Mordaunt. 

Apart from the likes of Truss, Mogg, Patel, Dorries (and their ilk) then any change in leader must look better to Tory voters. 

He is also the only one who can reasonably (and tbh, I would agree) claim that the current geopolitical situation would make a resignation irresponsible.

[horsefly 4,287]

Starmer wiping the floor with Johnson.

[1902 1,167]

Just now, horsefly said:

Starmer wiping the floor with Johnson.

So would anybody today.

[sonyc 5,491]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Starmer wiping the floor with Johnson.

It's the best I've ever seen him. Angry, controlled and forensic. If a football match it is 5-0 at least 

[benchwarmer 624]

More ministerial resignations this morning.  16 in total so far.

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

Can we have an extra bank holiday day care of Queeny to celebrate (the end of) Boris Johnson day - along the lines of Guy Fawkes and November the 5th? I think we'll all deserve it, Queeny included.

[Nuff Said 5,089]

16 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Can we have an extra bank holiday day care of Queeny to celebrate (the end of) Boris Johnson day - along the lines of Guy Fawkes and November the 5th? I think we'll all deserve it, Queeny included.

 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

What all this highlights is the problem with our FPTP system. In a more PR system there would be room for all views and parties could unambiguously stand on their beliefs (but yes they would have to compromise once elected to form a government with similarly minded parties).

I agree, I think we’re crying out for proportional representation of some sort, although which system is best is a whole other debate. We even have a second chamber, possibly the most anachronistic piece of government in the first world (although maybe the US constitution/Supreme Court could be up there too with recent events) begging to be replaced by something a tiny bit more up to date.

 

However, opponents (chiefly Tories as they are the ones who benefit most from FPTP) will be out shouting about a coalition of chaos and handing control to the SNP. I suppose it’s fortunate (?) that actually Johnson has done more to promote chaos and strengthen the SNP than PR ever could. There would be a Brexit-like campaign of lies and misinformation all over again if put to a referendum. Possibly Clegg’s biggest failure when in government, and he has plenty to choose from. It would need to be promoted SO much better next time, all the Tory 4rse-lickers in the media will be out to kill it.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

If somehow there is a firm decision made by the 1922 Committee this evening, not including a vote, then surely he will be ousted. Nobody gives a monkeys about Ministers who get an earner. Its the backbenchers who may well issue a collective statement.

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

If somehow there is a firm decision made by the 1922 Committee this evening, not including a vote, then surely he will be ousted. Nobody gives a monkeys about Ministers who get an earner. Its the backbenchers who may well issue a collective statement.

This is I'm sure now what will happen - the existing 1922 committee will act to change the rules asap and then its all over for Johnson and his floozies. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

4 hours ago, SteveN8458 said:

I'm sorry, but he will NEVER resign.

So for him to go there will need to be a rule change in the Conservative Party & they have too many noses in the trough atm

I'm interested as to whether a rule change will go through. What MP who's a potential leader will want to wave in the possibility of weekly VNCs?

[sonyc 5,491]

In relation to the most recent debate on this thread, this is interesting...

Johnson looks like he will carry on fighting