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11 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

What do you want then? A new industrial revolution. Factories?

 

The point is we need to balance our income with our expenditure else eventually it will all end in tears as the bailiffs come (or the loan sharks aka 'the markets' as Truss found out).We actually have 'balance of payments crisis' that underlies all our problems.

We are not the USA that has debts denominated largely in dollars (hence they can just print them) so yes we need to either export more goods and services or buy less good and services from abroad - TVs, phones, cars and so on. A collapse in sterling will help sort that. 

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Actually our debt, whilst monumental is not as big as most of  Europe.

The French dont't mind debt as much as we seem to. The Italians have been under the cosh for years. and even the Germans are piling it up.

Sunak balances debt interest payments (billions) against money we can spend on the welfare state. Of course that is right, but you need growth, not taxes to achieve this.

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44 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Actually our debt, whilst monumental is not as big as most of  Europe.

The French dont't mind debt as much as we seem to. The Italians have been under the cosh for years. and even the Germans are piling it up.

Sunak balances debt interest payments (billions) against money we can spend on the welfare state. Of course that is right, but you need growth, not taxes to achieve this.

I will risk joining this part of the thread (but fear I will be told I'm stupid) ...but my thinking had always been to match the right skills to the needs of the economy (both now, but more importantly, our future requirements). To do that we need a more efficient way of matching supply and demand of labour. Once that is approached we work on ways to improve productivity. Matching demand and supply though (in a planned way - industrial / employment strategy) will go quite a long way to improving productivity beause the right skills will begin to be put into place. Our system has always been stop/start (the problem in a politics that doesn't have a long term / cooperative vision) and also a belief that the market will simply provide the answer. The market cannot by itself. We need some big state decisions (for want of a better word) and then allow / support for the innovation. There is a case for a massive job creation scheme (funded by taxation) but geared up for future economic gain and competitive advantage. I am talking about the sciences and some manufacturing in particular (ideal if green). 

I am trying not to get into an argument about left or right but what is needed. Our education system is very poorly aligned to the needs of our economy. That isn't an attack on schools but upon the system which connects the pipeline of potential talent to really good jobs.

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I had to pick up something I ordered from Homebase. While in the queue, a lady in front said to the cashier that it was so quiet (the Homebase is in Truro). The cashier said it has been like it for a while and she was happy because they are so short of staff.

Its a real conundrum if there is such low unemployment.

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3 hours ago, Well b back said:

One rule for one, one rule for the other. I don’t agree with what this guy did, and I do agree with the prison sentence, but how come no one from Downing Street was put in prison ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-63570308

The boring answer is that there was no hint that anyone in downing street committed an imprisonable offence.

The longer answer is that the guy got locked up for perverting the course of justice not for opening his business in breach of coronavirus regulations. It probably didn't help that he pleaded not guilty and ran a ludicrous defence that even people that think Mrs Brown's Boys is funny would have struggled to believe.

Come to think of it he probably could have run a successful insanity defence if there was evidence he likes MBB.

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44 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

The boring answer is that there was no hint that anyone in downing street committed an imprisonable offence.

The longer answer is that the guy got locked up for perverting the course of justice not for opening his business in breach of coronavirus regulations. It probably didn't help that he pleaded not guilty and ran a ludicrous defence that even people that think Mrs Brown's Boys is funny would have struggled to believe.

Come to think of it he probably could have run a successful insanity defence if there was evidence he likes MBB.

Sounds a bit like Downing Street to me the lying f******

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16 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I had to pick up something I ordered from Homebase. While in the queue, a lady in front said to the cashier that it was so quiet (the Homebase is in Truro). The cashier said it has been like it for a while and she was happy because they are so short of staff.

Its a real conundrum if there is such low unemployment.

How about if we had freedom of moment in Europe, and people filled all the job vacancies, and then paid taxes, thus bringing in more money to the exchequer?

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39 minutes ago, dj11 said:

How about if we had freedom of moment in Europe, and people filled all the job vacancies, and then paid taxes, thus bringing in more money to the exchequer?

I just heard that Lord Wollfson, chief brexiter, is calling for something along these lines. 🤨

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1 hour ago, dj11 said:

How about if we had freedom of moment in Europe, and people filled all the job vacancies, and then paid taxes, thus bringing in more money to the exchequer?

 

19 minutes ago, Herman said:

I just heard that Lord Wollfson, chief brexiter, is calling for something along these lines. 🤨

Of course that would be sensible - promote growth and taxes and people with a similar cultural background (dare I say identity). Easy to integrate.

Sadly immigration, any immigration,  is exactly what the majority of Brexiteers were opposed to (hence the target of only a few tens of thousands). Yes we need highly paid doctors and engineers (let alone nurses) but also lots of more lowly paid fruit/veg pickers and hospitality workers.

Edited by Yellow Fever
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5 hours ago, Herman said:

I just heard that Lord Wollfson, chief brexiter, is calling for something along these lines. 🤨

In that case he shouldn't have voted for Brexit. With all the rabid speeches and posters about taking back control of immigration what kind of Brexit did he think people were going to vote for and expect to get?

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50 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

In that case he shouldn't have voted for Brexit. With all the rabid speeches and posters about taking back control of immigration what kind of Brexit did he think people were going to vote for and expect to get?

He's says it's not the brexit he wanted. 

We say it's exactly the brexit we were expecting. And that is why we have made a lot of noise about it. 

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Wonder if the likes of Lord Wolfson ever thought of paying staff a bit more then? Or was he using foreign labour as a means of undercutting British workers whilst keeping profits inflated?

Edited by TheGunnShow
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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

In that case he shouldn't have voted for Brexit. With all the rabid speeches and posters about taking back control of immigration what kind of Brexit did he think people were going to vote for and expect to get?

I voted Brexit, but the reason was that I listened to and believed a pack of lies from Johnson, Farage Mogg etc and more importantly my own MP who convinced me there were British people that NEEDED these jobs. As I can’t have another vote on Brexit I will be doing everything in my power to oust my MP at the next GE.

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2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Wonder if the likes of Lord Wolfson ever thought of paying staff a bit more then? Or was he using foreign labour as a means of undercutting British workers whilst keeping profits inflated?

Indeed

As you maybe aware I work in the NHS and whats happening there brings this point to the fore. Brexit meant we kicked our European friends out of the NHS with the promise of £350 million a week ( which we now know was never going to happen ) and that these jobs would be replaced by Brits. Of course in reality Brits didn’t want to work for between £9.50 and £11.00 per hour as health care assistant’s when they can earn between £15 and £20 an hour in Lidls. Likewise those looking at becoming nurses don’t want to be working for less than they could get working in Lidls, so as nobody joined to replace our European friends, and others left in their droves, those that remain have to work 12 hour shifts 7 days per week. They are exhausted. Of course all this leaves a gap of about 138,000 people in the NHS. So what have we done to fill this gap, we change recruiting from Europe, to Africa, Asia and the Americas.

Based on my experience of seeing this I have to think even most of those Brexit voters that wanted our borders closed to migrants, have been conned. I also believe that racism will increase towards those coming in now from the said mentioned continents.

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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/11/dominic-raab-behaviour-moj-staff-offered-route-out?

The current main story in the Guardian but I've heard that his kind of behaviour is not unusual - intimidating, rude, insulting and menacing ... And indicates the culture created by some cabinet ministers in the post Johnson period. 

I'm guessing a kind of hatred or perhaps profound dislike of the civil service sits behind such behaviour. Gavin Williamson was also a nasty piece of work with fellow politicians.

 

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9 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

He could play second row for England yet was bullied by Truss? I wouldn't have dared say that.

True enough, but I don't think anyone has ever accused KamiKwasi of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

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4 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

True enough, but I don't think anyone has ever accused KamiKwasi of being the sharpest knife in the drawer.

He wouldn't even be the sharpest spoon.

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1 minute ago, Icecream Snow said:

Hunt's plan seems suspiciously cut and pasted from the Labour manifesto

What Labour manifesto? Hasn't been one published since 2019.

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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On 11/11/2022 at 18:11, sonyc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/nov/11/dominic-raab-behaviour-moj-staff-offered-route-out?

The current main story in the Guardian but I've heard that his kind of behaviour is not unusual - intimidating, rude, insulting and menacing ... And indicates the culture created by some cabinet ministers in the post Johnson period. 

I'm guessing a kind of hatred or perhaps profound dislike of the civil service sits behind such behaviour. Gavin Williamson was also a nasty piece of work with fellow politicians.

 

Regardless of who's in government, civil servants are a bloody nightmare for politicians. Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister may have been satire, but they were also very insightful in how the civil service is very good at manipulating situations to make things work the way they want to rather than the way elected poltiicians want to. Putting in accusations like this might be legitimate, but can just as easily be about senior civil servants creating bad press for politicians they find inconvenient to get them out of their way.

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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10 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

What Labour manifesto? Hasn't been one published since 2019.

 

Nice Trumpism, I am sure he meant the ideas put forward by the Labour Party that they said they would implement. You forget to mention they are in opposition so they can’t really put forward a manifesto that would be used. 

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1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Nice Trumpism, I am sure he meant the ideas put forward by the Labour Party that they said they would implement. You forget to mention they are in opposition so they can’t really put forward a manifesto that would be used. 

A manifesto is a document which tells you what party would do should they win the next election. You don't get elected and then tell people what you are going to do.

They'll have to think of some new ideas won't they.

ps. No horse in this race, as I won't be voting for either party.

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