New Tory Leader

[benchwarmer 625]

Sajid Javid is conspicuous by his absence from the new cabinet.  Probably not for long though. This crowd isn't who Rishi Sunak would ideally want, but he will probably let things settle for a few months until an opportunity arises for a reshuffle.

Edited October 26, 2022 by benchwarmer

[benchwarmer 625]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

This article is bang on about where we have gone as a country. Well worth a couple of minutes of your time.

 

"Take out Greater London - the prosperity of which depends to an uncomfortable degree on the provision of financial services to Middle Eastern potentates and oligarchs from the former Soviet Union - and the UK economy is one of the poorest in western Europe."

It's a key reason why the seat of government needs to be well away from the seat of commerce, as in many other mature democracies - the US, Germany, the Netherlands, Australia, Canada etc.  Instead they're spending billions on refurbishing the Houses of Parliament, which was out of date almost as soon as it was built. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Yellow Fever 3,771]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

This article is bang on about where we have gone as a country. Well worth a couple of minutes of your time.

 

Wow - I could have written that myself. Same themes as many comments.

Only thing to add vs the 'City' is that it has totally unbalanced and actually damaged our economy - now, if you want to get 'rich' quick go into the city & finance. I recall that even 20 years ago being told that 50% of UK trained electronic engineering graduates went there. Engineering money was much more profitable and simpler than engineering exportable gadgets.

We need a proper manufacturing base and industrial strategy and not to be so reliant on the 'City'. Take a look at almost any of our G7 competitors  - they actually maintain a strong innovative manufacturing base which their financial centres serve not enslave. 

Anyway - it seems like all the issues in the article as described are actually finally coming home to roost. It's the end of get rich quick and blame everybody else years. As they describe -  "A cohort of older, middle-class, grievously nostalgic voters demanded Brexit, and they got it."

[Yellow Fever 3,771]

10 hours ago, Well b back said:

Hang on I was taking the p*** as you said the crash was nothing to do with the U.K. and it was all to do with world events. 
We don’t do Trumpism anymore, either they both were or they both weren’t. The reason the U.K. lost 65 billion was Liz Truss, the reason why the U.K. got 25 billion of that back was Rishi Sunak.

Agree WBB. People cant argue it both ways.

Whereas we all accept there are some global factors at play holding the USD strong (flight to safety) there are also some strong local factors such as Brexit and the recent inept government policies that nobody honest would deny that have also 'crashed' the pound. The recent small uptick is simply a hope that the lunatics have now left the park. 

[Barbe bleu 823]

13 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Th NI protocol cannot really be too strict can it. Its either there or it isn't. Eventually, it will have to go. There cannot be a hard border and there is no other way that isn't clumsy and unworkable. Until Ireland is one country is maybe a long way off but in reality has to be the ultimate goal.

Baker has been very conciliatory recently but I do not trust him. His ultimate goal is to marginalise the UK. Now I would agree to that if we gave up all holds on Commonwealth countries, stop interfering in foreign wars, just call ourselves Britain, give back the Elgin Marbles etc. Just like the NI protocol, there is no compromise.

Disband the commonwealth

Campaign for the dissolution of Northern Ireland and the handover of territory to Eire

Drop the 'Great' in 'Great Britain'

Hand over the Elgin marbles 

Stop arming ukraine

 

I'm not expecting these to be on the Labour manifesto! 

[ricardo 7,384]

10 hours ago, Well b back said:

We don’t do Trumpism anymore, either they both were or they both weren’t. The reason the U.K. lost 65 billion was Liz Truss, the reason why the U.K. got 25 billion of that back was Rishi Sunak.

Dear oh dear, do a bit of research the Bank of England committed to spend 65 billion on Gilt purchases but actually spent only 3.7 billion. The idea we lost 65 billion is nonsense.

[ricardo 7,384]

46 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Agree WBB. People cant argue it both ways.

Whereas we all accept there are some global factors at play holding the USD strong (flight to safety) there are also some strong local factors such as Brexit and the recent inept government policies that nobody honest would deny that have also 'crashed' the pound. The recent small uptick is simply a hope that the lunatics have now left the park. 

The quid is around 20% down on the dollar since a year ago. Its marginally down against the Euro and marginally up against the Yen over the same time period. So if theyve crashed the pound, they've crashed everyone elses currencies as well. 

Long reach.

[Yellow Fever 3,771]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

The quid is around 20% down on the dollar since a year ago. Its marginally down against the Euro and marginally up against the Yen over the same time period. So if theyve crashed the pound, they've crashed everyone elses currencies as well. 

Long reach.

That's pure whataboutery Ricardo.

All currencies have their own 'local' issues to deal with - the EU (or many of it constituents parts) are more exposed to Russia than others i.e. us. - the issues with Japan are well known and their very recent changes. What about other major currencies - CAD, AUD etc.

Simply if we had had a sensible government the pound would likely be stronger - unless you are arguing that our local politicians have no control and Brexit was pure myth! Perhaps you are 😉

Similarly on WBB's point. Yes the BoE didn't have to spend anything like its £65Bn it set aside - but it was prepared too! In the event what Truss and her antics has cost the UK is actually a lot more than the £65Bn - there is now an extra 'risk' premium' built into UK borrowing (and mortgages) simply due to lost credibility that will take some time to unwind and restore even with a more sensible economically sound government place. 

By the way I sold a few dollars at 1.106 a week or so ago. Quite happy with that.

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[Yellow Fever 3,771]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Disband the commonwealth.  Commonwealth is a useful 'talk-shop' but really of little to zero economic help to the UK. It's more of a post-empire sweetener for many. 

Campaign for the dissolution of Northern Ireland and the handover of territory to Eire. That's what the Good Friday Agreement pretty much agrees with when the locals want it.

Drop the 'Great' in 'Great Britain' :  Many (most) people don't realize it only refers to the largest of the two islands of Britain - it doesn't mean 'Great' as in having a 'great' past.

Hand over the Elgin marbles : That is looking more and more likely to a happen anyway. Advanced discussions if I recall on the radio a few months ago. We may loan them back or get very good copies. 

Stop arming ukraine : It's not and never was on the Labour manifesto. Is it on the Tories ?

 

I'm not expecting these to be on the Labour manifesto! 

Hi BB.

Added a few comments above your points

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Disband the commonwealth

Campaign for the dissolution of Northern Ireland and the handover of territory to Eire

Drop the 'Great' in 'Great Britain'

Hand over the Elgin marbles 

Stop arming ukraine

 

I'm not expecting these to be on the Labour manifesto! 

 

I very much doubt it. SKS believes he has all his familiar voters back and a few new ones from the centre right. And no wonder. He is marginally different. What policy has he told us will help the economy. He keeps saying we will this and we will that. Boris said that.

Tell the bleddy voters that the Government has to stop borrowing for a while and certain unpopular policies will take over. We do need growth. Not by tax cuts but by revitalising the economy. Small companies need access to loans at low interest rates. Train more police, doctors and nurses instead of just promising. Fill in all the bleddy potholes in our streets. I could go on.

Here is one I forgot. Stop all the Lotteries for a while. Then some of the poorer people might have a bit more money in their pockets. I witnessed a woman last week, cash in a scratchcard for a reasonably decent amount and then use the winnings plus another tenner to buy some more.

Unless SKS gives us something different, which Corbyn at least offered, then he will just morph like Doctor Who into another grey man in a grey suit.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

19 hours ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

I actually thought Rishi might have had better judgement than that. More ammo for the opposition I guess.

Yep, I posted on Monday that my one hope was that Sunak wouldn't follow Johnson's and Truss's horrible examples in selecting their Cabinets and would appoint his Cabinet purely on the basis of ability and experience  - not that there is much available in the current Tory Party but all the more reason to make use of what little there is, I would have thought.

I suppose it was always a bit of a forlorn hope and so it has proved. Good to see that commonsense has prevailed with regard to fracking but more generally I think Sunak has set himself up to fail with a Cabinet largely made up of 3rd & 4th rate politicians who should be nowhere near a ministerial post never mind a Cabinet one.

[benchwarmer 625]

The reappointment of Suella Braverman was probably Rishi Sunak's most difficult decision.  For a Home Secretary to have committed a security breach is more serious than for most other ministers: if he'd appointed her to a different post he might have got away with it. 

But he wouldn't want to make it look as though he doesn't share her hardline approach to illegal immigration, in case it gives Party members with a racist agenda an opportunity to question his loyalty to Britain.  Very tricky.

Edited October 26, 2022 by benchwarmer

[benchwarmer 625]

Latest news: the moratorium on fracking lifted by Liz Truss has been reinstated by Rishi Sunak.

[Well b back 3,201]

Dave Penman, General Secretary of the FDA, the Civil Servant's union, feels Sunak and his government is "trying to brush over it" but told the BBC News Channel her breach raises questions about Braverman's security clearance.

"Suella Braverman resigned a week ago for sharing confidential documents," he says.

"If a civil servant had done that, they would likely be sacked but they would also face their security clearance being withdrawn

"What is really critical is that this was a deliberate act - this is not something by accident. 

"She was deliberately sharing information outside of government, deliberately doing that from her personal email account. 

"These things are not allowed and they are not allowed for a reason."

[Barbe bleu 823]

8 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Dave Penman, General Secretary of the FDA, the Civil Servant's union, feels Sunak and his government is "trying to brush over it" but told the BBC News Channel her breach raises questions about Braverman's security clearance.

"Suella Braverman resigned a week ago for sharing confidential documents," he says.

"If a civil servant had done that, they would likely be sacked but they would also face their security clearance being withdrawn

"What is really critical is that this was a deliberate act - this is not something by accident. 

"She was deliberately sharing information outside of government, deliberately doing that from her personal email account. 

"These things are not allowed and they are not allowed for a reason."

Do we know the classification of the docs that were shared?  There is a massive difference between sharing secret or top secret files and sharing official or even official-sensitive ones.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Do we know the classification of the docs that were shared?  There is a massive difference between sharing secret or top secret files and sharing official or even official-sensitive ones.

Not sure that it does matter that much, the point is that she is not supposed to use her personal email account for government business and irrespective which document she actually sent using it just having an active personal email account on a device that also contains official documents is a big security risk to everything on that device.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

 

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Creative Midfielder
Duplicate post

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Do we know the classification of the docs that were shared?  There is a massive difference between sharing secret or top secret files and sharing official or even official-sensitive ones.

I understand from TV reports that the documents were ones that would need to be approved by Cabinet and had not actually been put to Cabinet. Not particularly state secrets but the code had been ignored.

[KiwiScot 1,443]

She looked very smug while the PM defended her. She enjoys being a ****.

[ricardo 7,384]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

 

Can't argue with that.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Can't argue with that.

You're not reading between the lines though

[Barbe bleu 823]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I understand from TV reports that the documents were ones that would need to be approved by Cabinet and had not actually been put to Cabinet. Not particularly state secrets but the code had been ignored.

OK, cheers

[Van wink 2,994]

31 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

You're not reading between the lines though

Its crystal clear to me

[Barbe bleu 823]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Not sure that it does matter that much, the point is that she is not supposed to use her personal email account for government business and irrespective which document she actually sent using it just having an active personal email account on a device that also contains official documents is a big security risk to everything on that device.

You may well be right about the IT rules they have, I wouldn't know.

I was wondering more about the sharing bit than the IT side.  The report said it was 'confidential' which had me wondering if she was carelessly sharing secrets.  That would be massive.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Barbe bleu

[sonyc 5,511]

15 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

You may well be right about the IT rules they have, I wouldn't know.

I was wondering more about the sharing bit than the IT side.  The report said it was 'confidential' which had me wondering if she was carelessly sharing secrets.  That would be massive.

I think you might be missing the (massive) point BB:

(a) This was a Home Secretary.

(b) It was a deliberate act. 

Not sure what other sides to the matter there are. If you or I had done this in any corporate world, holding a senior position I imagine we would have been dismissed.

 

 

 

Jeez (to use today's way of speaking), standards are dropping everywhere

 

[Well b back 3,201]

10 hours ago, ricardo said:

Dear oh dear, do a bit of research the Bank of England committed to spend 65 billion on Gilt purchases but actually spent only 3.7 billion. The idea we lost 65 billion is nonsense.

Please read your post that’s not what you said and we were talking about what happened after the mini budget, which you insisted was a world thing. The £65 billion was a U.K. thing. 
Like I have said I don’t do Trumpism anymore. The facts in this case are very simple, Liz Truss in 44 days or whatever it was cost the U.K. economy £65 billion. As soon as those were reversed, that figure reduced by approx £25 billion still a £40 billion hole. 
All of that has absoloutely diddly squat with what is happening elsewhere unlike the original drops that were to do with the world economy.

[Well b back 3,201]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Do we know the classification of the docs that were shared?  There is a massive difference between sharing secret or top secret files and sharing official or even official-sensitive ones.

I believe that Labour and Lib Dems have written a freedom of information request to ask the very same. I may have misunderstood, but those like David Penman whom you would assume has ‘ inside info ‘ seem to think anyone else would have been banned from being licensed. 
Would Sunak not have just said what it was if it wasn’t serious ? Yet on the other side if it is something really bad has Sunak not just committed Political suicide ie trust me there will be no more dodgy anything, but that only applies to anyone not a Conservative MP. In the publics eyes he will look like Johnson mk2 straightaway.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

23 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I think you might be missing the (massive) point BB:

(a) This was a Home Secretary.

(b) It was a deliberate act. 

Not sure what other sides to the matter there are. If you or I had done this in any corporate world, holding a senior position I imagine we would have been dismissed.

 

 

 

Jeez (to use today's way of speaking), standards are dropping everywhere

 

Absolutely 

Very deliberate and on purpose, in my view, so that she could resign and embarrass Truss 

For that reason, I doubt the document was important 

[Yellow Fever 3,771]

It's my observation over many years that there are many politicians (and Braverman is far from the first) that think the rules about secure, confidential or secret documents somehow don't apply to them.

In all the scenarios I can think of with business confidentiality, medical records to official secrets; being slapdash with such documents is a serious dismissible offence and in the case of official secret documents possibly a criminal offence.

I also recall that Gavin Williamson was also slapdash in the past.

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Can't argue with that.

Quite right, I should try it more often 😀