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2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Her position is already untenable - her flagship policy already branded foolish, inept, naive by the markets. I suspect Sunak has a wry smile and desperately tries not to say 'Told you so'.

Stupid is as stupid does. All 160,000 of them.

I'm sure he is YF.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that Friday's act of gross economic vandalism is going to be ruinous for the majority.

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Anybody seen Truss ? Is she in hiding.

Best to check the fridges, garden shes, ditches.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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21 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Anybody seen Truss ? Is she in hiding.

Best to check the fridges, garden shes, ditches.

I've just worked out on what she spent £1,800 in the Canary shop. No one's going to spot her inside this:

See the source image

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17 hours ago, 1902 said:

True up to a point. However I think this is a little simplistic. The UK in 2015 was a country with a reputation for paying it's bills, having a respect for international agreements, being an open economy, with a political system which tended to favour stability.

What Brexit has done economically is to restrict options and make it harder for the UK to capitalise on export opportunities that come from a weak pound. 

What it has done politically is far more damaging. It created an almost revolutionary zeal amongst part of the conservative party, and like all revolutions it trended towards purity over compromise in the first few years. That's led to a succession of incompetent leaders, a hostile attitude to foreign partners and an unstable political environment where prime minister's last 18 months and policy changes dramatically at every turn.

Brexit is not the cause, but it is unlikely that this budget in 2015 would have had British bonds trading lower with Italy and the principle cause of that erosion in trust in the British economy is that the previously sober (by the standards of political establishments) attitude of the UKs politics has been undone by the phenomena that is Brexit.

There's also a fair bit of simplification in this post itself. Up until this week, the UK was still a country with a reputation for paying its bills, having a respect for international agreements (CPTPP accession process would not be happening without that), being an open economy (arguably far too open given most of our utilities and public transport are foreign-owned). 

The second paragraph is fair, although that neglects that a drop in the pound would never have created gains to offset the huge export deficit to Europe either way, or that the losses to the UK economy of a weak pound as a net importer knock that into insignificance. 

Third paragraph is all about the Conservative party's internal fighting; not Brexit itself. Brexit has massively divided people in the UK and that's the single biggest negative effect of the exercise. 

Brexit has had little impact on trust in the UK outside of the EU; what we're seeing this week is loss of global trust in the fiscal competence of the Conservative party, not the UK. That's an important distinction. 

To reiterate my original point, Kwarteng's announcement has done more damage to global confidence in the UK economy than the whole Brexit process did over years of uncertainty. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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2 hours ago, horsefly said:

I've just worked out on what she spent £1,800 in the Canary shop. No one's going to spot her inside this:

See the source image

Oddly - As with Johnson - I expect its things like this that might actually destroy Truss.

It's very difficult to see why the Foreign Office was spending such large sums of money on in the Canary Shop.

Directors box for foreign visiting dignitaries perhaps - somebody must know?

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52 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Remember this - Didn't age well

Trusted to deliver what exactly - Disaster it seems

Fergus Butler-Gallie on Twitter: "Number 7- Liz Truss. The ...

Give it a couple of months, I think this is what they had in mind:

 

Truss1.jpg

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If I heard correctly this morning - so far Liz Truss's government has COST the UK £500Bn pounds.

£500,000,000,000 in just 19 days!

Wow.

Pound now in a vertical dive again 6pm.

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6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

If I heard correctly this morning - so far Liz Truss's government has COST the UK £500Bn pounds.

£500,000,000,000 in just 19 days!

Wow.

Pound now in a vertical dive again 6pm.

Yep.

 

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For anyone in any doubt about what Truss and Kwateng are doing to our Country I suggest you read this, it’s quite damming and in fact quite scary. It also seems there were a number of lies and cover ups on Friday and over the weekend. If journalists and The BOE knew what the OBS thoughts were, it is unlikely Truss didn’t.

Probably just wasted a fiver but I have just had a bet at 18/1 Truss will be gone by 31/12/22, that was 100/1 yesterday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63049044

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Plenty of bankers will be earning huge bonuses ( now their cap has been released ) by helping bring the pound lower. Funny old world, those you thought were your friends, stabbing you in the back.

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On 21/09/2022 at 12:44, 1902 said:

Ok, sorry for the late response but I never got notifications for replies. 

Abnormal profits based on bizarre geopolitical events do not factor in for companies making long term business decisions. They are just that 'windfalls'. Therefore tax on abnormal profit doesn't deter investment in the same way that normal taxes on gains can. 

The Spanish empire collapsed because it didn't understand inflation, not primarily because of taxation.

 

Pretty much every history of the decline of the Spanish empire will examine the impacts of taxation, trust in government/the crown and, yes, inflation due to colonial asset stripping on investment.

Interesting that we were having this conversation just a few days before the government went so far down this road.

To the more specific point I actually favour the windfall tax the last administration brought in on energy producers in the North sea. My point was more that a government can only press the windfall button so may times and only so hard before it drives investment into other places and other things. The art is in knowing when to stop.

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13 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Pretty much every history of the decline of the Spanish empire will examine the impacts of taxation, trust in government/the crown and, yes, inflation due to colonial asset stripping on investment.

Interesting that we were having this conversation just a few days before the government went so far down this road.

To the more specific point I actually favour the windfall tax the last administration brought in on energy producers in the North sea. My point was more that a government can only press the windfall button so may times and only so hard before it drives investment into other places and other things. The art is in knowing when to stop.

I am sure all those company directors will be happy to receive their extra £55,000 in tax incentives. Personally they will be better off.

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24 minutes ago, Well b back said:

IMF wading in now.

From the Independent:

 

"Commentators noted that the IMF’s wording closely resembled warnings it typically gives to emergency economies in the throes of a current account crisis. This comes after Larry Summers, a former US treasury secretary, accused Britain of “behaving a bit like an emerging market turning itself into a submerging market”.

 

Serious stuff.

An incredible thing to have done within the first 20 days of your premiership. You move to try and cap energy costs to help families and then follow up a week later with measures that really kick them where it hurts. You undermine confidence in you and unite a country against you.

Quite incredible.

 

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17 minutes ago, sonyc said:

From the Independent:

 

"Commentators noted that the IMF’s wording closely resembled warnings it typically gives to emergency economies in the throes of a current account crisis. This comes after Larry Summers, a former US treasury secretary, accused Britain of “behaving a bit like an emerging market turning itself into a submerging market”.

 

Serious stuff.

An incredible thing to have done within the first 20 days of your premiership. You move to try and cap energy costs to help families and then follow up a week later with measures that really kick them where it hurts. You undermine confidence in you and unite a country against you.

Quite incredible.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63051702

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2 hours ago, Well b back said:

I am sure all those company directors will be happy to receive their extra £55,000 in tax incentives. Personally they will be better off.

Yes, they probably will.  I hope that whatever they save in tax gets invested in ventures with a wide benefit. I'm not convinced but then economics is not really a science so I don't suppose anyone will really know for some years to come, perhaps ever.

Did you mean to address this comment to me though? It's a bit removed from North Sea oil windfall taxes and 17th Century Spain! 

Edited by Barbe bleu

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This is what the IMF had to say about cutting the top rate of tax:

A spokesman for the Washington DC-based organisation said Mr Kwarteng's announcement in November would “present an early opportunity for the UK Government to consider ways to provide support that is more targeted and reevaluate the tax measures, especially those that benefit high-income earners”.

The tax measure amounts to £2B per year, which is chicken feed for an economy like ours. Compare this to the £41B that the UK gives to Scotland each year and you can see it in context.

 

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4 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

This is what the IMF had to say about cutting the top rate of tax:

A spokesman for the Washington DC-based organisation said Mr Kwarteng's announcement in November would “present an early opportunity for the UK Government to consider ways to provide support that is more targeted and reevaluate the tax measures, especially those that benefit high-income earners”.

The tax measure amounts to £2B per year, which is chicken feed for an economy like ours. Compare this to the £41B that the UK gives to Scotland each year and you can see it in context.

 

That's a terrible comparison, wasting money on tax cuts for the rich is not in any way related to the money given to Scotland under the Barnet formula.

 

Edited by A Load of Squit

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30 minutes ago, Herman said:

Turns out the IMF are a bunch of old lefties. Unbelievable.😀

 

Haha! This is now the standard childish Tory RWNJ response when any organisation points out the stupidity of Tory policy. E.g., the EU demanded that the government implements the NI protocol, so the RWNJs demand we withdraw from the agreement. Throwing their toys out of the pram is now standard practice.

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6 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

This is what the IMF had to say about cutting the top rate of tax:

A spokesman for the Washington DC-based organisation said Mr Kwarteng's announcement in November would “present an early opportunity for the UK Government to consider ways to provide support that is more targeted and reevaluate the tax measures, especially those that benefit high-income earners”.

The tax measure amounts to £2B per year, which is chicken feed for an economy like ours. Compare this to the £41B that the UK gives to Scotland each year and you can see it in context.

 

Jesus! You plummet to new levels of shameless economic illiteracy on a daily basis. Why not compare the Truss tax cuts to the NHS budget of £190bn, or the defence budget of £54bn? It's because comparing reckless and unfunded tax cuts for the rich with necessary (funded) spending on essential services and investment is utterly absurd.

 A much better comparison is your grasp of economics with Jack's grasp that the family cow is worth a handful of beans. Sadly for you the world is not governed by fairy tale magic but economic reality. Sadly for the people of this country Truss' reckless gambling will cost many billions more than the money she has just shoved into the top pockets of her rich mates. As the pound plummets and interest rates rise, it will be ordinary people who bear the burden of the tens of billions Tory economic recklessness is costing the country.

Edited by horsefly
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