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You can choose your source but this seems as good as any.

Pound now down over 3% touching $1.09. I think the markets have already spoken. Thumbs down I'm afraid 👎

 

Pound may tumble below $1 on ‘naive’ UK policies, warns former US Treasury secretary

Former US Treasury Secretary Lawrence Summers has blasted the economic policies being adopted by Liz Truss, and warned that the pound could tumble below parity against the US dollar.

Summers gave a blistering condemnation of the UK government, speaking on Bloomberg Television’s “Wall Street Week” with David Westin.

“It makes me very sorry to say, but I think the UK is behaving a bit like an emerging market turning itself into a submerging market.

“Between Brexit, how far the Bank of England got behind the curve and now these fiscal policies, I think Britain will be remembered for having pursuing the worst macroeconomic policies of any major country in a long time.”

Summers, who was Secretary of the US Treasury from 1999 to 2001, said he wouldn’t be surprised if the pound eventually gets below a dollar, if the current path is maintained.

He added:

This is simply not a moment for the kind of naïve, wishful thinking, supply-side economics that is being pursued in Britain.”

Bloomberg has the full story: Summers Warns Pound May Tumble Past $1 on ‘Naive’ UK Policies

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4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Very concerning Purple. 
You just pray that this potentially mad woman knows something the rest of the world doesn’t. I think she thought, quick tax cuts, give out loads of freebies, have people fawning over her, quick general election, but it seems to have backfired spectacularly. 
 

As commentators are starting to say, there is a kind of mad logic to this. If you throw yourselves out of the world's largest single market, membership of which has been economically very beneficial, then it doesn't make sense to recreate the single market by means of this trade deal or that.

The logic of Brexit is that you go down a totally different path with a different economic model. What has been characterised as Singapore-on-Thames. But taken to its logical conclusion it isn't just a different economic model. It is also as a consequence a ripping up of the post-war consensus of a welfare state that looks after the poorest in society.

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I did A level Economics 45 years ago. I can vividly remember being taught why this sort of thing doesn't work. It absolutely beggars belief. Is it a goodbye gift to their backers or are they completely nuts? 

I'm a Blair/Starmer Labour supporter but I'm not celebrating probably the worst budget ever. It's a gift to the Labour Party but I'm wondering if we'll actually have a country left to argue about in 2 years time. 

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11 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

As commentators are starting to say, there is a kind of mad logic to this. If you throw yourselves out of the world's largest single market, membership of which has been economically very beneficial, then it doesn't make sense to recreate the single market by means of this trade deal or that.

The logic of Brexit is that you go down a totally different path with a different economic model. What has been characterised as Singapore-on-Thames. But taken to its logical conclusion it isn't just a different economic model. It is also as a consequence a ripping up of the post-war consensus of a welfare state that looks after the poorest in society.

Yes - As stated many times  - its the US model - Britannia Unchained (or is it unhinged).

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20 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

As commentators are starting to say, there is a kind of mad logic to this. If you throw yourselves out of the world's largest single market, membership of which has been economically very beneficial, then it doesn't make sense to recreate the single market by means of this trade deal or that.

The logic of Brexit is that you go down a totally different path with a different economic model. What has been characterised as Singapore-on-Thames. But taken to its logical conclusion it isn't just a different economic model. It is also as a consequence a ripping up of the post-war consensus of a welfare state that looks after the poorest in society.

Now had time to look at the FT, and I see as usual Shrimsley has simply repeated my explanation, albeit at greater length.🤩 He makes two points. Firstly, this is not Thatcherism:

"This shocking dismissal of the central importance of sound public finances is a rejection of the core Conservative view, which has held since Margaret Thatcher, that you cannot govern on the never never."

Secondly, in relation to my comment highlighted in red:

"It is, however, important to remember that most of those who backed Brexit did not do so out of a philosophical desire to slash the size of the state."

Quite.

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

As commentators are starting to say, there is a kind of mad logic to this. If you throw yourselves out of the world's largest single market, membership of which has been economically very beneficial, then it doesn't make sense to recreate the single market by means of this trade deal or that.

The logic of Brexit is that you go down a totally different path with a different economic model. What has been characterised as Singapore-on-Thames. But taken to its logical conclusion it isn't just a different economic model. It is also as a consequence a ripping up of the post-war consensus of a welfare state that looks after the poorest in society.

Specifically regarding caps for bankers, it's also a direct response to the refusal of the EU to agree much on equivalence; the removal of the caps is a naked bid to make it personally attractive for bankers to have their operations in London in spite of that. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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22 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Now had time to look at the FT, and I see as usual Shrimsley has simply repeated my explanation, albeit at greater length.🤩 He makes two points. Firstly, this is not Thatcherism:

"This shocking dismissal of the central importance of sound public finances is a rejection of the core Conservative view, which has held since Margaret Thatcher, that you cannot govern on the never never."

Secondly, in relation to my comment highlighted in red:

"It is, however, important to remember that most of those who backed Brexit did not do so out of a philosophical desire to slash the size of the state."

Quite.

A few Tories beginning to quietly mute their dissatisfaction at all this. Will they however put country before their own personal positions and bring the government down ?. 
What happens if the markets carry on sliding Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday ( unlikely I concede ) ? But this budget was meant to encourage people to invest in the U.K., but instead of that investors are pulling their money out. 
Let’s hope Australia, New Zealand and India can provide enough investment to pull the markets back.

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12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Specifically regarding caps for bankers, it's also a direct response to the refusal of the EU to agree much on equivalence; the removal of the caps is a naked bid to make it personally attractive for bankers to have their operations in London in spite of that. 

You mean Farage, Johnson, Mogg etc lied about something else to get us to leave the EU, they said that there was no chance FS would leave London, you like the European Health service are now telling us they can and will leave London. 
The move on bankers bonuses may or may not be right, but the bit them and you are not getting is they have just told the poorest that they are ok with bankers earning millions. Mogg etc himself led the country in hating the bankers. These are the very people they begged to vote for them and people like me who have voted for them all my life who think they are making our country a laughing stock, not just around the world but in the U.K. itself.

If the likes of Truss and Mogg etc thought that the last 12 years policies were wrong ( as they now say ) why weren’t they brave enough to vote against them, I suggest because they were busily lining their pockets with good peoples money.

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57 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Firstly, this is not Thatcherism:

Yep! Said so myself above. Thatcher funded her tax cuts by increasing VAT from 8% to 15% and retaining a top rate of personal tax at 40%. Borrowing £45bn to give tax cuts to the wealthy is utterly reckless, and something that should outrage any true Thatcherite.

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We now have the prospect of the government and the Bank of England running policies entirely orthogonal to each other. Expect another hefty interest rate rise incoming shortly.

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5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

We now have the prospect of the government and the Bank of England running policies entirely orthogonal to each other. Expect another hefty interest rate rise incoming shortly.

With Kami-Kwasi's insistence that the Bank of England meet him twice a week, I'd imagine he'll be leaning on them heavily

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1 minute ago, Icecream Snow said:

With Kami-Kwasi's insistence that the Bank of England meet him twice a week, I'd imagine he'll be leaning on them heavily

They have already side-lined the OBR; expect them to take away the power of the Bank of England to determine interest rates. Think I'm going to watch Downfall again to remind myself what happens when the lunatics take over the asylum. 

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3 minutes ago, Icecream Snow said:

With Kami-Kwasi's insistence that the Bank of England meet him twice a week, I'd imagine he'll be leaning on them heavily

Maybe now Truss can’t use the Foreign Office credit card at the NCFC shop, he is trying to arrange a loan for her.

What a scam, we are a decent family football club so don’t drag us through your dirt and fraud.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-63006755

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4 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Maybe now Truss can’t use the Foreign Office credit card at the NCFC shop, he is trying to arrange a loan for her.

What a scam, we are a decent family football club so don’t drag us through your dirt and fraud.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-63006755

FFS! I know some fans regard Norfolk as a faraway foreign land, but this is approaching Johnson levels of pi*ss-taking corruption.

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8 hours ago, Herman said:

 

And that’s from Tim Montgomerie who’s a prominent Tory.

If you really want to depress yourself some more this is illuminating:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/23/liz-truss-power-extreme-neoliberal-thinktanks?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It really is the takeover of the wealthy elite, who voted for this?

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5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

And that’s from Tim Montgomerie who’s a prominent Tory.

If you really want to depress yourself some more this is illuminating:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/23/liz-truss-power-extreme-neoliberal-thinktanks?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It really is the takeover of the wealthy elite, who voted for this?

The fifth column literally running the country.

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I think we can safely say that the Truss / Brexity economics has been bowled clean out for a duck on it's very first encounter with market realities.

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58 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

And that’s from Tim Montgomerie who’s a prominent Tory.

If you really want to depress yourself some more this is illuminating:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/23/liz-truss-power-extreme-neoliberal-thinktanks?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

It really is the takeover of the wealthy elite, who voted for this?

I was going to say the 160,000 t**** but in fairness only about 90,000 were complete t**** and voted for her.

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How in any way shape or form is this now the time for tax cuts for the super rich?! It just beggars belief! I like to think that I’m an aspirational thinking person economically speaking but not at the expense of making sure the most vulnerable of society aren’t looked after first. I dread to think what’s coming.

if interest rates hit 5%+ then how is there not going to be an epic property crash? The scary thing is, these lot aren’t thick, they’re just pure evil.

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4 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

How in any way shape or form is this now the time for tax cuts for the super rich?! It just beggars belief! I like to think that I’m an aspirational thinking person economically speaking but not at the expense of making sure the most vulnerable of society aren’t looked after first. I dread to think what’s coming.

if interest rates hit 5%+ then how is there not going to be an epic property crash? The scary thing is, these lot aren’t thick, they’re just pure evil.

The more cynical amongst us might think that a property crash would be the perfect opportunity for those with piles of spare cash to swoop in and pick up some bargains in the ruins of the economy.

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3 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

How in any way shape or form is this now the time for tax cuts for the super rich?! It just beggars belief! I like to think that I’m an aspirational thinking person economically speaking but not at the expense of making sure the most vulnerable of society aren’t looked after first. I dread to think what’s coming.

if interest rates hit 5%+ then how is there not going to be an epic property crash? The scary thing is, these lot aren’t thick, they’re just pure evil.

What I actually find really funny in all of this is that over and over again, we've had opposition calls for resignations, and they've got their way, and we've had a new PM, who has been worse than the one before. 

I couldn't envision this happening under Johnson or May. This seems like a great lesson in being careful for what you wish for .

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1 hour ago, Well b back said:

I was going to say the 160,000 t**** but in fairness only about 90,000 were complete t**** and voted for her.

I wonder how many of those 90,000 would vote differently now, surely she is nailing the coffin firmly shut on the Tories’ election hopes?

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12 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

The more cynical amongst us might think that a property crash would be the perfect opportunity for those with piles of spare cash to swoop in and pick up some bargains in the ruins of the economy.

I’m safe until 2025 thankfully but my payments are already £990 a month and I’ve got a pretty good LTV. A 5% interest rate would leave me needing to find another £400 a month. 10% and I’m begging around family to help me out, starting an onlyfans or handing the keys to the bank.

I know people in a far more fragile state than me that appear to be doing alright with life who this increase will absolutely destroy.

selfishly, I’m hoping this somewhat sorts itself out by 2025. I know we are in a historically low time of interest rates so if it can settle at 3 or 4% I’ll grin and bear it.

seems I need a promotion/job change every year or 2 just to tread water at the moment. Hope my mum is ready for 3 days a week childcare when nursery becomes completely unaffordable!

it’s really sad watching our public services all wilt in front of us in broad daylight. It’s clearly visible first hand how rinsed the police, education and health services have been and an absolute disgrace in what is supposed to be an affluent, well to do country.

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Just now, Tetteys Jig said:

I’m safe until 2025 thankfully but my payments are already £990 a month and I’ve got a pretty good LTV. A 5% interest rate would leave me needing to find another £400 a month. 10% and I’m begging around family to help me out, starting an onlyfans or handing the keys to the bank.

I know people in a far more fragile state than me that appear to be doing alright with life who this increase will absolutely destroy.

selfishly, I’m hoping this somewhat sorts itself out by 2025. I know we are in a historically low time of interest rates so if it can settle at 3 or 4% I’ll grin and bear it.

seems I need a promotion/job change every year or 2 just to tread water at the moment. Hope my mum is ready for 3 days a week childcare when nursery becomes completely unaffordable!

it’s really sad watching our public services all wilt in front of us in broad daylight. It’s clearly visible first hand how rinsed the police, education and health services have been and an absolute disgrace in what is supposed to be an affluent, well to do country.

Surely the massive tax cut compensates for the rise in interest rates? (And the energy price rise. And the corresponding rise in food prices) No? Are you sure you’re not one of these bone idle British people Truss has been warning us about?

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2 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I’m safe until 2025 thankfully but my payments are already £990 a month and I’ve got a pretty good LTV. A 5% interest rate would leave me needing to find another £400 a month. 10% and I’m begging around family to help me out, starting an onlyfans or handing the keys to the bank.

I know people in a far more fragile state than me that appear to be doing alright with life who this increase will absolutely destroy.

selfishly, I’m hoping this somewhat sorts itself out by 2025. I know we are in a historically low time of interest rates so if it can settle at 3 or 4% I’ll grin and bear it.

seems I need a promotion/job change every year or 2 just to tread water at the moment. Hope my mum is ready for 3 days a week childcare when nursery becomes completely unaffordable!

it’s really sad watching our public services all wilt in front of us in broad daylight. It’s clearly visible first hand how rinsed the police, education and health services have been and an absolute disgrace in what is supposed to be an affluent, well to do country.

Hi TJ

Beginning to look more likely that the BOE will call a meeting next week and increase rates again as the only option to try and stop the pound sliding and the de investment in the U.K. 

Should the red wall Tories revolt she could be gone next week, but don’t suppose for one second they will be brave enough.

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28 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What I actually find really funny in all of this is that over and over again, we've had opposition calls for resignations, and they've got their way, and we've had a new PM, who has been worse than the one before. 

I couldn't envision this happening under Johnson or May. This seems like a great lesson in being careful for what you wish for .

I think you will find they were calling for the leader to quit and call a general election, but they weren’t brave enough to do that. Bet they wish they had now.

The kids already hate us because of what we did with Europe, think how they will react when they realise it is them that will be paying back these billions for decades to come.

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