New Tory Leader

[BigFish 1,986]

 

[BigFish 1,986]

35 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Don't be surprised to see a bit of political opportunism in that move. A die-hard Labour member ex-work colleague of mine has had trouble with Wakeford, being blocked by him on social media for posing a few too many "awkward" questions. Granted, this colleague is very much of an Old Labour perspective, so Wakeford is probably Blairite here.

The odd thing here is that the ones who are getting really upset by this is not the Tories but the Corbynite Left and Momentum

[TheGunnShow 5,909]

Just now, BigFish said:

The odd thing here is that the ones who are getting really upset by this is not the Tories but the Corbynite Left and Momentum

Not that odd. As said, the ex-colleague of mine was very much Old Labour in his political perspectives, and he was rather miffed. 

[dylanisabaddog 4,846]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Johnson suggested he didn't know the quote. Considering he wrote a book on Churchill you'd think he would. 

The review in the Sunday Times said that book was the best example of copy and paste he had ever seen. Anyone would think he just 'wrote it' for the money. 

BJ obviously overlooked the fact that the EU was proposed by Winston Churchill. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he referred to a United States of Europe 

Edited January 19, 2022 by dylanisabaddog

[PurpleCanary 5,553]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Johnson suggested he didn't know the quote. Considering he wrote a book on Churchill you'd think he would. 

Not according to this New Statesman reviewer, the Regius Professor of History at Cambridge:

The book reads as if it was dictated, not written. All the way through we hear Boris’s voice; it’s like being cornered in the Drones Club and harangued for hours by Bertie Wooster. The gung-ho style inhibits thought instead of stimulating it. There’s huge condescension here. The Churchill Factor advertises itself as an attempt to educate “young people” who think that Churchill is a bulldog in a television advertisement rather than Britain’s greatest statesman but talking down to them is no way to achieve this aim.

In a book that involves a good deal of modern European history, Boris the Eurosceptic clearly doesn’t find it necessary to master the details. Croatia, he tells us casually, was ruled by “some Ustasha creep or other” in the interwar years (it was not), while in the same period there was a plague of “communist uprisings in eastern Europe” (there was not). The Cecilienhof Palace in Potsdam, he writes in his offhand way, was “originally intended for some minor offshoot of the Hohenzollern dynasty” (it was not – it was built for the crown prince, heir to the German throne). He thinks that German industrial relations before 1914 were characterised by “co-operation between bosses and workers” (they were not). Hitler did not plan to kill the disabled, as he claims: most of the disabled in Germany in the 1930s were war veterans. The Germans did not capture Stalingrad, though this book claims they did.

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by PurpleCanary

[Rock The Boat 1,323]

14 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The review in the Sunday Times said that book was the best example of copy and paste he had ever seen. Anyone would think he just 'wrote it' for the money. 

BJ obviously overlooked the fact that the EU was proposed by Winston Churchill. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he referred to a United States of Europe 

Churchill did indeed propose an EU, a United States of Europe, but he did not want the UK to be part of it. He wanted the UK, US and USSR to be "friends and sponsors" of the project.

“We are with Europe, but not of it,” he wrote in an earlier essay. “We are linked but not comprised.” 

[Herman 9,698]

Jeepers, every single thing about him is lazy and generally crap. The class system needs to be destroyed so absolute wastrels like him can not flourish.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Perhaps Boris is a latter day Scarlet Pimpernel. Maybe his foppish, playboy image hides the real Boris. The man of courage. The man of honour.

Or perhaps a Tale of Two Cities where he will utter "It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Or do we still have to wait for the Gray Report which may end with "fcuk off ya fat cnut."

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

The revelations keep on coming

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Churchill did indeed propose an EU, a United States of Europe, but he did not want the UK to be part of it. He wanted the UK, US and USSR to be "friends and sponsors" of the project.

“We are with Europe, but not of it,” he wrote in an earlier essay. “We are linked but not comprised.” 

Yet we kept Military bases there until 2019.

[Rock The Boat 1,323]

7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Yet we kept Military bases there until 2019.

We kept military bases in European countries that were members of NATO. Not to be conflated with the EU.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Rock The Boat said:

We kept military bases in European countries that were members of NATO. Not to be conflated with the EU.

But Cyprus is in the Eu but not in Nato and we are still there

[horsefly 4,273]

Churchill wanted the legacy of defeating the Na*zis to be a united Europe subject to international law and common human rights. He would weep at what this current bunch running his own party has done to that vision.

[Rock The Boat 1,323]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

But Cyprus is in the Eu but not in Nato and we are still there

The UK has had peacetime military bases in Cyprus since 1960, long before Cyprus and the UK joined the EU and its forerunners.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

Churchill is a complicated figure - a man of his time and 'empire' with all the baggage and outlooks of growing up in the late Victorian era. He viewed the UK and France as superpowers still, when post WW2 they were certainly independently not. Right man as a war leader but... 

Voted out of office in the Labour 1945 landslide before WW2 ended!

Interesting reading.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[dylanisabaddog 4,846]

Churchill is still a figure of hate in Poland 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/yalta-was-a-carve-up-and-the-poles-are-understandably-still-bitter-about-it

On VE day he wrote to 15,000 Poles telling them to go home. Luckily for me at least one of them said no. 

[Well b back 3,180]

Yet more, please make your mind up as to wether the punishment fits the crime

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-60057326

[TheGunnShow 5,909]

2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Churchill is still a figure of hate in Poland 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/yalta-was-a-carve-up-and-the-poles-are-understandably-still-bitter-about-it

On VE day he wrote to 15,000 Poles telling them to go home. Luckily for me at least one of them said no. 

Not surprised. All you need to do is go to the Warsaw Uprising Museum, which is a touching, but excellent way to spend an afternoon.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The UK has had peacetime military bases in Cyprus since 1960, long before Cyprus and the UK joined the EU and its forerunners.

But we haven't pulled out and Turkey and Greece share the island not us.

[Rock The Boat 1,323]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

But we haven't pulled out and Turkey and Greece share the island not us.

Because we signed a treaty with Cyprus in 1960 to have military bases there and signed a further treaty with Turkey and Greece that Britain acts as a guarantor of the islands independence. Absolutely nothing to do with the EU. Just us acting in the way that sovereign independent nations in control of their own destiny act.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

Watching some of the vox Pops on the ex Tory MP defection.

Its surprising how many of the electorate can't grasp that we elect a MP as a representative not a delegate. The MP is supposed to use their wits to argue whats best for their constituents, to make decisions for them and not be  preprogrammed robot.

 

[Herman 9,698]

[Herman 9,698]

William Wragg. Bit of a shocker. 

[Barry Brockes 145]

All allegations at present but it just gets worse and worse.

No wonder a number of MPs have withdrawn their letters to Sir Graham Brady. Nothing proven, as yet, but it has the hand of Boris all over it.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

All allegations at present but it just gets worse and worse.

No wonder a number of MPs have withdrawn their letters to Sir Graham Brady. Nothing proven, as yet, but it has the hand of Boris all over it.

Apparently the Speaker has been informed of skullduggery by Boris supporters and Ministers that is akin to blackmail.

[Barry Brockes 145]

Allegedly Conservative MPs have been told that any of them who vote against Boris in any forthcoming leadership election will have funding for their constituencies withdrawn.

[Van wink 2,994]

Politics is a dirty business, always has been of course.

[TheGunnShow 5,909]

If - and it is a big if - this is true, I am hard-pushed to see why the police would not be involved. At the same time, I also wonder if they're involved in some way to save Boris considering that the parties went on in Number 10...

[Herman 9,698]

31 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

Allegedly Conservative MPs have been told that any of them who vote against Boris in any forthcoming leadership election will have funding for their constituencies withdrawn.

Also allegations of withdrawal of funding for previous votes including if they voted to help hungry children. Apparently the threat of Bury FC losing financial help was the final straw for Wakeford. 

[Van wink 2,994]

10 minutes ago, Herman said:

Also allegations of withdrawal of funding for previous votes including if they voted to help hungry children. Apparently the threat of Bury FC losing financial help was the final straw for Wakeford. 

You can sleep easy, BJ has said he has categorically seen no evidence for any of these claims. ( he also muttered that he was going to ask Sue to let him know if he had seen any evidence and had just forgotten, and if that was the case he was very sorry, but nobody told him they were evidence ).