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8 minutes ago, BigFish said:

When you have a majority it is pretty difficult to make a case to put this at risk or give it away through PR. When you don't have a majority you don't have the power. Catch 22 really. For Labour, PR means that the Greens and even possibly the LibDems would eat their breakfast. That said it is difficult to see any route to a Labour majority, so a hung Parliament via tactical voting is the best outcome. At that point the question would in all likelihood which way would the SNP jump.

If they have any sense then they would choose confidence and supply with a Labour minority. They can't viabally have ministers in a government of a country they want to leave and propping up a Tory government would be exceptionally dangerous for them.

The only way I could see it working is if the Conservatives offered them a referendum in exchange, but that would hit their unionist vote as well. 

Edited by 1902

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Award for King Cnut of the day goes to Tory MP Peter Bottomley:

Tory MP reveals ‘desperation’ of living on £82k as he asks for pay rise

Veteran Tory Sir Peter Bottomley has spoken of the “grim” struggle of living on an MP’s £81,932 salary.

 

Sir Peter’s comment raised eyebrows on the day Universal Credit has been cut for the most vulnerable living in poverty.

The Commons Father of the House, 77, who represents Worthing West, said many of his colleagues were finding their situation “desperately difficult”.

He believes MPs should be paid the same amount as GPs – whose average salary in England is £100,700. The average UK wage is £31,461.

He added: “I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/tory-mp-reveals-desperation-of-living-on-82k-as-he-asks-for-pay-rise/ar-AAPd0Jv?ocid=msedgntp

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Blimey! Even the Torygraph recognise that Johnson is an utter fraud:

Planet Normal: 'Boris Johnson is in complete denial about the dire place this country is in'

The Prime Minister’s first Conservative Party Conference speech in two years was joke-heavy, but for Telegraph columnist and Planet Normal podcast host, Allison Pearson, it was no laughing matter. “It sounded like a victory speech… But this speech came after eighteen brutal months of lockdown, of deaths, of school closures, of an epidemic of mental health problems, of bankruptcies. There are queues to get fuel, queues to see a GP, the threat of no turkey at Christmas.”

 

“The Prime Minister,” she tells podcast co-host and fellow columnist, Liam Halligan, “was in complete denial about this dire place that the country finds itself in.”

For Halligan, it highlighted a significant gap between the people and the political class: “I think an awful lot of the public will think that for all his rhetoric, for all his obvious oratory skill, for all his undoubted showmanship, he sounds a bit out of touch.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/planet-normal-boris-johnson-is-in-complete-denial-about-the-dire-place-this-country-is-in/ar-AAPdUVp?ocid=msedgntp

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Just a reminder of what the Thatcherite and former employer of johnson, Max Hastings, thinks of the blusterfu*k Johnson:

Image

 

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1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Just a reminder of what the Thatcherite and former employer of johnson, Max Hastings, thinks of the blusterfu*k Johnson:

Image

 

Yes, except that Hastings gave Johnson a job on the Daily Telegraph and then made him the paper's Brussels correspondent. In which position, from 1989 to 1994 (during the whole of which time Hastings remained the editor) Johnson kept up a stream of highly tendentious and sometime downright mendacious stories about the EU. Did Hastings fire Johnson for displaying in his journalism all those character faults so clearly expressed after the event? No. He kept him in that position, and it was Bojo who decided to move on.

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1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Yes, except that Hastings gave Johnson a job on the Daily Telegraph and then made him the paper's Brussels correspondent. In which position, from 1989 to 1994 (during the whole of which time Hastings remained the editor) Johnson kept up a stream of highly tendentious and sometime downright mendacious stories about the EU. Did Hastings fire Johnson for displaying in his journalism all those character faults so clearly expressed after the event? No. He kept him in that position, and it was Bojo who decided to move on.

Indeed! I certainly didn't post that quote as paean to Hastings. If you employ a scallywag you ought to expect him to behave like a scallywag. However, it's hard not to agree that his portrait of Johnson is about as spot on as it gets, and the fact that it comes from a very traditional right-wing Tory adds a certain piquancy to the description.

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7 hours ago, horsefly said:

Blimey! Even the Torygraph recognise that Johnson is an utter fraud:

Planet Normal: 'Boris Johnson is in complete denial about the dire place this country is in'

The Prime Minister’s first Conservative Party Conference speech in two years was joke-heavy, but for Telegraph columnist and Planet Normal podcast host, Allison Pearson, it was no laughing matter. “It sounded like a victory speech… But this speech came after eighteen brutal months of lockdown, of deaths, of school closures, of an epidemic of mental health problems, of bankruptcies. There are queues to get fuel, queues to see a GP, the threat of no turkey at Christmas.”

 

“The Prime Minister,” she tells podcast co-host and fellow columnist, Liam Halligan, “was in complete denial about this dire place that the country finds itself in.”

For Halligan, it highlighted a significant gap between the people and the political class: “I think an awful lot of the public will think that for all his rhetoric, for all his obvious oratory skill, for all his undoubted showmanship, he sounds a bit out of touch.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/planet-normal-boris-johnson-is-in-complete-denial-about-the-dire-place-this-country-is-in/ar-AAPdUVp?ocid=msedgntp

Not only the Torygraph, but arch Brexit/Tory cheerleader Alison Pearson. Interesting development.👍

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Not sure if anyone is watching Question Time ? For those that listen to fighting talk on Saturday mornings there is a bit at the end where to decide the winner you have to defend the indefensible. Zahari trying to defend some of this is just a laughing stock and is digging a bigger and bigger hole with every question. 
I think the country has begun its own U turn and surely they must soon realise Boris must go or the Tories could go instead. In fact a woman has just said to big applause Johnson lied to get Brexit through and Brexit is turning.

Fiona has pointed out the vast majority of the audience like me voted leave, but there is little or no support for it.

Plenty are saying we voted for no immigrants, now you are bringing them in, what was the point.

Astonishing stuff.

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Why does Zahari not send his kids ( assuming he has some ) to work in these jobs, apparently now robots are going to do those jobs, yet we were told Brits wanted these jobs.

Now we hear these workers that are low paid ( fruit pickers ) are getting upto £15 an hour, that’s the same as a skilled fire engineer.

Edited by Well b back

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13 hours ago, horsefly said:

Award for King Cnut of the day goes to Tory MP Peter Bottomley:

Tory MP reveals ‘desperation’ of living on £82k as he asks for pay rise

Veteran Tory Sir Peter Bottomley has spoken of the “grim” struggle of living on an MP’s £81,932 salary.

 

Sir Peter’s comment raised eyebrows on the day Universal Credit has been cut for the most vulnerable living in poverty.

The Commons Father of the House, 77, who represents Worthing West, said many of his colleagues were finding their situation “desperately difficult”.

He believes MPs should be paid the same amount as GPs – whose average salary in England is £100,700. The average UK wage is £31,461.

He added: “I don’t know how they manage. It’s really grim.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/tory-mp-reveals-desperation-of-living-on-82k-as-he-asks-for-pay-rise/ar-AAPd0Jv?ocid=msedgntp

In case you thought he might think about then say you misinterpreted me or sorry that’s not what I meant, you’re wrong.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58830792

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7 hours ago, Well b back said:

Not sure if anyone is watching Question Time ? For those that listen to fighting talk on Saturday mornings there is a bit at the end where to decide the winner you have to defend the indefensible. Zahari trying to defend some of this is just a laughing stock and is digging a bigger and bigger hole with every question. 
I think the country has begun its own U turn and surely they must soon realise Boris must go or the Tories could go instead. In fact a woman has just said to big applause Johnson lied to get Brexit through and Brexit is turning.

Fiona has pointed out the vast majority of the audience like me voted leave, but there is little or no support for it.

Plenty are saying we voted for no immigrants, now you are bringing them in, what was the point.

Astonishing stuff.

Just a small clip of what you are saying.

 

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9 hours ago, Well b back said:

Not sure if anyone is watching Question Time ? For those that listen to fighting talk on Saturday mornings there is a bit at the end where to decide the winner you have to defend the indefensible. Zahari trying to defend some of this is just a laughing stock and is digging a bigger and bigger hole with every question. 
I think the country has begun its own U turn and surely they must soon realise Boris must go or the Tories could go instead. In fact a woman has just said to big applause Johnson lied to get Brexit through and Brexit is turning.

Fiona has pointed out the vast majority of the audience like me voted leave, but there is little or no support for it.

Plenty are saying we voted for no immigrants, now you are bringing them in, what was the point.

Astonishing stuff.

It was indeed quite an astonishing episode of QT. I have never seen one in which virtually the entire "carefully selected for balance" audience was unanimous in its contempt for the government. Johnson's joke and hope performance may have gone down well with the gullible old duffers at conference, but clearly the general public have seen it for the shambolic failure of governance that it represents.

Martin Lewis, on the "Newscast" programme that followed, confirmed that we're in for a year of massive price hikes that will devastate the budgets of those who can least afford it. This year's massive hike in fuel bills will be followed by an even more massive hike in the spring. As Lewis pointed out, the fuel price cap is determined by the average price paid by the fuel suppliers for the preceding 6 months, currently that is running at 30% higher. Add to that the removal of £20 from UC, spiraling food prices that will be exacerbated by the HGV crisis, inflation increasing, the cost of brexit to jobs and industry,  etc, etc, etc. This truly will be a winter of discontent. Johnson needs reminding of that quaint old saying, "Fine words butter no parsnips" (many, however, won't even be able to afford the parsnips, let alone fantasize about adding butter).

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I have never known an incumbent PM's speech to their own party to have been as fully rounded on by the media and public as his this week. Maybe when Kinnock was in opposition and his attempt at an Austin Powers type speech was battered but he wasn't in power.

The public, remembering his absences when big moments happened, are no longer be fooled by him. And the voters he won over with his anti immigration policies, are now feeling it in their pockets and will certainly turn on him if they suffer more. There are no grey areas with these people. Its white or nothing else.

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5 hours ago, Herman said:

That dreadful speech must have exhausted the poor sod.

The Sunday Mirror front page 10 October 2021

I wonder which Arab or Russian paid for this one?

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2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Johnson may need to come back from his holiday early, the kids are squabbling.

 

Making things up though is just however normal for Johnson and his government. Nothing new here.

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Guess who gave Zac Goldsmith a knighthood?

Guess who gave Boris Johnson a free holiday?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10077893/Boris-Carrie-break-25-000-week-Marbella-hideaway.html

I hope the sea isn't closed.

Yes, but he needs a break after that stunning speech where he told the world he has the guts to face anything.

Except yet another AWOL during troubled times and media outrage.

And its not half term so why has he taken his 17 month old out of Eton?

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12 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Johnson may need to come back from his holiday early, the kids are squabbling.

 

Tip: Whenever news sources are anonymous, it's a made up story.

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3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Tip: Whenever news sources are anonymous, it's a made up story.

There goes Laura Kuennsberg's career.

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5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Tip: Whenever news sources are anonymous, it's a made up story.

You really don't understand very much do you!

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15 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

KwKw never seems sure what he is saying or doing. He has the personality of a house brick and his heart rate of a dormant tortoise.

Seems Kwasi is rather keen on misleading the public whenever it suits him (he's learnt much from his master):

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/kwasi-kwarteng-accused-of-misleading-claims-over-power-cable-project/ar-AAPlrTJ?ocid=msedgntp

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