2 bids turned down for Max.... FROM BARCELONA

[ged in the onion bag 854]

7 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Whatever happens, he'll go. If Barcelona don't budge, we'll have to accept £5m for the season and hope that he gets game time and possibly even England caps. Our whole model is predicated on producing attractive young talent, and sometimes the corollary of that is that your hand is going to be forced. If we play hardball and deny Max a move to Barcelona, how will that reflect on other youngsters looking at Norwich as a destination? If Webber can negotiate an obligation to buy then fantastic, but one way or another we have to sanction this move.

But the model is in its infancy  and the jury is still out.    Don’t get me wrong, I fully support the clubs approach but the model won’t work if we sell all our best players at the expense of a settled team capable of staying in the EPL.     We replace them with new players that will take the best part of a season to get used to and understand the system we play.  
 

I said in another thread, of last seasons team ML MV MS TT JD TK all failed at that level, many argue KM CZ TT aren’t good enough either and if we sell our 5 jewels that means we need to replace 14 players in the squad of which nearly all need to be improvements for the plan to work!    But even if they are improvements how long will it take  for them to be a cohesive team.     Fact is the plan has to involve retention of our best players if it’s to succeed!     

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

Frankly we made him what he is and if he’s so ungrateful he’s prepared to screw us over to get a move then I have no qualms in denying him that move. As it happens I don’t think he is, he seems a good character and I’m sure it can all be sorted out to everyone’s satisfaction. 

Yep, we made him what he is; a brilliant young player who's attracting interest from one of the biggest clubs in the world.

When a club of that magnitude comes calling for one of your players, you make a deal.

[All the Germans 1,075]

2 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

I am the only person who can’t believe the Max Aarons would play 1 second of football at his current level of ability for Barcelona. They want him on loan!  I don’t get it at all. 
Miles away from being a top league fullback at present let alone a top European team fullback.

Yes. You are.

He isn't 'miles away'. He is not in the same league as Trent (but nobody is) and there are definitely quite a few better right backs (even excluding Trent), but miles away is harsh. Very harsh.

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

The Lewis and Liverpool thing was handled absolutely correctly. I still think that it'd be folly to deny him that move; if Barcelona were offering £10m for a permanent deal and nothing else, of course we'd tell them where to go. But paying us £5m to give Max a season playing for pretty much the best club in the world in terms of footballing philosophy, with the possibility of him either coming back to us bigger and better or being bought for an astronomical fee in a potentially resurgent market? Sounds like a good deal for all parties to me.

In those very positive situations, yes, good deals. If they were the only possibility, Barcelona would be crazy to not include a purchase option? One reason they are not, is there are other, negative (for us) situations that also could occur. You are not including deals where he gets a career ending injury, he gets a serious injury that doesn't end his career but puts serious doubts on his fitness, or reduces his speed (both reducing his value). He plays and is rubbish. He doesn't play. He comes back low on confidence from this situations and never regains his previous form. etc etc. I realise these are overly negative, but your scenarios are best case and I am trying to offer balance.

 

 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

Yep, we made him what he is; a brilliant young player who's attracting interest from one of the biggest clubs in the world.

When a club of that magnitude comes calling for one of your players, you make a deal.

Of course, we could just go online and book a flight and send him off with our blessings and ask Barca to just play us in a friendly next pre-season!    

We are a business and have to compete on that level too.    

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

But the model is in its infancy  and the jury is still out.    Don’t get me wrong, I fully support the clubs approach but the model won’t work if we sell all our best players at the expense of a settled team capable of staying in the EPL.     We replace them with new players that will take the best part of a season to get used to and understand the system we play.  
 

I said in another thread, of last seasons team ML MV MS TT JD TK all failed at that level, many argue KM CZ TT aren’t good enough either and if we sell our 5 jewels that means we need to replace 14 players in the squad of which nearly all need to be improvements for the plan to work!    But even if they are improvements how long will it take  for them to be a cohesive team.     Fact is the plan has to involve retention of our best players if it’s to succeed!     

Everything you've just said, though, is contingent upon the desires of the players and their agents. If Max had said "I don't want to go to Barca, I want to stay here and learn my trade", we wouldn't be talking to them. As soon as a player says they want to leave the club, you are treading on very dangerous ground if you keep him here against his will.

If we sell Max, you might see us playing hardball with Emi; I think Cantwell and Godfrey will also stay. Unfortunately, a bit of player churn is inevitable with this model.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

4 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Yes. You are.

He isn't 'miles away'. He is not in the same league as Trent (but nobody is) and there are definitely quite a few better right backs (even excluding Trent), but miles away is harsh. Very harsh.

In those very positive situations, yes, good deals. If they were the only possibility, Barcelona would be crazy to not include a purchase option? One reason they are not, is there are other, negative (for us) situations that also could occur. You are not including deals where he gets a career ending injury, he gets a serious injury that doesn't end his career but puts serious doubts on his fitness, or reduces his speed (both reducing his value). He plays and is rubbish. He doesn't play. He comes back low on confidence from this situations and never regains his previous form. etc etc. I realise these are overly negative, but your scenarios are best case and I am trying to offer balance.

Everything you've said there is pretty fair. On balance, though, La Liga and Champions League football for a 20-year-old Englishman is a remarkable opportunity. You cross your fingers, make it happen, and hope for a positive outcome.

The alternative is saying "nah sorry, you can't go and play alongside the greatest footballer who's ever lived, at the greatest club in the world, because our valuations are a little way off". This is a unique situation, and it's not a case of whether we sanction the deal; it's a case of how good a deal Webber can strike.

[ged in the onion bag 854]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

Everything you've just said, though, is contingent upon the desires of the players and their agents. If Max had said "I don't want to go to Barca, I want to stay here and learn my trade", we wouldn't be talking to them. As soon as a player says they want to leave the club, you are treading on very dangerous ground if you keep him here against his will.

If we sell Max, you might see us playing hardball with Emi; I think Cantwell and Godfrey will also stay. Unfortunately, a bit of player churn is inevitable with this model.

A bit yes, but if Todd and Ben lose their mates to higher leagues you can be assured they will want to follow them ASAP and if we lose three how does that affect the team overall (The amount of new players) and the fact we probably won’t replace them adequately.   

No doubt there are no easy answers but the plan can’t work when you have to replace 14 squad players after a relegation!    That’s not sustainable.   The squad needs stability.     We will be back where we were when Farke arrived albeit much richer!   

[Hardhouse44 261]

7 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Yes. You are.

He isn't 'miles away'. He is not in the same league as Trent (but nobody is) and there are definitely quite a few better right backs (even excluding Trent), but miles away is harsh. Very harsh.

In those very positive situations, yes, good deals. If they were the only possibility, Barcelona would be crazy to not include a purchase option? One reason they are not, is there are other, negative (for us) situations that also could occur. You are not including deals where he gets a career ending injury, he gets a serious injury that doesn't end his career but puts serious doubts on his fitness, or reduces his speed (both reducing his value). He plays and is rubbish. He doesn't play. He comes back low on confidence from this situations and never regains his previous form. etc etc. I realise these are overly negative, but your scenarios are best case and I am trying to offer balance.

 

 

Godfrey, Lewis, Arrons. Worst defensive record we’ve ever had in the top flight yet Aarons is ready to play for one of the top teams in the world. Whatever. Do a deal grab the money, he has potential but he is not a defender who is ready for that league let alone for that level of team. And he may never be. There are currently better fullbacks in the Championship.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

A bit yes, but if Todd and Ben lose their mates to higher leagues you can be assured they will want to follow them ASAP and if we lose three how does that affect the team overall (The amount of new players) and the fact we probably won’t replace them adequately.   

No doubt there are no easy answers but the plan can’t work when you have to replace 14 squad players after a relegation!    That’s not sustainable.   The squad needs stability.     We will be back where we were when Farke arrived albeit much richer!   

You can't have it both ways, though; you said there were loads of players who weren't good enough for the PL and needed to be replaced. 'Stability' would surely represent sticking with players who failed dismally at PL level but might be OK at Championship level? If we get through this window and only lose Max and Jamal (as well as binning off Trybull, Leitner and Drmic), we're in decent shape. If we lose Emi before the end of the window, I full expect us to make a creative signing to try to fill the huge gap he will leave.

[hogesar 9,618]

4 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Godfrey, Lewis, Arrons. Worst defensive record we’ve ever had in the top flight yet Aarons is ready to play for one of the top teams in the world. Whatever. Do a deal grab the money, he has potential but he is not a defender who is ready for that league let alone for that level of team. And he may never be. There are currently better fullbacks in the Championship.

Well yeah but you hate pretty much everything to do with NCFC so you might be a little pessimistic on this one.

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

3 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Godfrey, Lewis, Arrons. Worst defensive record we’ve ever had in the top flight yet Aarons is ready to play for one of the top teams in the world. Whatever. Do a deal grab the money, he has potential but he is not a defender who is ready for that league let alone for that level of team. And he may never be. There are currently better fullbacks in the Championship.

When you're alone (I don't mean mashing the keyboard in your Y-fronts, I mean properly alone), do you ever have little moments of reflection where you think "I wonder what it would feel like if I could try to be positive once in a while?"

[hogesar 9,618]

4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

When you're alone (I don't mean mashing the keyboard in your Y-fronts, I mean properly alone), do you ever have little moments of reflection where you think "I wonder what it would feel like if I could try to be positive once in a while?"

His wife tells me:

"Sometimes I wake up grumpy."

"Other times I let him sleep."

[Uncle Fred 526]

When Barca come a calling you can’t say no, it up to the club to get a decent valuation and good luck to the lad

truly excited for him 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

6 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Godfrey, Lewis, Arrons. Worst defensive record we’ve ever had in the top flight yet Aarons is ready to play for one of the top teams in the world. Whatever. Do a deal grab the money, he has potential but he is not a defender who is ready for that league let alone for that level of team. And he may never be. There are currently better fullbacks in the Championship.

That’s just not a rational argument!    Ben, Max and Jamal were part of probably the youngest ever EPL defence, still learning their trade and very inexperienced..... add to that they had no defensive midfield cover and were left exposed constantly.     They did very well in the circumstances and surely you can’t deny they have great potential.   

[Jim Smith 2,314]

30 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Yep, we made him what he is; a brilliant young player who's attracting interest from one of the biggest clubs in the world.

When a club of that magnitude comes calling for one of your players, you make a deal.

No. You ask them to pay the going rate. If we have to give away our players just because a big club comes in for them then that blows a massive hole in the model. We shouldn’t stand in his way if they make a fair offer, not if they take the p**s. 

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

No. You ask them to pay the going rate. If we have to give away our players just because a big club comes in for them then that blows a massive hole in the model. We shouldn’t stand in his way if they make a fair offer, not if they take the p**s. 

I agree. Liverpool offering £8m for Jamal was taking the p*ss, and we told them where to go despite them being the PL champions.

If Webber can negotiate an 'obligation to buy' clause, that would be brilliant. If he can't, £5m for a one-season loan, exposing one of our assets to some of the world's greatest players and coaches, is a risk worth taking in my opinion. If you disagree, I respect that.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Just now, Feedthewolf said:

I agree. Liverpool offering £8m for Jamal was taking the p*ss, and we told them where to go despite them being the PL champions.

If Webber can negotiate an 'obligation to buy' clause, that would be brilliant. If he can't, £5m for a one-season loan, exposing one of our assets to some of the world's greatest players and coaches, is a risk worth taking in my opinion. If you disagree, I respect that.

Agree to disagree then. I can see your point snd I would accept we could end up owning a player asset who has increased his value if he does well there but equally it could go the other way or he could break his leg or something.  I’m just not sure £5m helps us enough at this moment in time to compensate for the loss of our best full back. 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

11 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

You can't have it both ways, though; you said there were loads of players who weren't good enough for the PL and needed to be replaced. 'Stability' would surely represent sticking with players who failed dismally at PL level but might be OK at Championship level? If we get through this window and only lose Max and Jamal (as well as binning off Trybull, Leitner and Drmic), we're in decent shape. If we lose Emi before the end of the window, I full expect us to make a creative signing to try to fill the huge gap he will leave.

No, not both ways.   If players aren’t good enough and trust we agree that unfortunately too many weren’t, they have to be replaced.   But because they weren’t good enough, it means we can’t allow too many of our capable lads to leave.     That seems obvious.    Had those players proved good enough it would be easier to sell the jewels, sadly they didn’t.    Hopefully this new intake will prove better quality but they still need stability (a settled team) and time to thrive.    

I agree that  Aaron’s moving to Barca is something to embrace and be proud of, but not to our detriment!   A £5m Loan fee in my view isn’t enough for the potential disruption and potential failure to get back to the prem!   It could and possibly will cost us a lot more.     We can’t really do much in the market with £5m to replace him

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

8 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Agree to disagree then. I can see your point snd I would accept we could end up owning a player asset who has increased his value if he does well there but equally it could go the other way or he could break his leg or something.  I’m just not sure £5m helps us enough at this moment in time to compensate for the loss of our best full back. 

When you frame it that way, it does sound pretty bleak. But we have five decent CBs (plus Famewo as backup), so three at the back might open up a different way of playing. I'm thinking something like Wolves's 3-4-2-1, where you have three CBs (including Godfrey, who is mobile and can step out with the ball), a double pivot in front for defensive solidity, then two exciting wide players (Placheta is pretty much as fast as Adama Traore!), and two creative players behind the striker. It's essentially a 5v5 split between attack and defence, but the wingers can drop deep if we need to protect a lead and counter, and then we have four attacking players bombing forward to support Pukki (plus one of the deep midfielders too if necessary). This is the only reason I can see for leaving us so unprotected in the full-back positions.

[Alex Moss 2,165]

An amazing opportunity and he’ll go there with most of our blessings. The truth is that he’s not a Norwich fan and will be champing at the bit to make this happen. In fact his Twitter bio just reads ‘England’ and ‘Adidas’, I assume he conscientiously left ‘Norwich’ out of this unlike most of our players that happily or proudly state they represent us. There’s some really good points made on both sides of the fence in this thread, and he will get his move - I feel it’s important that we show young talented players that they won’t be held back where reasonable or we’ll set a very dangerous precedent indeed if we’re trying to attract future top prospects with them armed with the knowledge that we’ll refuse to sell them to a Barcelona or Liverpool (although we were absolutely correct in doing so with Liverpool at that point as that lot took the p155 with the Lewis offer). Handled correctly, this could be a move we can maximise to our advantage in future when attracting the next kids through one of the countries surely best academies of present day.

Ultimately I wish Max well but we must look after our interests as well and absolutely get the very most amount of money we can for him - he has to respect that. And I do trust Stuart Webber to do that 110%. 

Btw watch the Norwich City behind the scenes of Preston game day and look at Max’s body language throughout. I’m no psychologist but it’s not hard to see his heart isn’t at Carrow Rd, to me he looked like his mind is entirely somewhere else especially when walking down the tunnel and that half hearted fist bump with the City employee without as much a smile to the chap speaks volumes. He looks like a player being held against his will if I’m honest.

One things for sure, when Webber finally opens up about what went of with this transfers, it’ll surely be a fascinating story for us all.

[HazzaJet 252]

Webber came to this club to try and make us an established PL team. Due to us not being financially strong, he hasn’t been able to spend much, so has mainly looked for cheap players that look like they will turn out really well. The majority have been good signings, although a few have failed.

Despite going straight back down last season promotion was a bonus for us as most of our players got some PL experience, something that very few had when we went up and is a key asset for PL survival. As we have no need to sell we need to try and keep all our key players from last season as their PL experience could seriously help us out in our bid to bounce straight back this season, and if we do manage to bounce back it would increase our chances of survival next season.

To all the big clubs that were heavily hit by Covid-19, it’s your own fault for making ridiculous transfer bids and offering ridiculous wages to players, and in my opinion if one of the biggest clubs in the world that does this kind of thing thinks that a very young defender from a Championship team with the worst defensive record last season really is good enough for them, then Aarons must surely be worth at least £50m, not £20m + £10m add ons
 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

17 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

One things for sure, when Webber finally opens up about what went of with this transfers, it’ll surely be a fascinating story for us all.

That's one biography I'd definitely be up for reading some day.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1308518303153950720

a twist in the tale perhaps?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Have to wonder if Max is being used in the same way Jamal was by Liverpool. These big clubs don’t really give a t**s about any collateral damage do they. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

On 22/09/2020 at 22:29, Tetteys Jig said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1308518303153950720

a twist in the tale perhaps?

 

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

6 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/DeadlineDayLive/status/1308518303153950720

a twist in the tale perhaps?

Barça close an agreement with Ajax for the transfer of Sergiño Dest

As Oriol Domènech explained on Esport3's "Onze" program, the Barça club will pay 20 million euros plus five in variables for the signing of the right winger

Drafting Sport322/09/2020 - 23.10  Updated 22/09/2020 - 23.24

 

 

Sergiño Dest, closer to signing for Barça

Barça and Ajax have reached an agreement for the transfer of Sergiño Dest, as Oriol Domènech explained on Esport3's "Onze" program. The deal is for 20 million euros plus five in variables, although it remains to be resolved when payments will be made for the replacement for Nelson Semedo, who will sign for Wolverhampton.

The Dutch player with US nationality is one of the most prominent right-backs in European football and is also convinced to sign for Barça, despite Bayern Munich having increased their initial offer in recent hours.

 

[Icecream Snow 761]

I thought that Barcelona and Bayern had agreed a deal for Dest of Ajax, with Dest preferring Bayern.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

got themselves a bargain there, fair play to them! Didn't realise Dest was 19

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

So, Aarons to Bayern?

[Branston Pickle 3,635]

At least Bayern aren’t (apparently) skint.  And they are absolutely flying.