Sin and the Sitti

[curious yellow 184]

If a striker is scoring he's doing his job. 

I remember people doubting if Grant Holt be good enough for the higher leagues. 

Some of these loans can be no win situations if you are judging by the quality of the opposition. 

It's a shame if Sinani is out on loan because we couldn't move Drmic. Sinani is an unknown quantity in our league and that could have been to our advantage. 

[All the Germans 1,075]

1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

This is my problem with our sucession planning;

Last year we signed Sam M, Melvin Sitti and lets add Daniel Sinani to that.

We obviously wanted to stay in the Premier League and had we, I could understand these three going on loan.

However dropping to the Champ surely these to be utilised, not re-loaned.

Promotion as to be our aim, if we get promoted, these 3 are back to sqaure one.

To add insult to injury, we've now got one fit (loaned) left back and a struggle to put the ball in the back on the net.

If the answer is, they're not good enough then you have to question the investment we have made.

Your problem with it is your expectations of the signings. It isn't a case if they break into the first team and play regularly, it is a success and if they don't, it's a failure. Who's to say they were ever destined for first team but instead procured with the sole intention of earning money? Loan fees, resale value for little or no outlay.  I am not saying that is the intention, but just because you have different expectations, that does not mean that was the intention.

[CDMullins 436]

9 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Your problem with it is your expectations of the signings. It isn't a case if they break into the first team and play regularly, it is a success and if they don't, it's a failure. Who's to say they were ever destined for first team but instead procured with the sole intention of earning money? Loan fees, resale value for little or no outlay.  I am not saying that is the intention, but just because you have different expectations, that does not mean that was the intention.

I think I understand what you're trying to say;

But not sure it applies to us, were not Man City, we dont have an abudance of cash to invest in these sorts of deals.

Sam McCallum is our biggest transfer fee since Pritchard in 2016, there has to be an expectation that he will be atleast cover for the first team whilst we are in the Championship, yet hes farmed out again leaving us with no cover LB.

Current systems appear very naive and we seem to be making the same mistakes we made last year.

[Indy 3,298]

I think the reality is that we aren’t buying youngsters primarily to better our squad, we’re buying young to develop to sell, that’s why it’s better to loan these youngsters out to ensure they get game time and develop to gain a return. By sitting on the bench here they’re not gaining experience, thus not adding potential value.

The older players have been kept here to cover positions.

If a couple are good enough to break into our squad then it’s an added bonus.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Indy

[curious yellow 184]

25 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Your problem with it is your expectations of the signings. It isn't a case if they break into the first team and play regularly, it is a success and if they don't, it's a failure. Who's to say they were ever destined for first team but instead procured with the sole intention of earning money? Loan fees, resale value for little or no outlay.  I am not saying that is the intention, but just because you have different expectations, that does not mean that was the intention.

It's a dangerous game, inflating the squad and expecting players to leave. 

We've been caught out, we are short in key positions and have players who won't play stuck on the books

We're now looking for a centre back on loan when it was probably a better idea to keep Famewo. 

It's great to build for the future but we have to think about the present. We should have learned that from last season. 

[Icecream Snow 761]

42 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

I think I understand what you're trying to say;

But not sure it applies to us, were not Man City, we dont have an abudance of cash to invest in these sorts of deals.

Sam McCallum is our biggest transfer fee since Pritchard in 2016, there has to be an expectation that he will be atleast cover for the first team whilst we are in the Championship, yet hes farmed out again leaving us with no cover LB.

Current systems appear very naive and we seem to be making the same mistakes we made last year.

But as Webber has pointed out, the £3-3.5m as reported by Coventry is the maximum value of a structured package, it's not anywhere near the upfront or guaranteed amount that Coventry are getting.

We're buying players based on potential because the price for a Championship defender with 40+ games starts at around £15m, so some of our signings might not work out.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,163]

59 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

I think I understand what you're trying to say;

But not sure it applies to us, were not Man City, we dont have an abudance of cash to invest in these sorts of deals.

Sam McCallum is our biggest transfer fee since Pritchard in 2016, there has to be an expectation that he will be atleast cover for the first team whilst we are in the Championship, yet hes farmed out again leaving us with no cover LB.

Current systems appear very naive and we seem to be making the same mistakes we made last year.

I don't know where you get that idea from. Hugill was widely reported as costing us £2.6 million. If you'd bothered to read any of the interviews Webber did after we signed McCallum you'd have seen that he made it very clear that the up-front fee for McCallum was in the region of £1.2 million. 

[Alex Moss 2,165]

1 hour ago, curious yellow said:

It's a dangerous game, inflating the squad and expecting players to leave. 

We've been caught out, we are short in key positions and have players who won't play stuck on the books

We're now looking for a centre back on loan when it was probably a better idea to keep Famewo. 

It's great to build for the future but we have to think about the present. We should have learned that from last season. 

I would imagine the reason that Famewo was loaned out to Charlton was because Webber and Farke already knew that if another CB was needed to be brought in, as is the case now, then we’d get someone for the first team who was either a more experienced player or a young player (such as Saliba) who they deem more ‘ready’. 

[All the Germans 1,075]

2 hours ago, CDMullins said:

I think I understand what you're trying to say;

But not sure it applies to us, were not Man City, we dont have an abudance of cash to invest in these sorts of deals.

Sam McCallum is our biggest transfer fee since Pritchard in 2016, there has to be an expectation that he will be atleast cover for the first team whilst we are in the Championship, yet hes farmed out again leaving us with no cover LB.

Current systems appear very naive and we seem to be making the same mistakes we made last year.

I'd argue that it's because we're not Man City that this is a route that we are exploring. If Man City make 10m, they throw it in the pile with the rest of the cash. If we make 10m, it materially improves our position. I agree that it's a more risky approach for us because, by the same logic, if Man City wastes 5m it is irrelevant, if we do then it has consequences.

I'm just playing devils advocate, I have no idea if this is our philosophy, I just don't think it is quite so binary good or bad.

[hogesar 9,658]

I'm not really sure what the point is. Very few clubs sign young players who instantly are ready for the first team, without spending 10s of millions even at this level. If we were happy with midtable this season then it would be easier to integrate these youngsters and give them game time but how many on here would be happy with that? Few if any, I reckon.

Its hardly surprising that they'll go out on loan for at least a season.

[curious yellow 184]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I'm not really sure what the point is. Very few clubs sign young players who instantly are ready for the first team, without spending 10s of millions even at this level. If we were happy with midtable this season then it would be easier to integrate these youngsters and give them game time but how many on here would be happy with that? Few if any, I reckon.

Its hardly surprising that they'll go out on loan for at least a season.

Sinani isn't a youngster, one year away is a third of his contract and its looking that he could be useful now. 

Two seasons ago the young players came into the side and helped us to the title. If we are intent on promotion this season, the plan should be more short term. 

[hogesar 9,658]

19 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

Sinani isn't a youngster, one year away is a third of his contract and its looking that he could be useful now. 

Two seasons ago the young players came into the side and helped us to the title. If we are intent on promotion this season, the plan should be more short term. 

Just because he isn't as young as other players who have came in and helped us to the title doesnt automatically mean hes ready in his development. There are loads of examples of players who don't reach their highest level till far later in their careers. Our coaches have seen enough to suggest that he wouldn't significantly help our team and would develop better with regular football elsewhere. I reckon they know better than us, since the same team of people identified him in the first place, and have therefore likely watched 10's of matches the lad has played.

[LaUnionCanary 86]

Grant Holt being a prime example of late development.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

I think people have to be more realistic with their expectations for Sinani. Ever since the signing was confirmed six months ago, it seems several people on here expected him to be a first team player, but the jump is absolutely huge from where he came from.

OK, he's 23, but he's joining from an amateur division. The step up is massive, and just because he scored twice against Cyprus, a side who'd probably struggle in League Two, doesn't suddenly mean Sinani would start banging them in against Championship opposition.

Let's see how he does on loan in Belgium this season, and then we can reassess him next summer.

[curious yellow 184]

We understand how the development scheme works but Placheta has made that step up and been successful. 

Many of us thought that Sinani and McCullum were bought to go in the first team squad and this appeared to be confirmed when they were included for the pre-season friendlies. 

Sinani is a full international player and he's not been playing against Cyprus every game. If he doesn't get too much game time in Belgium it could be that his club see him as back up and prefer to develop their own players. 

It could be an opportunity missed for us but the disturbing part is that he was moved because other players didn't move. If so, this is a huge mistake by the club because it reduces the back-up possibilities-which cost us dearly last season. 

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,163]

Late match winner for Sinani tonight for Luxembourg away to Montenegro. He does seem to know where the net is. 🙂 

[Norfolk Dan 308]

It's taken me a while. But found a link to the highlights. Super goal by Sinani. 

 

Montenegro V Luxembourg

 

 

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Maddison-esque finish. Certainly got a great Left foot. Will be fascinating to see him against better opposition.

[Clint 221]

Montenegro are ranked 63rd in the world so they’re a big improvement on Cyprus. Similar level to Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Greece and Bulgaria. Not a great deal lower than Scotland! 

[Move Klose 303]

11 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Late match winner for Sinani tonight for Luxembourg away to Montenegro. He does seem to know where the net is. 🙂 

We have a break clause to bring him back in January.

Does anyone actually no where his position is, striker, no10, wide ?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 10/10/2020 at 18:13, CDMullins said:

Sam McCallum is our biggest transfer fee since Pritchard in 2016

Biggest transfer fee since Pritchard would have been Yanic Wildschut which was 6 months after Pritchard.

Oliviera also signed after Pritchard, although only by a month. 

But yes, you'd expect to be signing a first team member when dropping a few million.

Edited October 15, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 11/10/2020 at 08:14, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I think people have to be more realistic with their expectations for Sinani. Ever since the signing was confirmed six months ago, it seems several people on here expected him to be a first team player, but the jump is absolutely huge from where he came from.

OK, he's 23, but he's joining from an amateur division. The step up is massive, and just because he scored twice against Cyprus, a side who'd probably struggle in League Two, doesn't suddenly mean Sinani would start banging them in against Championship opposition.

Let's see how he does on loan in Belgium this season, and then we can reassess him next summer.

Yeah pretty much.

Should imagine he's been told what we want him to work on as well, and that we may have told his loan club where we'd prefer him to play.

[YellaYellowYella 51]

On 11/10/2020 at 13:40, curious yellow said:

We understand how the development scheme works but Placheta has made that step up and been successful. 

Many of us thought that Sinani and McCullum were bought to go in the first team squad and this appeared to be confirmed when they were included for the pre-season friendlies. 

Sinani is a full international player and he's not been playing against Cyprus every game. If he doesn't get too much game time in Belgium it could be that his club see him as back up and prefer to develop their own players. 

It could be an opportunity missed for us but the disturbing part is that he was moved because other players didn't move. If so, this is a huge mistake by the club because it reduces the back-up possibilities-which cost us dearly last season. 

He's a striker. Are you saying he's going to get in ahead of Pukki, Hugill and Idah? 

He was clearly bought as Pukki's replacement. Let's leave Sinani to impress out in Belgium.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 10/10/2020 at 19:06, Icecream Snow said:

We're buying players based on potential because the price for a Championship defender with 40+ games starts at around £15m,

Eh? Is that fake news?

There's been literally six Championship defenders move for £15m or more, ever, and two of those had just come off the back of a full season in the Premier League. 

The price for a Championship defender starts at £0, which is how much Blackburn just paid for Daniel Ayala. 

Sheffield United just paid £5.5m a piece for Jayden Bogle and Max Lowe! 

Edited October 16, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten