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Doomcaster

Sell Cantwell or Buendia?

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11 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Cantwell on the other hand operates on a position we are well stocked in.

Well stocked, yes, but they should be understudies for Todd. The new signings have proven nothing yet and it would be dangerous to sell one of our best talents if there’s no need to, given the new lads are of an unproven quality for us just yet. We cannot just assume they will fit in. We need players like Todd if we want to grow in the Premier League next season (with any luck of course). Last season where he broke out showed exactly what he could do. Other people have suggested he’s more suited to the Prem than the Champ. An interesting thought but an unfounded one given he only got the odd game 2 seasons ago, and so that remains to be seen as far as I’m concerned. One thing I have no doubt about is that he’s grown as a player rapidly these last couple of years, and crucially links superbly with Pukki (I can also see a chemistry forming there with Idah and Teemu also). He could be frightening in the Prem with another season of football under his belt.

As a self sustaining club, we cannot buy this kind of £30mil+ quality at the stage of the development that Todd is at. We must grow them ourselves. I cannot see any good reason to sell Todd. I’d rather loan out/sell some of the excess and new boys, and keep our very best players.

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23 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

There aren't many things that trigger me, but under appreciating Todd Cantwell is one of them.

It is surreal how many of our fans don't appreciate him and are pretty vocal about it- we had the same thing with the Murphy's too so not sure what drives it.

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5 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Well stocked, yes, but they should be understudies for Todd. The new signings have proven nothing yet and it would be dangerous to sell one of our best talents if there’s no need to, given the new lads are of an unproven quality for us just yet. We cannot just assume they will fit in. We need players like Todd if we want to grow in the Premier League next season (with any luck of course). Last season where he broke out showed exactly what he could do. Other people have suggested he’s more suited to the Prem than the Champ. An interesting thought but an unfounded one given he only got the odd game 2 seasons ago, and so that remains to be seen as far as I’m concerned. One thing I have no doubt about is that he’s grown as a player rapidly these last couple of years, and crucially links superbly with Pukki (I can also see a chemistry forming there with Idah and Teemu also). He could be frightening in the Prem with another season of football under his belt.

As a self sustaining club, we cannot buy this kind of £30mil+ quality at the stage of the development that Todd is at. We must grow them ourselves. I cannot see any good reason to sell Todd. I’d rather loan out/sell some of the excess and new boys, and keep our very best players.

Yes agree with this completely, hence why I said 'if we had to sell one of the two' in my post. Of course keeping them both would be exceptional, but Buendia would definitely be the priority for me if a gun was to my head.

Feel free to aim your post at @lake district canary instead though 😄 

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If we have to sell then I hope we sell my favorit Norwich players (Cantwell)

The reason is the length of his contract.

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1 hour ago, Doomcaster said:

NCFC will sell/off load free/loan a few more players - as we are way too heavy within the squad

If Buendia can get his head together with Farke - he is the best player we have in creating chances in the Championship - stats with him in the team and we win matches are outstanding (Championship)

I would sell Cantwell for any cash over £5m - just cash in whilst he has some value

Just my opinion ...

utter tosh! Just don't understand the hostility toward Cantwell spouted by some so-called fans. Find me a genuine tv football pundit, or a member of the England international management team, or a member of City's management team (et al) who thinks anything other than that Todd is a highly talented footballer. His individual performances in the PL last season stood out as genuinely belonging to that league; the  number of assists and goals he accumulated obviously attest to that. Further, for those who claim  he did nothing in Saturday's game I suggest you take a look at our goal again. I t was Cantwell who persistently harried two town players into reverse gear leading to the back pass that lead to the goal. 

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3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yes agree with this completely, hence why I said 'if we had to sell one of the two' in my post. Of course keeping them both would be exceptional, but Buendia would definitely be the priority for me if a gun was to my head.

Feel free to aim your post at @lake district canary instead though 😄 

Ha ha, that wasn’t all aimed at you pal, only an initial reply as to why Todd should be number 1 over the new boys - I just carried on with my thoughts in general : )

Does Lakey think we should sell Todd then?

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1 minute ago, horsefly said:

utter tosh! Just don't understand the hostility toward Cantwell spouted by some so-called fans. Find me a genuine tv football pundit, or a member of the England international management team, or a member of City's management team (et al) who thinks anything other than that Todd is a highly talented footballer. His individual performances in the PL last season stood out as genuinely belonging to that league; the  number of assists and goals he accumulated obviously attest to that. Further, for those who claim  he did nothing in Saturday's game I suggest you take a look at our goal again. I t was Cantwell who persistently harried two town players into reverse gear leading to the back pass that lead to the goal. 

His sliding pass to set Onel free while flat on his back was something to behold as well.

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2 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Ha ha, that wasn’t all aimed at you pal, only an initial reply as to why Todd should be number 1 over the new boys - I just carried on with my thoughts in general : )

Does Lakey think we should sell Todd then?

Fair enough my mistake!

He did! Pages 3-4 of the ''Todd Can'twell'' thread. Not sure if he is still of the same opinion however, hopefully he's been convinced away from this view..

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3 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

His sliding pass to set Onel free while flat on his back was something to behold as well.

A few of our breaks/ chances came from some quick passes on the turn from him. He worked pretty hard pressing too and am always a little surprised at the negative reactions he gets. 

There's no doubt we need a player like him or Buendia in this league. Ideally both as they are the two that can unpick a packed defense when teams sit in. 

 

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3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

utter tosh! Just don't understand the hostility toward Cantwell spouted by some so-called fans. Find me a genuine tv football pundit, or a member of the England international management team, or a member of City's management team (et al) who thinks anything other than that Todd is a highly talented footballer. His individual performances in the PL last season stood out as genuinely belonging to that league; the  number of assists and goals he accumulated obviously attest to that. Further, for those who claim  he did nothing in Saturday's game I suggest you take a look at our goal again. I t was Cantwell who persistently harried two town players into reverse gear leading to the back pass that lead to the goal. 

I genuinely don’t believe any City supporter is that unbelievably thick that they can’t see Todd is nothing other than a great talent, who will only get better and better (possible career injuries aside of course).

So, that leaves either a personal grievance, which is possible as he’s a local lad, or just that life isn’t great for them and they know they’ll get some attention from the ridiculous nonsense they post. I do wish Todd wouldn’t bite though. Because the fact is it really is a ridiculously small amount of City ‘supporters’ that appear to feel that way. 99% of the NCFC faithful know his worth.

Sad thing is that the detractors are too dense to see the bigger picture that this is only counter productive for our clubs fortunes. T055£R5 🤦🏻‍♂️

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Cantwell suffers at the hands of some deluded numpties because he's not a Maddison. Maddison's skills are far more glaringly obvious in terms of goal output, set pieces, etc. Cantwell doesn't quite have the same goal threat (although I reckon if he stays he could be around double figures if he has a clean run at the whole season).

Fact is, Cantwell's a good picker of a pass, is good on the ball in tight spaces which is a fine indicator of his technical ability, and is good at finding small pockets in which to work. It's also looking like he's finding a slightly feistier streak to his off-the-ball / defensive game too which is something I've always felt he did need to add (although that's the hyper-competitive wing-back in me talking there).

He took to the Premiership brilliantly. Many of us thought he was going to need a loan out as he hadn't completely convinced in the Championship last time out, but he really came of age in there. I actually think he and Godfrey are the two where if anything, a season in the Championship would really polish them up nicely.

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Very early days but it looks as though Dowell will need a bit of work before he is anywhere near the quality of Todd or Emi. With Skipp likely to be a shoe-in and McLean too, creativity will be the issue for our midfield. Imperative we keep both Todd an Emi, regardless of the offer imo.

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34 minutes ago, king canary said:

It is surreal how many of our fans don't appreciate him and are pretty vocal about it- we had the same thing with the Murphy's too so not sure what drives it.

It is seen at many clubs, where despite craving home grown players, they are often more harshly treated than players signed. Part of it is that you see all of that player's development and unless they come into the team fully up to speed, like Aarons or Lewis, fans will always keep that first impression of them. 

It is also due to having too high an expectation for a player - with the Murphys in the Youth Cup I think many expected those two to be Champions' League players going onto top 6 clubs. So when they turned out to be top end Championship/bottom end Prem players then many felt they had underachieved (despite this being a very big achievement for players and club).

Cantwell has been hyped for a long time and as he hasn't arrived fully formed then many think he isn't that good. If Norwich had signed him last summer and then he'd gone on to have the season he just did, most would be saying he is the best player at the club. Add in some people having slightly old fashioned beliefs about player's haircuts and how they should dress, then it creates a bit of a perfect storm for some.

Cantwell looks as if he could be the greatest ever footballer to come from Norfolk (not a huge amount of competition I grant you). My main concern is that he also has the least time on his contract out of the 'crown jewels' and signed his current one before he broke though, meaning he is probably on the least wages. If we don't see a contract extension from him before January we are starting to see his value eroded.

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We do face a bit of a dilemma in that if Emi starts banging them in coupled with his usual swashbuckling performances, this will surely increase our chances of losing him. So I wouldn’t mind Emi and Todd being a bit quiet for the next few weeks up until the end of the transfer window and letting the others get the (hopefully) match winners.


@Bethnal Yellow and Green raises a good point. Ideally, as unlikely as it sounds, Todd will sign a new contract. For me, that would be the best news ever. If not, I think we’ll be forced to sell him in January unfortunately, perhaps even to a club he’s not so keen to sign for. Though promotion at the end of the season could see him sign another if we took that gamble. He appears a real family lad though so perhaps during these younger years that may still help his decision in ours and his favour - in 18 months time we could be doing a Sheffield United for all we know. A tough one.

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I must have missed those offers for our players this therefore is an academic argument Emi or Todd.  As the transfer window is closing I don't see any moves.  Perhaps we have an over estimation of the ability of our players seemingly no interest from PL.

I would not wish to see any moves out, an inflated squad may be necessary with the games coming thick and fast. 

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Look. Enough of the villification of those that are prepared to criticise a player.  I like him, up to a point, but I don't believe he is good enough, often enough - yet. 

If he does stay, then he has to learn to dictate a game more, because the position he is likely to be played this season - that central attacking midfield position - demands that.  Dictating play, scoring more or at least getting in more shooting positions and generally taking more responsibility on the ball, rather than just play an easy pass, which is what he did quite a lot of the time last season. 

It's called upping your game and yes, expecting more from him. I think that is a normal expectation for any young player - expecting them to improve and develop their game. Great to see what he has achieved so far, he has definitely grown in stature as a footballer, but he has to carry on developing and improving.

Would he be better off moving to develop his career - maybe. Do we want him to move? It's a funny question really, because if he wants to move and is going to be sold anyway, then yes, I want him to go, but if he wants to stay, then I will think great, now show us what you can become as a player. 

The contract issue is one of his own making (or maybe it was his agent). Just signing a shortish contract was not in his favour for staying a long time at this club.  For the club, the team and the squad has to evolve and that is the reason why we have so many new players in - because the higher profile players may be sold on and the truth is that if another club matches our valuations of either Todd or Buendia, then one or both of them they are likely to move.

As for the idolisation of "one of our own", well I am beyond that kind of thinking, I think he is a young player with loads of talent, but still has to show a bit more maturity if he is going to be the force in the game that his talent suggests.

 

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29 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

It is seen at many clubs, where despite craving home grown players, they are often more harshly treated than players signed. Part of it is that you see all of that player's development and unless they come into the team fully up to speed, like Aarons or Lewis, fans will always keep that first impression of them. 

It is also due to having too high an expectation for a player - with the Murphys in the Youth Cup I think many expected those two to be Champions' League players going onto top 6 clubs. So when they turned out to be top end Championship/bottom end Prem players then many felt they had underachieved (despite this being a very big achievement for players and club).

Cantwell has been hyped for a long time and as he hasn't arrived fully formed then many think he isn't that good. If Norwich had signed him last summer and then he'd gone on to have the season he just did, most would be saying he is the best player at the club. Add in some people having slightly old fashioned beliefs about player's haircuts and how they should dress, then it creates a bit of a perfect storm for some.

Cantwell looks as if he could be the greatest ever footballer to come from Norfolk (not a huge amount of competition I grant you). My main concern is that he also has the least time on his contract out of the 'crown jewels' and signed his current one before he broke though, meaning he is probably on the least wages. If we don't see a contract extension from him before January we are starting to see his value eroded.

They are few and far between Beth. But i'm thinking Maurice Norman and Barry Bridges. If Todd can emulate them it would be awesome.

But will he retire and get a paper shop in West Earlham...

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As they both have PL experience now I think it would probably be best keep them as they could turn out handy this season in our promotion campaign. As the start to this season has been delayed there are also a lot more midweek fixtures crammed in, and so to keep as many of our best players as possible would be great in case of this causes fatigue to players in the run up to following fixtures (that’s why I think it’s good to be out of the cup, the next round is played over the course of tomorrow, Wednesday, and Thursday nights)

If we do manage to bounce straight back up, their PL experience could also turn out vital in our fight for PL survival

 

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1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Very early days but it looks as though Dowell will need a bit of work before he is anywhere near the quality of Todd or Emi. With Skipp likely to be a shoe-in and McLean too, creativity will be the issue for our midfield. Imperative we keep both Todd an Emi, regardless of the offer imo.

Creativity is a big issue from midfielder. Buendia creates more chances than Todd. That was part of my thinking of Todd being the one to leave. 

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35 minutes ago, pete said:

I must have missed those offers for our players this therefore is an academic argument Emi or Todd.  As the transfer window is closing I don't see any moves.  Perhaps we have an over estimation of the ability of our players seemingly no interest from PL.

I would not wish to see any moves out, an inflated squad may be necessary with the games coming thick and fast. 

There’s an article regarding a scout specially sent to watch Todd on Saturday, that could be the reasoning behind this thread.

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

They are few and far between Beth. But i'm thinking Maurice Norman and Barry Bridges. If Todd can emulate them it would be awesome.

But will he retire and get a paper shop in West Earlham...

Danny Mills got 19 international caps & Mark Barham's couple are largely forgotton. Chris Sutton won titles in England & Scotland. Neither Mills or Sutton are particularly popular with the haters so @Bethnal Yellow and Green's theory about "ones of our own" seem spot on.

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7 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Danny Mills got 19 international caps & Mark Barham's couple are largely forgotton. Chris Sutton won titles in England & Scotland. Neither Mills or Sutton are particularly popular with the haters so @Bethnal Yellow and Green's theory about "ones of our own" seem spot on.

To be fair, Todd is clearly a good lad, whereas Danny Mills deserves a few f***s fired into him as far as I’m concerned - and not for reasons that he’s ‘one of our own’. It’s simply because he’s a helmet.

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2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Look. Enough of the villification of those that are prepared to criticise a player.  I like him, up to a point, but I don't believe he is good enough, often enough - yet. 

 

 

Shame you're wrong. Unless of course you know better than our coaching staff, and the scouts from a range of premier league clubs. Oh, and a bunch of fans of other premier league clubs who were admirers last season.

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I hope they both stay , unfortunately there seems to be a few todd haters on here ,i think there are certain aspects of his game he needs to work on , but he is a young and very inexperienced player who has qualities and given game time can improve, let's get behind him 😁

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1 minute ago, hogesar said:
2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Look. Enough of the villification of those that are prepared to criticise a player.  I like him, up to a point, but I don't believe he is good enough, often enough - yet.

Shame you're wrong. Unless of course you know better than our coaching staff, and the scouts from a range of premier league clubs. Oh, and a bunch of fans of other premier league clubs who were admirers last season.

All I am saying is that he could be better than he is now - or do you believe he is the finished article?  If it is the latter, then it is you who are wrong, because he is only 22 and will improve - if he keeps his head screwed on right and works hard at it. 

Shall I phrase so it is easier to understand?  He is good, but there are times when he isn't so good.  Does that help?  Or is he perfect in every way?  

 

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8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

All I am saying is that he could be better than he is now - or do you believe he is the finished article?  If it is the latter, then it is you who are wrong, because he is only 22 and will improve - if he keeps his head screwed on right and works hard at it. 

Shall I phrase so it is easier to understand?  He is good, but there are times when he isn't so good.  Does that help?  Or is he perfect in every way?  

 

I think most fans recognise he is not the finished article , but is very talented and will probably get there with game time.

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17 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

All I am saying is that he could be better than he is now - or do you believe he is the finished article?  If it is the latter, then it is you who are wrong, because he is only 22 and will improve - if he keeps his head screwed on right and works hard at it. 

Shall I phrase so it is easier to understand?  He is good, but there are times when he isn't so good.  Does that help?  Or is he perfect in every way?  

 

So you recognise that he’s not the finished article, and will get even better and better as he develops his game, yet you want to sell him to let the new boys come through as Todd’s not consistent enough right now and needs to improve?

 

 

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