Time to go, fat boy

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,181]

30 minutes ago, Jools said:

Unfortunately for your ilk, Hermo, political correctness and the 'woke' nonsense nauseates most normal people who are the majority.

The majority see you Lefties as oppressors and if you don't like what the former voted for and the way the country is going please feel free to leave...

Britain isn't a prison.

After Jan 1st, where will British people have freedom of movement to move to?

[Jools 584]

23 minutes ago, Herman said:

Aye, it just dawned on me what this appointment is about. They know he's a tw@. We know he's a tw@. (He probably knows it as well). They want us angry. The Proms nonsense was a bit of a failure so here's another turd on the fire.👍

Aye, the best possible argument for retaining the services of Tony Abbott, is to antagonise the Left 🤪

Abbott is good at getting free trade deals over the line and I'd hazard a guess that's what he's been hired for...

You Lefties really do behave like petulant children.

[A Load of Squit 5,133]

3 minutes ago, Jools said:

Aye, the best possible argument for retaining the services of Tony Abbott, is to antagonise the Left 🤪

Abbott is good at getting free trade deals over the line and I'd hazard a guess that's what he's been hired for...

You Lefties really do behave like petulant children.

That would be the lefty Daily Telegraph then.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/04/tony-abbott-many-things-trade-expert-dont-come-raw-prawn-mate/

Tony Abbott is many things, but a trade expert? Don't come the raw prawn, mate!

Far from a boon for Britain, the former PM's role could even be cunning ploy by Australia given how destabilising his presence seems to be

Tim Ward

Former Australian trade negotiator

Another epic fail from Jools. 😀

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

Appointing Abbott is actually a sign of Brexiter and govt. weakness. Obviously the existing trade negotiations with Truss are hardly a success so now they feel they need to turn to ever more disruptive foreigners to bolster their cause.

Sadly for them their counterparts are fully rational logical types that just look at the bald facts. They too will see it as a weakness.

The only good thing that Abbott may bring is a ruthless streak when it comes to insignificant tradeoffs. Fishing for instance is too small to get in the way of almost anything.

[Herman 9,717]

What is a really good way to run the country?

A) Appoint an oaf to upset the libs?

B)Appoint a competent person to get the best results?

 

 

[Jools 584]

3 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

That would be the lefty Daily Telegraph then.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/04/tony-abbott-many-things-trade-expert-dont-come-raw-prawn-mate/

Tony Abbott is many things, but a trade expert? Don't come the raw prawn, mate!

Far from a boon for Britain, the former PM's role could even be cunning ploy by Australia given how destabilising his presence seems to be

Tim Ward

Former Australian trade negotiator

Another epic fail from Jools. 😀

Nay, the Right-wing Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/03/boris-johnson-tony-abbott-trade-expertise

Abbott is not being lined up as a details man, but because he is an evangelist for free trade and his government signed deals with three of Asia’s biggest economies: China, Japan and South Korea. All these agreements had been worked on for years but Abbott got them over the line.

Abbott doesn’t claim to have Falconer’s grasp of the nitty-gritty, but that wouldn’t be his role. His job would be give log-jammed negotiations a political push and so get free trade deals over the line. Or as he put it to the Policy Exchange think-tank this week: “Look, obviously as prime minister you are not dealing with the minutiae of trade deals. You are dealing with things at the very highest of levels.

“You are reassuring heads of other governments that you would like to bring about a deal that is a win-win situation as soon as as possible, and you are encouraging senior officials not to be held up by things that are not all that important and not to be distracted by things that are not really issues of trade but might, for argument’s sake, be issues of the environment.”

One of these days you're actually going to formulate at least a half decent argument or point of view, you cumbersome oaf.

[Jools 584]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

What is a really good way to run the country?

A) Appoint an oaf to upset the libs?

B)Appoint a competent person to get the best results?

 

 

B) And they have 👍

[Jools 584]

I suppose you Lefties would've preferred Diane Abbott 😃

[Jools 584]

 

Tony Abbott's sister ~ Christine Forster

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

17 hours ago, Jools said:

 

Tony Abbott's sister ~ Christine Forster

 

She is describing Russ Abbott. We're getting Les Patterson.

What a brilliant Government you voted for. Not one of them can negotiate the deal we were told was a shoe in.

You lot are a bunch of chancers and market traders in sheepskin jackets

[sonyc 5,492]

21 hours ago, Jools said:

 

Tony Abbott's sister ~ Christine Forster

 

Says his sister....

Wonder what his mother might say about him.... "Anthony is a lovely boy..."

Edited September 5, 2020 by sonyc

[dylanisabaddog 4,871]

On 03/09/2020 at 15:10, Bill said:

we have a PM who lied for the immediate aim of winning the election

as with Johnson he seems to think that lying has no repercussions, and whatever follows he can also lie his way out of that

 

as to who would replace him, it would have to be someone not in the immediate circle

watch Hunt would be my thought....and at 25/1 a tenner would not be a bad bet

Boris will go next year and the only realistic challengers are Hunt and Sunak. I'm trying to think of a reason why Conservative party members wouldn't want Sunak...... 

[Herman 9,717]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/05/desperate-boris-johnson-to-step-up-personal-attacks-on-keir-starmer?utm_term=1f46f5ff72aedf2a55cbfb36c5c2b286&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

[Herman 9,717]

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,871]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/05/desperate-boris-johnson-to-step-up-personal-attacks-on-keir-starmer?utm_term=1f46f5ff72aedf2a55cbfb36c5c2b286&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email

It's worth reading this link. Wednesday's PMQs was embarrassing. Usually I just laugh at him but I was just shocked that a Prime Minister could perform so badly. Johnson is completely out of his depth and seems to be getting worse. If I was being generous I'd say he's been badly affected by Covid but perhaps it just needed Starmer to show him up for what he is. Totally incapable of thinking on his feet. 

[A Load of Squit 5,133]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

 

Before Tom Peck wrote that piece for the Telegraph did he have an understanding of what satire is?

"the use of humour, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues".

 

[Herman 9,717]

Slight misunderstanding. Tom Peck is one of the good guys. He's taking the mick out of it as well. (It's written by regular Torygraph idiot Christopher Hope).

[Barbe bleu 815]

50 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

It's worth reading this link. Wednesday's PMQs was embarrassing. Usually I just laugh at him but I was just shocked that a Prime Minister could perform so badly. Johnson is completely out of his depth and seems to be getting worse. If I was being generous I'd say he's been badly affected by Covid but perhaps it just needed Starmer to show him up for what he is. Totally incapable of thinking on his feet. 

I suspect that Starmer will increasingly want to present himself as a details man. 

It'll be part of a master plan that includes continuation of the purge of the hard left;  adoption of what will be marketed as pragmatic policies; subtle advancement of 'modern patriotism' and; a cessation  of all personal attacks on/ name calling of brexiteers or tory voters. 

Question is, will it be enough to overcome the alienation caused by the last regime or to overcome  or deflect away from the affable buffoon  shtick?

[A Load of Squit 5,133]

25 minutes ago, Herman said:

Slight misunderstanding. Tom Peck is one of the good guys. He's taking the mick out of it as well. (It's written by regular Torygraph idiot Christopher Hope).

Apologies to Tom.

Christopher Hope is an idiot.

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,871]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

I suspect that Starmer will increasingly want to present himself as a details man. 

It'll be part of a master plan that includes continuation of the purge of the hard left;  adoption of what will be marketed as pragmatic policies; subtle advancement of 'modern patriotism' and; a cessation  of all personal attacks on/ name calling of brexiteers or tory voters. 

Question is, will it be enough to overcome the alienation caused by the last regime or to overcome  or deflect away from the affable buffoon  shtick?

I joined the Labour Party the day he was appointed and recently sat in on a preliminary discussion about the next election. The hard left are still there and they're still bleating on about the right wing press picking on Jeremy. The fact that they have lost a string of elections against some of the worst Tory leaders in history seems to be totally lost on them. It seemed to me that they would rather continue with policies that no one will vote for and lose as opposed to being pragmatic and winning.  It doesn't dawn on them that they carry a lot of the blame for the mess we're in now. It was very depressing. Starmer will have more difficulties with his own members than he will with the Conservative party. I can't think of anyone better to deal with them but he should really be allowed to concentrate on fighting the right wing rather than the left wing. 

[Barbe bleu 815]

Funnily enough I think that the electorate would accept a move to the left. It would have to be presented in such a way that it will come across as 'considered' but in Starmer i think there is potentially  a man to pull this off.

The emotional aspect will be harder though i suspect.  For years now the left has been slowly alienating a lot of its latent support and its going to be difficult to get people that have been pushed away back in the boat, no matter how attractive the policies are. 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Barbe bleu

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

30 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I joined the Labour Party the day he was appointed and recently sat in on a preliminary discussion about the next election. The hard left are still there and they're still bleating on about the right wing press picking on Jeremy. The fact that they have lost a string of elections against some of the worst Tory leaders in history seems to be totally lost on them. It seemed to me that they would rather continue with policies that no one will vote for and lose as opposed to being pragmatic and winning.  It doesn't dawn on them that they carry a lot of the blame for the mess we're in now. It was very depressing. Starmer will have more difficulties with his own members than he will with the Conservative party. I can't think of anyone better to deal with them but he should really be allowed to concentrate on fighting the right wing rather than the left wing. 

I would agree with most of that but have never been a Labour party member. The so called 'hard' left though will never change its spots- they dream of a utopian world but much like the XR's fiasco yesterday yet are unable to be balanced or pragmatic about getting there - that said Sunak's current money tree is straight out of McDonnell's little red book and more! They simply belong in another party not the Labour party and which as a potential party of government needs to be rational, pragmatic, tolerant and inclusive.

As to the the Johnson party - yes chickens pretty much coming home to roost there - will I think implode all by itself when the Brexit knock-out punch occurs. As Starmer can't really change that script he's better to stand clear from the wreckage and offer a clear way out of the mess in 2021 when everybody is stone cold sober! Rather like Sturgeon is doing in Scotland.

[Bill 1,788]

23 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I joined the Labour Party the day he was appointed and recently sat in on a preliminary discussion about the next election. The hard left are still there and they're still bleating on about the right wing press picking on Jeremy. The fact that they have lost a string of elections against some of the worst Tory leaders in history seems to be totally lost on them. It seemed to me that they would rather continue with policies that no one will vote for and lose as opposed to being pragmatic and winning.  It doesn't dawn on them that they carry a lot of the blame for the mess we're in now. It was very depressing. Starmer will have more difficulties with his own members than he will with the Conservative party. I can't think of anyone better to deal with them but he should really be allowed to concentrate on fighting the right wing rather than the left wing. 

That is the argument the Trotskyites promote ie that the workers need to be shown that capitalism cannot be reformed, so in response those said workers will rise up to overthrow capitalism...... lead by a strong cadre of revolutionary leaders (them)

Whilst I have no disagreement of their analysis of capitalism, as we both have read enough Marx, I stand in complete opposition to their Trotskyite add on.

They should be honest and stand on that platform, not try to infiltrate a party that in the main has no agreement with their views. Views, which have that the end justifies the means. It doesn't. In fact, it is more that the means will determine the end.

If you start out by behaving as a party within a party using all manner of 'undemocratic' means to take control then that is where you will end up. Be it IS, SWP, Militant or Momentum it amounts to the same - and aside from the huge churn of 'foot soldiers' the main characters are never far from the top table, rrrrr...........revolutionaries to a comrade.

A committed group always ready to join in any dispute between wage labour and capital.... where they are more than helpful in holding the jackets while those directly roll up their sleeves.

However it is not, one sided, as the Tory party has the ERG and such like who would not wish capitalism to be smashed - but that it would be taken back to the mid 1800's at least.

Both highlight the absurdity of PR, as all that would happen is that these would have far greater leverage and a more disruptive affect on the body politic

 

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

That is the argument the Trotskyites promote ie that the workers need to be shown that capitalism cannot be reformed, so in response those said workers will rise up to overthrow capitalism...... lead by a strong cadre of revolutionary leaders (them)

Whilst I have no disagreement of their analysis of capitalism, as we both have read enough Marx, I stand in complete opposition to their Trotskyite add on.

They should be honest and stand on that platform, not try to infiltrate a party that in the main has no agreement with their views. Views, which have that the end justifies the means. It doesn't. In fact, it is more that the means will determine the end.

If you start out by behaving as a party within a party using all manner of 'undemocratic' means to take control then that is where you will end up. Be it IS, SWP, Militant or Momentum it amounts to the same - and aside from the huge churn of 'foot soldiers' the main characters are never far from the top table, rrrrr...........revolutionaries to a comrade.

A committed group always ready to join in any dispute between wage labour and capital.... where they are more than helpful in holding the jackets while those directly roll up their sleeves.

However it is not, one sided, as the Tory party has the ERG and such like who would not wish capitalism to be smashed - but that it would be taken back to the mid 1800's at least.

Both highlight the absurdity of PR, as all that would happen is that these would have far greater leverage and a more disruptive affect on the body politic

 

Most of that I can agree with - not sure our current FPTP is fit for purpose though else we shouldn't have had such an appalling choice at the last election! Am effective  PR system 'should' leave left or right extremists as pressure groups but not puppet masters.

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Most of that I can agree with - not sure our current FPTP is fit for purpose though else we shouldn't have had such an appalling choice at the last election! Am effective  PR system 'should' leave left or right extremists as pressure groups but not puppet masters.

It is in built with PR that you actually set smaller parties up as the tail wagging the dog, which is why so many governments on the continent fall so frequently

Most decisions are binary, so giving (say) the Green 10 seats would not affect any decision by that amount, but it could allow a tight decision to swung by them, thus opening up the possibilities of 'bribes' (see DUP)

There is also the fact that a huge chunk of local democracy is removed as voters are not voting for a specific candidate but a party, and so will have no choice on who is foistered on them.

It is a danger to democracy to peddle this myth about PR, as it encourages voters to think there is some mechanism that will change everything for the better. Whereas the fault lies with the lack of engagement by voters themselves.

how that changes is another argument, but until it does then we will have the mess of a government led by a blatant, liar - who is no more fit for the job than I am as mother superior at a convent for novice nuns

[Van wink 2,994]

3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I joined the Labour Party the day he was appointed and recently sat in on a preliminary discussion about the next election. The hard left are still there and they're still bleating on about the right wing press picking on Jeremy. The fact that they have lost a string of elections against some of the worst Tory leaders in history seems to be totally lost on them. It seemed to me that they would rather continue with policies that no one will vote for and lose as opposed to being pragmatic and winning.  It doesn't dawn on them that they carry a lot of the blame for the mess we're in now. It was very depressing. Starmer will have more difficulties with his own members than he will with the Conservative party. I can't think of anyone better to deal with them but he should really be allowed to concentrate on fighting the right wing rather than the left wing. 

Good post and I’m of a similar mind

[Surfer 1,547]

So November 5th will be interesting .... Brexit chaos just around the corner and protests in the streets already happened no doubt over the "lorry park" fiasco, the possibility of a vaccine, and the probability the US Election result is in "doubt" as mail in votes become the new "hanging chad" that lawyers are arguing over - can they be counted if the US Post Office fails to deliver them in time?

So assuming that Biden does win - and the polls suggest he will - what will Boris do? He's clearly hitched his wagon to the Trump train, and even more closely than we might have thought .....

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Surfer

[Jools 584]

3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I can't think of anyone better to deal with them but he should really be allowed to concentrate on fighting the right wing rather than the left wing. 

What Right-wing? Seriously, who is Right-wing in the current Conservative Party? There's a few who could be construed as centre-right, but the majority are the most liberal bunch there's ever been, including Boris. 

[Surfer 1,547]

3 minutes ago, Jools said:

What Right-wing? Seriously, who is Right-wing in the current Conservative Party? There's a few who could be construed as centre-right, but the majority are the most liberal bunch there's ever been, including Boris. 

We can argue where this group sits on the political spectrum, but one thing we can agree on. Neither the Tories or Republicans are what we have historically understood to be Conservatives. They are not socially conservative, economically conservative or morally conservative. They no longer respect law, agreements, conventions or civility. As to "liberal", if you mean liberal in spending other people's hard earned money on their own pet projects and political insiders, I agree with you. They reject everything that Conservatives have promoted for generations. All for power and a few billion Rubles apparently.

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

7 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

It's worth reading this link. Wednesday's PMQs was embarrassing. Usually I just laugh at him but I was just shocked that a Prime Minister could perform so badly. Johnson is completely out of his depth and seems to be getting worse. If I was being generous I'd say he's been badly affected by Covid but perhaps it just needed Starmer to show him up for what he is.

Totally incapable  of thinking on his feet. 

All true, but I think the slight edit above would improve it even further 😀