Kenny signs new contract until 2023

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

Just now, Indy_Bones said:

And yet the reason we won a number of those games was down to the difference that Vrancic made, combined with the fact that he gave us 10 goals and 7 assists compared to 3 goals and 6 assists in basically the same amount of game time as McLean had.

Vrancic gives us much greater passing range and creativity, as well as higher goalscoring to boot. Neither of them excel in a more defensive role, but in terms of what they bring to the team and how that enables us to play (or not), he's a far better choice in my personal opinion, as he unlocks the movement of our attackers FAR better, which is why Pukki spent the 2nd half of last season with limited supply and having to drop deeper, rather than being able to make his runs because someone like Vrancic has the ability to find them.

Vrancic can't last a season, can't defend and has the benefit of mostly coming on against tired legs. The guy is a one trick pony. Goes missing in games and has no effect on so many occasions.

If Vrancic left tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. If Kenny did, we would absolutely miss him. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

1 minute ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Vrancic can't last a season, can't defend and has the benefit of mostly coming on against tired legs. The guy is a one trick pony. Goes missing in games and has no effect on so many occasions.

If Vrancic left tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. If Kenny did, we would absolutely miss him. 

Forgive me, thinking about it, one trick pony is harsh. He can pass. He can take a decent free kick. Two tricks. 

[kick it off 1,948]

Just now, Terminally Yellow said:

Vrancic can't last a season, can't defend and has the benefit of mostly coming on against tired legs. The guy is a one trick pony. Goes missing in games and has no effect on so many occasions.

If Vrancic left tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. If Kenny did, we would absolutely miss him. 

Yep. All of those sideways passes would be sorely missed. Fotheringham 2.0 and your defence of a guy who rarely does anything of note is overcooked. When was the last time you though "F**king hell, Kenny was brilliant today"? It doesn't happen because he is very rarely brilliant.

I don't think he's a terrible player, but I just don't see what he brings to the team except winning some headers on the half way line and passing it sideways.

[Indy_Bones 441]

1 minute ago, Terminally Yellow said:

The fact is, who scored records everything and you can piece together arguments for everything. Frankly, for a player who didn't play in a position intended to o a lot of the things you've selectively chosen, I think you could argue those statistics show him in a positive light.

Wasn't intended to play there?

He's played in most positions across the centre of the midfield (and very occasionaly towards the side) and excelled in NONE of them.

If he's being constantly played incorrectly as you claim, then why the hell is he constantly selected for roles that don't suit him???

If you want defensive play, you take Tettey or Trybull, if you want creativity you play Vrancic, if you want someone to control the tempo you play Leitner, and either of Cantwell or Buendia are far superior in a no 10 role, so where exactly does McLean fit in here, despite not having a standout attribute in any meaningful way compared to his teammates?

Guess it's simply that he covers a lot of ground, which appears to be the new metric as to how good a player is to some on here...

[kick it off 1,948]

3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Forgive me, thinking about it, one trick pony is harsh. He can pass. He can take a decent free kick. Two tricks. 

How many tricks does Kenny have? You've identified two things Mario excels at... What are Kenny's comparable "outstanding" metrics?

and for the record, You can't start crying about Mario's defensive ability when Kenny is so damn weak in the tackle. They're both ****e defensively so you can't use their defensive ability as a stick to beat one without beating the other.

Edited September 2, 2020 by kick it off

[Indy_Bones 441]

7 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

If Vrancic left tomorrow, we wouldn't miss him. If Kenny did, we would absolutely miss him. 

We'd have missed him last time at this level, as his goals and assists were crucial in us acheiving promotion, and contributed far more to our success than McLean did.

I guess I just prefer someone who can pick out 50 yard passes, inch perfect through balls, who actually scores regularly and has a fantastic free kick to someone who simply runs a lot for 90 minutes, but what do I know?

Edited September 2, 2020 by Indy_Bones

[Indy 3,283]

Regardless of who’s better, the real question is why have we bought so many midfielders if we’re going to start with McClean and Rupp!

After a season in the top flight and money to buy and loan better players, I’d hope that Skipp and Sorensen will be a very much big step up from relying on a Rupp McClean midfield!

I think he’s been given a longer contract because he’s a decent championship playe and if we don’t go up he’s going to be useful at this level.

Pretty sure he’ll be moved on if we we’re to go up next year, but certainly a decent enough squad player at this level.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Indy

[Gordon Bennett 780]

I think we are going to see quite a bit of rotation this season with a shorter season so everyone will play a part at some point. I don’t expect all of the midfielders on the books to be here once the window slams shut but we will need plenty of them I expect. 

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

I don’t understand the criticism of McLean in terms of his defensive abilities. We’re going to be playing in the championship this season, not the PL, and in the championship, Kenny was vital for us. To say otherwise you either have a really bad memory, are blinded by the poor season just gone (where only 1 player can come out of the season with any real credit and he’s a gk), don’t understand football or have some irrational dislike to McLean.

Have a listen to the podcasts/whatever-they-were that the pinkun did to celebrate promotion, fronted my Mr Bailey. McLean was quite rightly lauded for his contribution to the season and the stats are all there to back it up, both defensively and as an attacking threat. Yes stats don’t tell the whole story blah blah and I’m clearly not going to change Mr Bones’ opinion (blimey!) but my opinion is that he’s one of those (like Milner - good comparison btw, or even Lucas from Liverpool) sort of players that goes unnoticed until they’re not there.

He was our Mr dependable in the championship and I’m delighted he’s signed a new deal.

(and this is all from someone who really didn’t rate him after the first few games he played for us and was screaming for Leitner to remain alongside Tettey)

[Ian 1,129]

45 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

And yet the reason we won a number of those games was down to the difference that Vrancic made, combined with the fact that he gave us 10 goals and 7 assists compared to 3 goals and 6 assists in basically the same amount of game time as McLean had.

Vrancic gives us much greater passing range and creativity, as well as higher goalscoring to boot. Neither of them excel in a more defensive role, but in terms of what they bring to the team and how that enables us to play (or not), he's a far better choice in my personal opinion, as he unlocks the movement of our attackers FAR better, which is why Pukki spent the 2nd half of last season with limited supply and having to drop deeper, rather than being able to make his runs because someone like Vrancic has the ability to find them.

Are you seriously trying to make the point that we won the league impressively, despite McLean playing? You are aware that football is a team game, and it is, at best, naive to judge a players' assists and goals in isolation given that it doesn't take a genius to realise Vrancic was not able to achieve those figures without other midfielders in the team facilitating him.

You can quote all the statistics you like if you believe it gives your opinion more insight than any other fan's, or Farke's, but ultimately, the last time we won the league Kenny played pretty much every game from January onwards. IMHO that makes a nonsense of your suggestion that you can't win the Championship with players like him, because we already have.

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Ian

[duke63 541]

I’m amazed that more posters are not Premier League managers with their in depth knowledge of the game. 😄

Our last promotion had much today with players stepping up to the mark when asked. That includes Vrancic and McLean. . 

[South Sider 114]

1 hour ago, Terminally Yellow said:

By far a better player than Mario Vrancic, but because Mario can take a free kick, you idiots all lap him up. 

Aaaaaaaand cue Lakey.

[Midlands Yellow 3,939]

Just now, South Sider said:

Aaaaaaaand cue Lakey.

Evening Morty. 

[Indy_Bones 441]

3 minutes ago, duke63 said:

I’m amazed that more posters are not Premier League managers with their in depth knowledge of the game. 😄

It's a discussion board, so unless you're Glenn Roeder in disguise, I don't see the relevance in that statement at all.

[South Sider 114]

10 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Evening Morty. 

Haven't you heard Midlands?

I was only Morty briefly. I've since been Mr. Chops, Flying Dutchman, Terminally Yellow, Hogesar, Waveney and another 7 or so other people I happen to have used the same words/punctuation/common phrases as at some point.

I'm not sure which poster we landed on, but I can't possibly be just a long time reader, only recent poster after finding themselves with a lot more additional time after lockdown, unrelated to actual posters past or present.

Convinced I'm simply anyone who has ever had a different opinion to TVB. So everyone.

I can be whoever you want me to be 🥰

Edited September 2, 2020 by South Sider

[South Sider 114]

4 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Good - certainly a very decent Chsmps player and unfairly maligned when others were far more culpable in the season just gone.

Absolutely right. The views here will range from one extreme to the other as he is the new Russell Martin for a reason I can't fathom.

But he's solid at this level and at least a good backup, if not more, at the level above.

I think we could do a lot worse than Kenny.

[Jersey Canary 143]

3 hours ago, smooth said:

Have to say indy think this sums up my view

 

3 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

My only real issue with McLean is that he's basically bang average at pretty much everything, a classic case of "Jack of all trades, master of none".

He doesn't do the defensive side of the game as well as Tettey or Trybull, he doesn't have the passing range of a Vrancic or Leitner, he doesn't have the quick feet and technique of a Cantwell or Buendia, and he's certainly no winger either, but at he same time he doesn't have some of the tradeoffs that the others have, however that still leaves me wondering exactly where you play him or who you leave out in order to accomodate the flexibility (if not great ability in specific areas).

We've seen he's not up to the PL, which can be said about a number of our players so far, and whilst he's decent at this level, for me I'd rather we had players doing specific roles and maximising their ability instead of someone he's simply decent at most things.

I can't fault his commitment or effort, but you could say the same about Andy Hughes and I don't think anyone was scrambling to select him because of this when other areas of his game simply weren't great.

For me he's simply a solid squad player, and sometimes you need a few of them to keep things ticking over if your best players are missing, but he shouldn't be one of the first names on the teamsheet, and don't understand a 3 year deal, especially if we do go straight back up, other than to get a better price in a year or so's time.

I'm not trying to bash the guy either, it's just I'd rather play people like Vrancic who have some great aspects to their game that we've been lacking at times even if they come with their own weaknesses that we need to work with.

I agree.  A squad player at best. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

11 minutes ago, South Sider said:

Haven't you heard Midlands?

I was only Morty briefly. I've since been Mr. Chops, Flying Dutchman, Terminally Yellow, Hogesar, Waveney and another 7 or so other people I happen to have used the same words/punctuation/common phrases as at some point.

I'm not sure which poster we landed on, but I can't possibly be just a long time reader, only recent poster after finding themselves with a lot more additional time after lockdown, unrelated to actual posters past or present.

Convinced I'm simply anyone who has ever had a different opinion to TVB. So everyone.

I can be whoever you want me to be 🥰

Hi South Sider 👋

Nice night to talk to ourselves, isn't it?

[Nuff Said 5,089]

27 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

It's a discussion board, so unless you're Glenn Roeder in disguise, I don't see the relevance in that statement at all.

However you spin it Indy, you can post know-it-all lengthy essays on how some sort of Frankenstein player who is a mixture of the best aspects of Emi, Mario, Leitner and Trybull should be playing instead of Kenny, but those running the club think differently. 
 

Nuff said.

[All the Germans 1,075]

Good player, glad he has signed a new contract. He isn't my favourite player (but what do I know, mine was Leitner) but he does a consistent job and Farke likes him. I'd rather have two Kenny's in central midfield than two Vrancics who can't defend / run or two Tetteys who can't meaningfully pass forwards. 

[duke63 541]

40 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

It's a discussion board, so unless you're Glenn Roeder in disguise, I don't see the relevance in that statement at all.

I’m more your Peter Grant really. 
 

still ****e manager but at least my players didn’t hate me. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I'm pleased about this. He's a player who noticeably lifts morale on the pitch and in the stands. I thought he was quite good too. But I'm not a coach🙃

 

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, South Sider said:

Haven't you heard Midlands?

I was only Morty briefly. I've since been Mr. Chops, Flying Dutchman, Terminally Yellow, Hogesar, Waveney and another 7 or so other people I happen to have used the same words/punctuation/common phrases as at some point.

I'm not sure which poster we landed on, but I can't possibly be just a long time reader, only recent poster after finding themselves with a lot more additional time after lockdown, unrelated to actual posters past or present.

Convinced I'm simply anyone who has ever had a different opinion to TVB. So everyone.

I can be whoever you want me to be 🥰

Oh I didnt know you were me!

We agree on a few bits so I guess it's a logical conclusion.

Anyway, I think the problem is people look at players as an individual in these circumstances and not as a team member.

What I mean by that is Vrancic is a much more flashy player than Mclean because of his technical ability and finesse.

Fans like to see exciting players play for their team.

But not every player can be that. Vrancic has individual attributes that im a big fan of, those who have been around enough will remember me defending him when people said he was rubbish when he first signed for us.

However for the overall benefit of the team I think the fact Mclean is one midfielder who can do a bit of everything adds massive balance to what is otherwise a very unbalanced midfield.

He can score at this level and assist at this level. Not as good as Vrancic did last time but he still contributed significantly. On top of that he's better defensively than Vrancic, has a better engine and covers more ground. There will be games where Vrancic will be required but for balance I expect Mclean to play most weeks.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 hours ago, South Sider said:

I can be whoever you want me to be 🥰

It's the 21st century, we won't judge your lifestyle choices. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

I don't mind Kenny McLean, not bad enough to justify being made the scapegoat as some do, although also not good enough for the praise that Farke bestowed on him. 

He'll do well in the Championship, he's a better player when in a team with lots of possession. Far less convinced that he's got enough in his locker for a team on the back foot in the league above, but we're not in the league above and haven't kicked a ball yet - talking about our next spell in the Premier League is very premature.

He looks like Lampard next to Rupp (who will probably succeed him as the fans scapegoat of choice).

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

5 hours ago, cornish sam said:

Every good team needs a milner...

Milner is a hard **** who goes in for every 50/50 and really versatile, its a poor comparison.

Gary O'Neil was the poor mans James Milner. 

Edited September 3, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Forgive me, thinking about it, one trick pony is harsh. He can pass. He can take a decent free kick. Two tricks. 

Well he can take a decent corner as well.

But I mean, being one of only two players that are consistently capable of splitting a defense to create a chance for Pukki is a pretty valuable trick to possess. 

We'd definitely miss him if we lost Buendia, for that reason.

Agree with your defence of McLean, certainly doesn't deserve to be a scapegoat, but Vrancic is possibly our most intelligent player! 

His weakness is that he is very one paced, that's why he struggled in the Premier League. But we're not in the Premier League and he can make a real impact in this league again.

I'm personally delighted that Vrancic wasn't in the group that were bombed out. 

10 goals and 7 assists in our promotion season! 

Why don't you look at what happened to results when he came into the team that season. To save you the hassle, here you go...

Don't bother pointing out that he was a sub in all those green games, as I'll point out the two match winning goals!

I believe he scored 5 match winning goals that season, and that's before you count the assists.... assist to rescue a point away at Brentford is one, and coming on in the 88th minute and then providing an assist in the 7th minute of injury time to set up Pukki's winner against Millwall another crucial match winning moment.

Doing him a massive disservice to play down his contribution to our promotion the last time we were in this league, class player who can change a game.

He's well worth a place in our squad even if its mostly sitting on the bench as somebody who can produce a bit of magic to rescue a game.

If he did have that turn of pace he'd never have found himself in any second tier.

Edited September 3, 2020 by TeemuVanBasten

[Duncan Edwards 2,220]

5 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Evening Morty. 

It’s not Morty. You’re welcome. 

[South Sider 114]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

Oh I didnt know you were me!

We agree on a few bits so I guess it's a logical conclusion.

Anyway, I think the problem is people look at players as an individual in these circumstances and not as a team member.

What I mean by that is Vrancic is a much more flashy player than Mclean because of his technical ability and finesse.

Fans like to see exciting players play for their team.

But not every player can be that. Vrancic has individual attributes that im a big fan of, those who have been around enough will remember me defending him when people said he was rubbish when he first signed for us.

However for the overall benefit of the team I think the fact Mclean is one midfielder who can do a bit of everything adds massive balance to what is otherwise a very unbalanced midfield.

He can score at this level and assist at this level. Not as good as Vrancic did last time but he still contributed significantly. On top of that he's better defensively than Vrancic, has a better engine and covers more ground. There will be games where Vrancic will be required but for balance I expect Mclean to play most weeks.

Agree with this.

I'm a big fan of Mario but his attributes are entirely different, Kenny brings a different set of attributes that doesn't necessarily mean Mario doesn't. Just different. 

Kenny is solid at our current level and he'll play a lot, probably rightly so. I also hope to see Mario more this season too.

[Indy_Bones 441]

I don't understand how people keep praising him as being better defensively than Vrancic, when one of our main complaints was that apart from Tettey, none of our midfield were helping our defence.

We've consistently been leaky at the back, some of which can fairly be attributed to injury issues last season, but we were pretty porous in the Champs promotion season as well but balanced this by being much better attacking wise and thus outscored people even if we conceded a goal or two.

Buendia is our most creative player, but if he's having an off day, there's literally almost nothing coming from the centre of the park to help this issue out. Tettey is a ball winning defensive midfielder, Trybull was similar but with slightly more passing range in exchange for not being quite as good defensively. McLean isn't as good defensively as either, nor does he provide the creativity that the likes of Vrancic can, he's just decent in most areas.

We struggled for goals last season, one of the primary reasons being a dip in form from Pukki who at the same time was being given relatively poor supply and snatching at the limited chances he was getting. How do you resolve a supply issue? Bring in someone with greater passing options, vision and creativity to give the forwards more to work with. The counter argument is that Vrancic makes us weaker defensively and isn't the quickest, yet if we're conceding goals consistently regardless of whether or not it's McLean or Vrancic being picked, surely it makes more sense to play the guy who can actually produce something out of nothing?

There will be games where the extra workrate and industry of McLean will be needed, but there will also be plenty of games where the craft and vision of Vrancic is far more important, yet we all know it's likely to be McLean getting the nod 9 times out of 10 instead of Vrancic, and this has a clear knock on effect to our front players.

As I said much earlier in the thread, I'm not trying to bash McLean, he clearly has a place as a squad player, and will be better at this level than in the PL, but he shouldn't be one of the first names on the teamsheet and his selection shouldn't come at the cost of stifling our attack in exchange for a little bit more flexibility and robustness in the middle.

McLean would never have played the ball to Pukki that Vrancic did against Spurs, and had it not been for a BS decision by VAR, we'd likely have won that game - through the combination of Pukki and Vrancic, and not because McLean was buzzing round in midfield.