Where is the CB?

[Bonzo 198]

My guess is that unless Godfrey is sold then we won't be signing a CB.

The Gibson deal has dragged on for so long that it must be dead. If he were coming it would be done and he'd have been on the Pre-Season tour.

As it stands we have 4 very good Championship CBs plus Tetty, Sorenson, Quintilla and Famewo. 

 

[Tootingyellow 1]

41 minutes ago, Bonzo said:

My guess is that unless Godfrey is sold then we won't be signing a CB.

The Gibson deal has dragged on for so long that it must be dead. If he were coming it would be done and he'd have been on the Pre-Season tour.

As it stands we have 4 very good Championship CBs plus Tetty, Sorenson, Quintilla and Famewo. 

 

I don't agree. We shipped plenty of goals the last time we were in the Championship. I think Gibson would have been (may still be) a excellent signing. We are very poor at basic defending, we look as though we could concede from every cross/corner etc, players are too easily pulled out of position and others don't drop in (if Godfrey is a CB, he certainly hasn't learned his craft yet) andwe often overplay from the back. Whoever is our defensive coach, he needs replacing/shooting.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

I'm not buying the argument that we don't need a CB. We had a poor defensive record last time we were in the Champs with the same set of 4 CBs and now 3 of them have injury concerns on top. The amounts we're talking, <£5m, is absolute peanuts in the grand scheme of what it could cost us if we miss out on promotion by continuously conceding stupid goals from set pieces.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

2 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I'm not buying the argument that we don't need a CB. We had a poor defensive record last time we were in the Champs with the same set of 4 CBs and now 3 of them have injury concerns on top. The amounts we're talking, <£5m, is absolute peanuts in the grand scheme of what it could cost us if we miss out on promotion by continuously conceding stupid goals from set pieces.

How many centre backs better than Godfrey and Zimmermann do you think Norwich could sign for less than £5m?

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

20 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

How many centre backs better than Godfrey and Zimmermann do you think Norwich could sign for less than £5m?

We signed Hanley for £3.5m didn't we? I don't want us to go out and spank £20-30m or anything stupid, just someone robust and experienced in the Champs who can challenge for a first-team place and gives us another actual CB rather than a makeshift one. We're not going to get promoted with Tettey etc pretending at CB, it will cost us goals and points and shouldn't be considered as a Plan B or C.

[hogesar 9,618]

39 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

How many centre backs better than Godfrey and Zimmermann do you think Norwich could sign for less than £5m?

I think this is why my personal view is we are looking at Ben Gibson as he would be a genuine starter for us, but not just 'generally looking for a CB' because finding someone within our budget who's happy to 'challenge' for a starting position and is as good or better than Godfrey, Zimmerman or Hanley is unlikely.

Its also incredibly unlikely we would have the same injury crisis as last season. How many other championship clubs have more than 4 out and out CBs? Genuine question as I'm not sure but I doubt there is many.

[Rivvo 257]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think our appalling 10 game run of defeats would have turned a lot of clubs off of a lot of our players, look at Liverpool being willing to pay £10m for Jamal Lewis but going elsewhere to spend £14m on a Greek when we asked for more.

Now, now all the reports from people ‘in the know’ said That they had been tracking the Greek guy for ages but couldn’t agree a fee so they used the bid for Lewis as leverage in the Greek deal.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 minutes ago, Rivvo said:

Now, now all the reports from people ‘in the know’ said That they had been tracking the Greek guy for ages but couldn’t agree a fee so they used the bid for Lewis as leverage in the Greek deal.

Possibly, it does happen. 

Works the other way too doesn't it, players agents let the press know about interest from clubs to get better deals from other clubs.

We could be using Ben Gibson, or he could be using us. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

36 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

We signed Hanley for £3.5m didn't we? I don't want us to go out and spank £20-30m or anything stupid, just someone robust and experienced in the Champs who can challenge for a first-team place and gives us another actual CB rather than a makeshift one. We're not going to get promoted with Tettey etc pretending at CB, it will cost us goals and points and shouldn't be considered as a Plan B or C.

I'd say Hanley isn't a better defender than Godfrey and Zimmerman. 

While Norwich do have the same players as 18/19 - Lewis, Godfrey and Aarons all have an extra year of experience under their belts and are better players than they were that season. Zimmermann has improved significantly since then as well. I would like to see another centre back come in, but I'm more than comfortable for the club to wait until the end of the window to make that deal. There is no need to rush into it at the moment. 

[ZLF 271]

IF they could stay fit I wouldnt have any issue in going into a champs season with the current 4 CBs.  Give them a mainly injury free period and the chance to build a stable understanding beyond a dozen games (do i recall right the most often used combination last season was amadou & Godfrey with 6 or 9 games?) with better midfield screening (skipp and sorenson looks promising) then we will probably be quite secure.   Fingers crossed for an improvement in the sheer volume of muscle injuries would be a start. 

Unfortunately 3 have recurrent injury issues, 2 are at an age where they wont be improving and maybe only 1 is really going to be good enough should we get promoted back to the prem.   

Add in attracting a good player to challenge 4 experienced options ii becomes a challenging conundrum.

That all changes if Godfrey is sold.

Right now I would start with a partnership that could improve over time and go Godfrey Zimmermann.

 

 

 

 

 

[ncfcstar 287]

46 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I'd say Hanley isn't a better defender than Godfrey and Zimmerman. 

While Norwich do have the same players as 18/19 - Lewis, Godfrey and Aarons all have an extra year of experience under their belts and are better players than they were that season. Zimmermann has improved significantly since then as well. I would like to see another centre back come in, but I'm more than comfortable for the club to wait until the end of the window to make that deal. There is no need to rush into it at the moment. 

I agree to an extent, but I'd add the caveat that we could find ourselves in a similar position as last season fairly quickly.  Both Klose and Zimmermann have pulled up in pre-season games, and whilst they are clearly OK at the moment, last season shows we're only 90 minutes away from struggling at CB again.

Clearly the club are looking to bring someone in, so I have no concerns on that front, but I'm not sure I'd want them to wait to October -we've potentially got 8 games until the window closes for something to go wrong.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

Just now, ncfcstar said:

I agree to an extent, but I'd add the caveat that we could find ourselves in a similar position as last season fairly quickly.  Both Klose and Zimmermann have pulled up in pre-season games, and whilst they are clearly OK at the moment, last season shows we're only 90 minutes away from struggling at CB again.

Clearly the club are looking to bring someone in, so I have no concerns on that front, but I'm not sure I'd want them to wait to October -we've potentially got 8 games until the window closes for something to go wrong.

If an injury happens then you accelerate the process.

Having 6 centre backs at the club (when you add in Famewo) is a lot and not a decision that should be rushed into resulting in heightening the risk that a player who won't improve the starting XI is signed.

Unfortunately Famewo picked up a knock in pre-season, otherwise he'd have probably played in a few of the friendlies and I think people would be stressing about this less seeing a 5th centre back. But without him getting onto the pitch I think he gets forgotten about a bit.

[kirku 1,332]

7 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Unfortunately Famewo picked up a knock in pre-season, otherwise he'd have probably played in a few of the friendlies and I think people would be stressing about this less seeing a 5th centre back. But without him getting onto the pitch I think he gets forgotten about a bit.

Is Famewo any good? 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

2 minutes ago, kirku said:

Is Famewo any good? 

The club seem to think he has potential enough that they want to keep him around in the first team. He's probably good enough to be 5th choice centre back. 

[sgncfc 1,223]

16 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

If an injury happens then you accelerate the process.

Having 6 centre backs at the club (when you add in Famewo) is a lot and not a decision that should be rushed into resulting in heightening the risk that a player who won't improve the starting XI is signed.

Unfortunately Famewo picked up a knock in pre-season, otherwise he'd have probably played in a few of the friendlies and I think people would be stressing about this less seeing a 5th centre back. But without him getting onto the pitch I think he gets forgotten about a bit.

Whoever we sign as a CB, I hope he doesn't have the same glass legs that Klose, Hanley, Zimmermann and Famewo appear to have. Injury prone doesn't really cover it, but it seems that 4 of our 5 have little chance of playing more than a few games without getting yet another injury. With that as a known, not signing someone would be completely stupid.

There are plenty out there - Jake Cooper, Tom Lees, Christopher Schindler, Ben Davies etc 

[Bonzo 198]

2 hours ago, Tootingyellow said:

I don't agree. We shipped plenty of goals the last time we were in the Championship. I think Gibson would have been (may still be) a excellent signing. We are very poor at basic defending, we look as though we could concede from every cross/corner etc, players are too easily pulled out of position and others don't drop in (if Godfrey is a CB, he certainly hasn't learned his craft yet) andwe often overplay from the back. Whoever is our defensive coach, he needs replacing/shooting.

I agree that Gibson would be a good signing and I'm not saying that we shouldn't look to improve our squad. Neither are we at the point where we could anticipate being the side that concedes the least number of goals in the league. There is plenty of room for improvement.

If we sign someone though it will need to be someone who could be a Premiership CB in a years time. I'd personally like to see us sign someone who is a beast in the air as most of what we have are very tidy ball players who don't win much off the deck.

That being said maybe Farke sees our shortcomings as a coaching issue rather than a personnel one. Zimbo and Godfrey have the physicality to do much more off the deck. Our defending as a unit is still a work in progress but having a settled side would also help and we've hardly had this of late. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

3 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Whoever we sign as a CB, I hope he doesn't have the same glass legs that Klose, Hanley, Zimmermann and Famewo appear to have. Injury prone doesn't really cover it, but it seems that 4 of our 5 have little chance of playing more than a few games without getting yet another injury. With that as a known, not signing someone would be completely stupid.

There are plenty out there - Jake Cooper, Tom Lees, Christopher Schindler, Ben Davies etc 

Zimmermann isn't  injury prone. 19/20 was he worst ever season for injuries. He only missed one game of 18/19 injured and just two in 17/18. It is just a shame his worst season was last season when others also had particularly bad seasons. Also it's too early to say whether Famewo is injury prone -  he played every minute available for St Mirren last season - calling him injury prone for getting a knock in pre-season is an overreaction.

None of the names you have mentioned would improve on Norwich's defenders, and most would probably cost over £5m I suspect.

 

 

[ncfcstar 287]

33 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

If an injury happens then you accelerate the process.

Having 6 centre backs at the club (when you add in Famewo) is a lot and not a decision that should be rushed into resulting in heightening the risk that a player who won't improve the starting XI is signed.

Unfortunately Famewo picked up a knock in pre-season, otherwise he'd have probably played in a few of the friendlies and I think people would be stressing about this less seeing a 5th centre back. But without him getting onto the pitch I think he gets forgotten about a bit.

I still have my reservations with that, you are right it's a lot but we've proven we can easily run through them with the players we have.  This season is going to be completely unforgiving, and whilst I'm sure we're more than likely to throw the game against Luton, potentially 8 games up until the window closes and then regular Sat/midweek rounds of games are going to stretch the squad.

Accelerating the process is fine, but we could easily have played 3 or 4 more times before the process is completed.

[FenwayFrank 2,457]

3 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

whilst I'm sure we're more than likely to throw the game against Luton

I doubt it, we should still be able to field a team good enough to get a result. Go through to the next round and fringe players/ subs get the chance to play a competitive match.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

3 minutes ago, ncfcstar said:

I still have my reservations with that, you are right it's a lot but we've proven we can easily run through them with the players we have.  This season is going to be completely unforgiving, and whilst I'm sure we're more than likely to throw the game against Luton, potentially 8 games up until the window closes and then regular Sat/midweek rounds of games are going to stretch the squad.

Accelerating the process is fine, but we could easily have played 3 or 4 more times before the process is completed.

There will always be a risk, but having a squad with 6 centre backs for two positions is just unsustainable in the long term. In additional wages and having most likely two players grumbling about a lack of gametime. Between them, Zimmermann and Godfrey missed 1 game through injury in 18/19. 

[Indy 3,286]

I’d be very happy to see Hanley shipped out and replaced with Gibson, probably similar wages. I’m with others we shipped far too many goals but not because of our defence but because of our soft arsed midfielders, not tracking, tackling or breaking up play as they should. With a Sorensen, Skipp and Tettey we have more strength there now, so should be a lot tighter.

If we don’t lose any defenders then we don’t need another CB this season, but go up and we definitely will need two more!

Edited September 1, 2020 by Indy

[Dr Greenthumb 746]

2 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Whoever we sign as a CB, I hope he doesn't have the same glass legs that Klose, Hanley, Zimmermann and Famewo appear to have. Injury prone doesn't really cover it, but it seems that 4 of our 5 have little chance of playing more than a few games without getting yet another injury. With that as a known, not signing someone would be completely stupid.

There are plenty out there - Jake Cooper, Tom Lees, Christopher Schindler, Ben Davies etc 

Tom Lees has really gone off the boil, good friend is a Wednesday fan and says he’s not like he used to be

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

6 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I'd say Hanley isn't a better defender than Godfrey and Zimmerman. 

While Norwich do have the same players as 18/19 - Lewis, Godfrey and Aarons all have an extra year of experience under their belts and are better players than they were that season. Zimmermann has improved significantly since then as well. I would like to see another centre back come in, but I'm more than comfortable for the club to wait until the end of the window to make that deal. There is no need to rush into it at the moment. 

On what do you base that statement?

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

4 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

There will always be a risk, but having a squad with 6 centre backs for two positions is just unsustainable in the long term. In additional wages and having most likely two players grumbling about a lack of gametime. Between them, Zimmermann and Godfrey missed 1 game through injury in 18/19. 

Wondering if there any youngsters in the U23s who might be deemed good enough to cover on the bench in emergencies? Famewo will be 22 in November so isn't completely green. Ciaren Jones, Louis Lomas, Andrew Omobamidele and Jonathan Tomkinson are all in the U23s... anyone know if any of them are particularly highly rated within the Academy setup?

[BigGrantsTash 70]

We’re fine until Hanley or Klose pick up their injuries like they have done every season they’ve been with us.

Then as soon as Zimbo picks up an injury we’re left with full backs and midfielders to play alongside Godfrey at centre half again.

Everyone will crow “but we have 4 cbs, how could anyone have guessed 3 would be injured at the same time”

”of course we’ve gone 10 games without a win, how can we expect to win with no cbs!?” 

[Indy 3,286]

1 minute ago, BigGrantsTash said:

We’re fine until Hanley or Klose pick up their injuries like they have done every season they’ve been with us.

Then as soon as Zimbo picks up an injury we’re left with full backs and midfielders to play alongside Godfrey at centre half again.

Everyone will crow “but we have 4 cbs, how could anyone have guessed 3 would be injured at the same time”

”of course we’ve gone 10 games without a win, how can we expect to win with no cbs!?” 

Agree, but we don’t need 6 CB at the club, if we were too change then Klose or Hanley need to go, or we’re going to be paying big wages for two CB who won’t feature much! So do we sell Hanley, buy Gibson and move on? Or hope they both stay fit for a season?

[BigGrantsTash 70]

51 minutes ago, Indy said:

Agree, but we don’t need 6 CB at the club, if we were too change then Klose or Hanley need to go, or we’re going to be paying big wages for two CB who won’t feature much! So do we sell Hanley, buy Gibson and move on? Or hope they both stay fit for a season?

We’ve only got 4 first team cbs though. The others are players who might have played there a time or two but so had Amadou...

Klose would be the one to replace imo. I would have done it last season tbh. When his contract was up. Obviously you can’t just rip up a contract so we need somebody to actually want to take him.

But he would be the one for me. Lovely bloke but injured to regularly and imo only ever been average champ level cb in our time with us.

[Indy 3,286]

3 minutes ago, BigGrantsTash said:

We’ve only got 4 first team cbs though. The others are players who might have played there a time or two but so had Amadou...

Klose would be the one to replace imo. I would have done it last season tbh. When his contract was up. Obviously you can’t just rip up a contract so we need somebody to actually want to take him.

But he would be the one for me. Lovely bloke but injured to regularly and imo only ever been average champ level cb in our time with us.

I think Famewo is in the plans, though 5 choice at present but still in the squad so reality at this time we do have 5.

[Mullet 293]

If we conceed 3 against Luton on Saturday I think this post will sound a whole lot different. We have one week left to sort our annual defensive problems, we can hope our defensive issues have resolved but I saw some worrying signs in the last friendly game.

We must defend better this season and I don't think Pukki's goals will bail us out this time.

That said we have a lot of potential in the side and If the lads can win 5-4 most weeks, should be fun

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

How many centre backs better than Godfrey and Zimmermann do you think Norwich could sign for less than £5m?

How many games this season will we be without one of Godfrey and Zimmermann? 

I think the biggest issue for me is that we've got four centre backs and three of them appear to be prone to injuries. 

I don't think it is unrealistic for us to sign a centre back who can be considered an upgrade on Klose (at this age, not prime Klose) or Hanley, and for us to proceed with five centre backs.

It could well be that we end up finding it difficult to keep them all happy, that would be a nice scenario.

It could well be that we need to use them all. 

What we absolutely cannot risk is having to play any portion of the season with a player playing out of position at centre back like we did last season. 

Surely any Norwich fan would agree after last seasons debacle?