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Felixfan

Scathing attack by Martin Samuel.

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No idea who he is, but what an absolute tool. 

Totally ignored, or ignorant, of the club, finances, history, and reality. 

As for Ipswich fans, I really could not care. They are irrelevant to Norwich now, who are so far ahead in all areas that they cant  match us in the next ten years. 

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Just had a quick look at TWTD. One idiot quoted the article and several others with a brain told him to think carefully about the current situation. Leave them to their misery. Those among them that have a brain understand the current reality. The others read the Daily Mail 

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Yes over a month ago when the article came out 

The logic is correct we as NCFC fans accept failure any other club would not be satisfied with the performance of this club. At the lockdown we had every chance of staying in TP and blew it

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3 minutes ago, Felixfan said:

Surprised there was no response from the club.

Why? Everyone knows you don't respond to click bait.

And hardly a surprise TWTD are discussing it. Ipswich fans love talking about irrelevant things from the past.

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7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

A scathing attack on our club by a Mail hack which is causing much delight on TWTD.

Well they've got very little to be deighted about themselves, so I suppose they have to clutch at something to draw something to be pleased about.  Truth is, as with a lot of comments from people away from the club, they don't find out enough about what they are talking about for it to have any worth. It's so easy to be negative about the club, yet it is plain for everyone to see - if they want to see it that is - that we are working through a financial restructuring which started three years ago. 

Really it boils down to cheap snidy journalism - put out a lazy article putting one side of the story only and ignoring the bigger picture so pandering to those gullible enough to think that is all there is to it.  

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I haven’t read it all, but surely if by not overspending and setting ourselves up for keeping all our top players is a far better way to be relegated than Watford or Bournemouth who are having to sell their best players and more or less resetting for the championship!

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Not sure if ITFC will face the dilemma of what to do with their finances as a premier league club again in my lifetime....maybe they should concentrate on getting out of the pub league (that cant afford to fulfill its fixtures...or where they cant pay their entire squad any more than accrington or northampton can pay theirs) first before being 'delighted' at such a lazy article

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25 minutes ago, Indy said:

I haven’t read it all, but surely if by not overspending and setting ourselves up for keeping all our top players is a far better way to be relegated than Watford or Bournemouth who are having to sell their best players and more or less resetting for the championship!

That's not the argument being made though.

His argument is that if we had spent more money, we may not have gone down thus making your above point irrelevant.

I still agree that he's talking out his backside though, and indeed Villa's fortunate survival wasn't down to the 147 million they spent (Mainly on players who simply weren't that good e.g. Wesley) but they were instead carried by Grealish, Hourihane and McGinn (players they already had on their books).

I do feel that we simply weren't good enough in the middle, something that both Amadou and Duda were meant to deal with, but sadly didn't work out, but I also feel that had we not had the early season injury crisis at the back, things could easily have been different.

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2 hours ago, Felixfan said:

 A scathing attack on our club by a Mail hack which is causing much delight on TWTD.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8518993/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Norwich-rewarded-utter-failure-imagination.html

 

It is the case (almost sadly) that itfc are an utter irrelevance to us, and have been for many years now.

That they themselves furloughed staff whilst being owned by a much richer individual, and in addition have the dubious history of ripping off local businesses and health care providers, find our situation an opportunity to take the p155, speaks volumes.

life at poorman road must be dull as dishwater.

However, I wouldn't know how depressing it must be for them. I have little interest in them as they are sooooo far out of sight and could not even name a single player they have.

Sad club, sad situation.

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If you have ever seen Martin Samuel he is a cross between Demis Roussos and Jabba the Hut.

Now I know appearances aren't everything and I have no room to shout but he is one of those who wheezes as he speaks and looks like he would not be able to kick a ball.

So to call us useless and make his excuses while praising clubs who lose money hand over fist while not winning a thing is priceless. He thinks what ManC have done to football is perfectly acceptable and its jealousy from the rest.

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8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

If you have ever seen Martin Samuel he is a cross between Demis Roussos and Jabba the Hut.

Now I know appearances aren't everything and I have no room to shout but he is one of those who wheezes as he speaks and looks like he would not be able to kick a ball.

So to call us useless and make his excuses while praising clubs who lose money hand over fist while not winning a thing is priceless. He thinks what ManC have done to football is perfectly acceptable and its jealousy from the rest.

Empty vessels KG....empty vessels.

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1 hour ago, daly said:

Yes over a month ago when the article came out 

The logic is correct we as NCFC fans accept failure any other club would not be satisfied with the performance of this club. At the lockdown we had every chance of staying in TP and blew it

With no CBs??

Yeah right.

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Martin Samuel looks like he ate £140 million pounds worth of fried food. Was Delias too healthy for him or something?

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A town with no electricity means articles arrive by stagecoach over a month later.... either that or town cryer / only person that can read has his work cut out with Covid or that there hooping cough as the locals refer to it...

Edited by Kenny Foggo
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56 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

That's not the argument being made though.

His argument is that if we had spent more money, we may not have gone down thus making your above point irrelevant.

I still agree that he's talking out his backside though, and indeed Villa's fortunate survival wasn't down to the 147 million they spent (Mainly on players who simply weren't that good e.g. Wesley) but they were instead carried by Grealish, Hourihane and McGinn (players they already had on their books).

I do feel that we simply weren't good enough in the middle, something that both Amadou and Duda were meant to deal with, but sadly didn't work out, but I also feel that had we not had the early season injury crisis at the back, things could easily have been different.

No I got that, but if we had spent millions we’d now be trying to offload players to cover costs.

We did it the best way, three teams will be relegated next year, all promoted teams will no doubt be fighting relegation.

Yes I’m happy to be where we are, still have most our squad, lots of new signings and a youth set up which is by far the best in this league.

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I would say judging by that article, he just about squirmed through the hole to get in the bottom of the barrel of journalism.

The Daily Heil, is not a publication, I refrain from calling it a newspaper, that is well known to be utterly detestable. It supported the Nazis in the 1930s and the far right in this country that supported fascism. It has continued to support the hard right since then having stayed within the ownership of the same family I believe.

Anyway, moving on from that, lets disect, as there is nothing like spilling your enemies guts on the field of battle... erm, it's the Boudica way ok?

"Norwich are being rewarded for an utter failure of imagination" - disagree, but we'll get to that in more detail. Just putting it here as a reminder.

"Michail Antonio managed it at Carrow Road and he isn't even a recognised striker." So, I checked out wikipedia, soccerbase and transfermakt and guess what? All of them either listed him as a forward only, or included forward amongst a number of positions. The icing on the cake would be this though:
image.png.b9c9ce49211aa3a6588f135249f03045.png
I mean, if you are going to suggest that a player isn't recognised as a forward/striker, you may want to at least quickly check their website...

"And that's what the parachute payment is: £40m a club can spend because, whatever happens, they're going to get it back. It's designed to create competition. And Norwich did not spend it. They were not competitive." He sort of contradicts himself here as earlier he said: "Now they will be rewarded again, with a £40m parachute payment to guard against the drop to Championship revenue."
The most glaring and obvious issue with this is that the £40million is not up front, it is in instalments over three years. So, in his argument, to get the £40million now, you need to have an owner who invests it now and draws it back later, ideally at no extra cost (interest etc) or you have to get it from investors or banks. At which point you are paying interest etc. So in fact, £40million isn't a "free bet" as he states elsewhere in the article.


At this point it really is reading much like a very deliberately hot headed talksport radio host who is desperately trying to wind up anyone with an already precarious blood pressure level to call in and drive up listener numbers. Only in this case it's likely to be hits on their website which drives up their advertising revenues and makes his pieces look popular, or perhaps even gets him commission for advertising opportunities? To be honest, it's entirely what it looks to be and sadly, all of us having clicked on it are falling for it.

"So for Norwich to end up in substantial profit, and relegated, where is the triumph in that? They are better placed for life in the Championship? Says who? Parachute payments offer no guarantees as far as the football goes." This is where it gets more interesting. You can't argue that the money should have been gambled years ahead of it being in hand, and then say that there is no guarantee it will work if spent. I do miss out a bit where he further argues that money should be gambled... but it was something argued elsewhere many times.

It then gets even better: "Last season's relegated clubs are currently fourth, sixth and 20th in the second tier. Those who went down the year before are second, seventh and 17th." Essentially the premise of his article is that focusing on being a well run club, sticking to principles and identity is "unimaginative", which is to say, boring.


However, the clubs he mentions are Fulham, Cardiff and Huddersfield from last season - the first two finishing in the top six and Fulham being promoted. Now, he may well not have the benefit of hindsight considering the time of the article, but Fulham most definitely have made use of those parachute payments to keep their side together and add to it. Cardiff also did relatively well.

The other three teams are West Brom (2nd), Swansea (6th) and Stoke (15th). Again, no benefit of hindsight there but considering parachute payments are over three years he's also missed the opportunity to have a look at another three. And I want to for good reason.

Hull, Middlesbrough and Sunderland. Only one of those teams is in the Championship. The other two have been horribly miss-managed, putting themselves into situations they could not recover from, having to sell star assets with little reinvestment into the playing squad, poor leadership all of which contributing to abject failure.

All of which means we should return to that starting piece - "Norwich are being rewarded for an utter failure of imagination". The reason I disagree? Prior to last season, the previous two seasons we had in the premier league ended in relegation. In both of those seasons we spent heavily on purchasing a few players and even more on their contracts. One thing this club is often accused of is not spending money.

Under Hughton we spent £20+million. Yes, it was our third consecutive season in the premier league so we had the money to spend. But the majority of that money went on Wolfswinkel and Hooper who added to Elmander replaced Holt, Morison and Martin. In other-words we splashed the cash and it didn't work. And it left us in a bit of a state. None of those players were any use to Norwich on relegation, in fact, even Bassong and Turner would lose the quality they had in their first season under Hughton.

Then one of the most expensive wage bills we have seen under Alex Neil. And the debacle of signing the likes of Pinto, Klose and Naismith on contracts without relegation clauses which threw us into a deep hole even the parachute payments struggled to keep us out of.

Unimaginative for me, is when someone fails to do anything new. What we have at the moment is an identity the club has concreted in, this is the way we are going to do things and no matter what, we are sticking to the principles of making our academy worth the investment in it, seeking out up and coming players and using them to not only get us to where we want to be, but to help fund our club in terms of being able to make money from building them into better players. Much like under Lambert, that requires a bit of a spread bet, rather than chucking the money all into one player whilst also understanding that in the modern game there is no place for sentiment, some of these players got us promoted but perhaps they have had their moment and going forward they are not for us.

 

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