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Yorkshire  Canary

Hugill Bid Rejected

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I really hope Idah is not loaned out and is in the first team plans. His hat trick against Preston clearly showed he is up to the level required. His penalty against Spurs was composed and clinical and he has often done ok this last season when brought on as a sub in the PL.  Still only 19, but I would have thought he is ready to make the breakthrough this coming season.

The only reason for sending him on loan would be to give him game time, but would far rather he had that at Norwich, either alongside Pukki or as first choice after Pukki.

It was Preston reserves but I hope you are right. I think a full season out in a decent league one side might be better for him especially if we sign Hugill who in my opinion is a great choice...

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16 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It was Preston reserves but I hope you are right. I think a full season out in a decent league one side might be better for him especially if we sign Hugill who in my opinion is a great choice...

If we were still PL i would agree with you. Assuming Drmic flys the nest even with Hugill , Pukki and idah that is only 3 strikers for 46 league games, there will be plenty of opportunity for all 3 to get some game time with injuries, suspensions and tactical changes, not to mention cup games. Idah may not be the finished article by any means but he will get game time and  experience with us now. With hindsight i think we could have played Madison a season earlier than we did

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Have seen him play but I can't remember much about him. However I think a player like that would be a great addition. We need an aerial presence in both boxes and I remember Iwan being our best defender of set plays. These players cost money though because they take longer to make. (If that makes sense). He's 28 and has 200 odd games under his belt scoring at a decent level too. He should be near his peak.

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He’s goal record is actually pretty decent when looking at games started. It seems he’s spent a large part of his career being an impact sub. Obviously that raises questions as to why he’s not started more games but conversely, why did West Hsm pay £8m for him, if he isn’t any good? 

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Idah deserves a shot this season regardless of someone else being brought in. Give the lad a chance to show us what he can do if Pukki is still struggling.

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57 minutes ago, Indy_Bones said:

There's all this talk about Pukki being unlikely to hit 29+ goals again (I agree it's a tough ask for ANY striker tbf), and that Hugill had a decent season last year, but let's not forget that the season before he managed a mere 6 goals in the league and the season before that he got 8 in the league.

If I'd proposed some random 28 year old striker from Europe who'd managed those limited returns at a price of between 5-8 million (fee + wages) I'd be getting laughed off the forum, so why is it different with Hugill???

....

For starters, 1) he’s home-grown, which is particularly important for us and 2) he knows the Championship, so doesn’t need a season to get up to speed, as happened with, to name two, Vrancic and Stieperman.

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1 hour ago, Indy_Bones said:

There's all this talk about Pukki being unlikely to hit 29+ goals again (I agree it's a tough ask for ANY striker tbf), and that Hugill had a decent season last year, but let's not forget that the season before he managed a mere 6 goals in the league and the season before that he got 8 in the league.

If I'd proposed some random 28 year old striker from Europe who'd managed those limited returns at a price of between 5-8 million (fee + wages) I'd be getting laughed off the forum, so why is it different with Hugill???

I've said before he's a poor version of Grant Holt, a player we signed for 400k, who scored 24 goals in League 1, 21 in the Champs, 15 in his first season in the Prem, and then another 8 in that god awful Hughton season, now compare that to Hugill and tell me that even taking into account the increase in money in the game, that Hugill is anywhere even close to value or ability in comparison to Holt, or for that matter Pukki who cost us NOTHING.

Players develop. If you judge Pukki and Holt what they did before the age of 28, their records would be very unspectacular for this level.

But, coincidentally, we signed them both at that age and they promptly went on to have a fantastic couple of years with us, far beyond what they'd ever showed before.

Holt, when we signed him at 28, had never consistently performed above League Two level. His third tier record when we signed him was 23 goals in 113 games. 

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1 hour ago, birchfest said:

I think people are mixing up the idea of 'plan b' and 'not as good'. If everything lines up and Pukki has a blinder again, we get our 25+ goals that we need from an individual to almost single handedly see us in the top two. But its horses for courses and there will be some teams and also in-game moments where Pukki wouldn't actually be the best player to lead the line.

5 million for probably somewhere between 8-10 goals would be a poor return if he was to be our starter every week, but when you look at those 8-10 goals in the context of what Pukki an others will hopefully bring to the table it could be huge. It would be 8 goals spread potentially over 8 games where its 0-0 with 10 minutes to go. Could result in a big points increase come the end of the season, which if resulting in promotion would look like pennies. 

 

I think this gets done, and soon. We obviously view him as the missing link and its just the natural back and forth, theres no talk of us walking away like the Mann stuff.

Yes and people really underrate how useful it is to have an experienced, physical player to come on when holding a one goal lead etc. Just buying a few freekicks/throw ins and hassling defenders into panic clearances can be vital towards the end of games.

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Posted (edited)

The stats for Hugill in the last 4 seasons are 161 games and 45 goals, I think.  He’s not ‘prolific’ but those stats are far from poor, and many target-man strikers operate in different roles and create as many as they score/provide the sort of outlet we are otherwise lacking. If he’s the guy SW/DF think we need, he’d do for me, I can’t quite understand the stance of some who automatically seem to have to take the ‘anti’ view of anyone we’re linked with.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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As I said earlier in the thread, I don't feel it's the fans jobs to come up with alternatives, however, after thinking about my earlier post, I decided, what the hell, why not throw a few options out there that I feel would not only be better options, but cost significantly less and all of whom I feel are technically stonger than Hugill whilst maintaining physicality and options aerially.

Andrea La Mantia - Empoli
Isaac Kiese Thelin - Malmo
Alex Alegria - Mallorca
Felix Platte - Darmstadt

And if you want someone who knows how to play over here

Ryan Bowman - Exeter

Feel free to start laughing chaps... 😜

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9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

The stats for Hugill in the last 4 seasons are 161 games and 45 goals, I think.  He’s not ‘prolific’ but those stats are far from poor, and many target-man strikers operate in different roles and create as many as they score/provide the sort of outlet we are otherwise lacking. If he’s the guy SW/DF think we need, he’d do for me, I can’t quite understand the stance of some who automatically seem to have to take the ‘anti’ view of anyone we’re linked with.

Given he's played for quite poor championship sides I'd say those stats were impressive. As has been pointed out, Holt's stats at 28 were poor and he hugely benefited being in a side on a roll, attacking and creating loads.

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I can't see Idah going on loan. I think he's number 2. In such a truncated season as this one, he's bound to get a good number of matches and cup-ties in provided he stays fit. Also, those looking at pure goalscoring records for strikers may be running the risk of missing their impact on the team in terms of holding balls up, taking pressure off his team's defenders and pushing the other side back, assists or second assists and general nuisance value. Kevin Davies was a grand shout for a striker who didn't get too many goals but made sure defenders had a hard game, and Emile Heskey pretty much built his England career on the back of it.

We need a strong **** up top as a plan B to ease the pressure on our defence and to enable us to go long on occasion. Chuck in a speedster on a wing and there's a counter-attack option and again, no need to stay short every time in the passing. Makes us less predictable during games and ultimately harder to attack.

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1 hour ago, Indy_Bones said:

As I said earlier in the thread, I don't feel it's the fans jobs to come up with alternatives, however, after thinking about my earlier post, I decided, what the hell, why not throw a few options out there that I feel would not only be better options, but cost significantly less and all of whom I feel are technically stonger than Hugill whilst maintaining physicality and options aerially.

Andrea La Mantia - Empoli
Isaac Kiese Thelin - Malmo
Alex Alegria - Mallorca
Felix Platte - Darmstadt

And if you want someone who knows how to play over here

Ryan Bowman - Exeter

Feel free to start laughing chaps... 😜

I spent a year and a half watching La Mantia at Lecce; his 17 goals propelled them to promotion to the Serie A in 2019. Proper target man, excellent in the air, puts in a shift and didn't disgrace himself in his limited Serie A appearances during the first half of this season- the Lecce fans were very disappointed to see him leave in January. Hasn't really settled at Empoli so wouldn't cost much, but he's never played outside of Italy and isn't the quickest so I'm not sure whether he'd be a good option here. On a personal level, I'd enjoy it though. 

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5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I spent a year and a half watching La Mantia at Lecce; his 17 goals propelled them to promotion to the Serie A in 2019. Proper target man, excellent in the air, puts in a shift and didn't disgrace himself in his limited Serie A appearances during the first half of this season- the Lecce fans were very disappointed to see him leave in January. Hasn't really settled at Empoli so wouldn't cost much, but he's never played outside of Italy and isn't the quickest so I'm not sure whether he'd be a good option here. On a personal level, I'd enjoy it though. 

Glad at least someone knows who I'm on about then!

I agree he's not the quickest, but as you say, he's a great target man, deceptively good with his feet, excellent in the air and really does work hard - all the things Hugill is meant to offer, but for me La Mantia is a MUCH better player overall.

Would he adjust to the champs quickly and easily? I'm not sure, but he'd certainly be far cheaper in both fee and I imagine wages and at a similar age to Hugill.

He's probably the most finished article of the suggestions I made, and also why he was at the top of the list, but in truth I'd take any of those suggestions over Hugill, including Bowman who's only ever played in the lower leagues (apart from a few years at Motherwell).

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7 assists in 176 games?!?

With that appalling output I’d want more than a goal every four and a bit games from Hugill.

35k a week?.....it’s bloody scandalous how much an average footballer earns these days.

Can’t we do better than this?

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9 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

£5m for a guy that scored 13 goals last season in our league is not expensive at all. They have clearly identified the type of striker they need because to buy him and then not play him to his strengths would mean our management team are clueless, which I do not believe to be the case. Eze who everyone rates scored 14 of which 4 were from the penalty spot. 

Would be a great addition.

Good news is, we have signed him.

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16 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Good news is, we have signed him.

Is it good news? 

It tells me that they're not going to sign any more strikers, you know like one who actually scores goals. 

We've already got three lads who are struggling, now make that four.

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1 minute ago, Number9 said:

Is it good news? 

It tells me that they're not going to sign any more strikers, you know like one who actually scores goals. 

We've already got three lads who are struggling, now make that four.

Oh my, I don't actually know where to start.

If we are only going to take last season in isolation (which is stupid, but its what youre saying, despite the fact we are now in a lower division), then Hugill scored 15 goals for a bang average QPR side so he's hardly struggling.

If we are going to be sensible and not take one season in isolation then Pukki has scored something like 40 goals in his first two seasons with us. 30 coming in the division we now find ourselves in.

I know you're running this theme and are determined to keep it up but you're simply not making sense and ignoring a lot of facts.

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Glad we've got this one done, exactly the type of striker we needed and we aren't breaking the bank for him. As for Idah, I'd keep hold of him this season given how packed the schedule will be. With Sinani able to operate through the middle, we have 4 credible and different options now so I think the balance is right. If we get to October and Idah is getting nowhere then maybe loan him out. I feel like we will need his pace off the bench in certain games though.

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Posted (edited)

Having just seen the highlights reel - can we send him back? Not the kind of striker we need at all. Every goal was just lucky.

 

Edited by Surfer
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4 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Having just seen the highlights reel - can we send him back? Not the kind of striker we need at all. Every goal was just lucky.

 

Yep. Someone who just doesn't know the Championship. What are we doing FFS?

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19 hours ago, Number9 said:

 

Hardly prolific for the Championship, you would expect a half decent midfielder to approach double figures. 

You might look at the previous seasons tally too perhaps. 

It's the amount of playing time he'll (likely) get here that will stand in his way the most. A bit like Jordan Rhodes. Only bagged 6 goals for us but was loved by the fans and did a good job when needed. I don't think we've paid that money for Hugill to just let him rot on the bench tho. He'll likely get on ahead of Idah. I suppose it'll all depend on how they're looking in traynun Nayull... 

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8 hours ago, hogesar said:

Oh my, I don't actually know where to start.

If we are only going to take last season in isolation (which is stupid, but its what youre saying, despite the fact we are now in a lower division), then Hugill scored 15 goals for a bang average QPR side so he's hardly struggling.

If we are going to be sensible and not take one season in isolation then Pukki has scored something like 40 goals in his first two seasons with us. 30 coming in the division we now find ourselves in.

I know you're running this theme and are determined to keep it up but you're simply not making sense and ignoring a lot of facts.

I'll be very happy if Hugill settles in quickly and scores lots of goals. 

His career so far though, tells a tale of scoring one goal every 4.2 games with virtually no assists. 

At 28 years of age, is he going to suddenly improve?

Even in the highlights reel, majority of his goals were as a result of crosses, is Farke really going to change his tactics to instruct the wide players to get crosses in rather than drifting inside or passing back towards their own goal?

I'll be happy if he's a success, but I'm not going overboard with 'we're going to win the league' until we see how Farke asks them to play. 

 

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14 hours ago, birchfest said:

I think people are mixing up the idea of 'plan b' and 'not as good'. If everything lines up and Pukki has a blinder again, we get our 25+ goals that we need from an individual to almost single handedly see us in the top two. But its horses for courses and there will be some teams and also in-game moments where Pukki wouldn't actually be the best player to lead the line.

5 million for probably somewhere between 8-10 goals would be a poor return if he was to be our starter every week, but when you look at those 8-10 goals in the context of what Pukki an others will hopefully bring to the table it could be huge. It would be 8 goals spread potentially over 8 games where its 0-0 with 10 minutes to go. Could result in a big points increase come the end of the season, which if resulting in promotion would look like pennies. 

 

I think this gets done, and soon. We obviously view him as the missing link and its just the natural back and forth, theres no talk of us walking away like the Mann stuff.

If anyone wants the lottery numbers...

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But lets not forget we're in the Championship now and now still in the glory land. Holt's heroics were many moons ago. We need to hope Pukki gets his scoring touch back, hope Idah gets more game time to show his budding talent (& I for one think he'll score goals this season, but whilst 19 isn't that young, he needs time to grow into the 1st team) Hugill knows this division and can score goals, and give us a more physical presence, something we've lacked for a few years now.

Lets hope we we're strong this season, and IF we get back into the Premiership THEN we can decide who wee think's good enough and who we may want to strengthen. 

It's ridiculous to say "don't buy Hugill cuz he's not good enough for the Premiership, when we're not in it anymore. We've got enough games to get through this season, and Hugill a proven scorer at this level gives me far for confidence working with Pukki & Ida, than sticking with Drmic! But lets just concentrate on the games ahead this season than base it on whether he's good enough for the Premiership   

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1 hour ago, Number9 said:

Even in the highlights reel, majority of his goals were as a result of crosses, is Farke really going to change his tactics to instruct the wide players to get crosses in rather than drifting inside or passing back towards their own goal?

I actually noticed that a fair few were from him running in behind like the classic Pukki/Emi combo. Nice variation of goals and someone who will make the ball stick up the pitch. My fave was him beating that 6 foot 4 defender at the back post to hammer home with his head. We've missed that since Holty really.

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1 hour ago, Number9 said:

I'll be very happy if Hugill settles in quickly and scores lots of goals. 

His career so far though, tells a tale of scoring one goal every 4.2 games with virtually no assists. 

At 28 years of age, is he going to suddenly improve?

Even in the highlights reel, majority of his goals were as a result of crosses, is Farke really going to change his tactics to instruct the wide players to get crosses in rather than drifting inside or passing back towards their own goal?

I'll be happy if he's a success, but I'm not going overboard with 'we're going to win the league' until we see how Farke asks them to play. 

 

Norwich hit about 13 crosses per game last season, QPR about 16 crosses per game. There isn't a huge amount of difference there. Norwich would often cut back when there was a crossing opportunity as slinging one in to Pukki is a bit redundant - that changes if there is someone like Hugill there. Not that he should just be reduced to a 'big man' stereotype, he is pretty quick also and pretty comfortable with both feet - I think some fans may be surprised about how technical he can be.

QPR weren't some long ball merchant team last season, they dominated possession and relied on good build up play and through balls to create most of their chances - Hugill was a large part of this as he offered someone to play with back to goal and help Eze, Chair, Samuel, Wells etc to run off. 

The main thing is though, he won't need any settling in period to adjust the league - which is almost impossible to get if you are only getting 20/30 minutes here and there off the bench. He can hit the ground running and offer a real challenge to Pukki, who definitely needs some kind of jump start to get going again.

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14 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Players develop. If you judge Pukki and Holt what they did before the age of 28, their records would be very unspectacular for this level.

But, coincidentally, we signed them both at that age and they promptly went on to have a fantastic couple of years with us, far beyond what they'd ever showed before.

Holt, when we signed him at 28, had never consistently performed above League Two level. His third tier record when we signed him was 23 goals in 113 games. 

110% this. Iwan Roberts another example going further back. 

Holt had failed at League one level with Forest in his mid 20's. 

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1 hour ago, Il Pirata said:

110% this. Iwan Roberts another example going further back. 

Holt had failed at League one level with Forest in his mid 20's. 

Holt didn't fail at Forest.  He finished his first season on 18 goals and made fans player of the season! His second season he was played out of position in a season where he was not valued as he should have been. 

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