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Jerrykerry

There is a possibility....

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.... In the current environment with money tighter and clubs willing to take less risk, that we don't lose any from pukki, buendia, cantwell, Godfrey, lewis, or aarons. 

Would that be good or bad financially, and in terms of freshening things up? 

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9 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

.... In the current environment with money tighter and clubs willing to take less risk, that we don't lose any from pukki, buendia, cantwell, Godfrey, lewis, or aarons. 

Would that be good or bad financially, and in terms of freshening things up? 

Would be good and if people like Leitner, Trybull, Dr Mic and Vrancic move on we will be stronger than last season.

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3 minutes ago, Jerrykerry said:

.... In the current environment with money tighter and clubs willing to take less risk, that we don't lose any from pukki, buendia, cantwell, Godfrey, lewis, or aarons. 

Would that be good or bad financially, and in terms of freshening things up? 

Have to agree and hope this is the case.  Very good chance but the necessary freshening up is surely the replacement of Stiepermann, Rupp,  McLean, Tettey, Trybull, Leitner and Drmic.

Hopefully the new signings prove an improvement and give our valuable players renewed optimism.    

 

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Do we need to money to survive No

Could we find player of equal ability Yes

However what you are questioning is something that it is out hands as we cannot simply 'cash in'. as you might by selling shares

but it is a measure of how far Webber/Farke (and the club in general) have progressed in the past couple of years, that we find ourselves in such a position

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If no bids match our valuations then they will probably stay. Given our still hefty wages the more important thing is to try and get those mentioned above off our wages if at all possible.

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24 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Have to agree and hope this is the case.  Very good chance but the necessary freshening up is surely the replacement of Stiepermann, Rupp,  McLean, Tettey, Trybull, Leitner and Drmic.

Hopefully the new signings prove an improvement and give our valuable players renewed optimism.    

 

Rupp leaving is neither likely nor ‘freshening up’ since he only joined in January. 

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I’d keep Stiepermann, Rupp definitely as we still need experienced players too. Don’t mind to see the rest go including McClean and Vrancic.

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I don’t think we would have bought in 9/10 players if we did t already know that we could a) exit a few and b) have atleast one of the stars exiting. Even if we are financially ok it would still stress the wage bill at a really uncertain time, I would be amazed if one of the big 6 didn’t go. If I’m honest and despite believing him to be a player of great potential I would be happy with Cantwell going, in my opinion I always think we look better when one of our wingers has pace and out of Buendia/Cantwell as the other choice I would still go for Emi. We also have a couple of options for Lewis now, although I do think he is a great player too. The loss of Aaron’s, Godfrey, Buendia or Pukki hurts us more in my opinion. 

if we could get c35-40m for Cantwell and Lewis, move on Drmic, trybull, Leitner, Heise and use it to bring in a 2nd goalie, a centre forward and maybe another centre half then I think we would have done really well in this window. 

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It was never a possibility.  In the current covid situation, if Webber's words are to be believed, no-one was going to have enough cash for any of our jewels.  It was always probable in my view because of their "failure" last year.  January might be different mind if we're doing well.

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50 minutes ago, Indy said:

I’d keep Stiepermann, Rupp definitely as we still need experienced players too. Don’t mind to see the rest go including McClean and Vrancic.

I'd be happy to see Leitner, Trybull, Vrancic and Drmic leave although the first three are proven at this level and it'll be a bit of a shame to see them go. Heise's on loan at least and will surely not play for us again. Stiepi's well worth keeping another season as I suspect he could be key in getting Pukki going again, not to mention he was so oddly effective in the Championship last time out. I could be persuaded on McLean going if Sorensen looks the part in defensive midfield. Increasingly Rupp looks like he might get asked to play there a bit as well.

If, and it is a fair old if, Rupp is being told to play back there, maybe McLean's going to get pushed further up to replace Stiepermann in the hole?

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I think, despite the assertion that we don't have to sell, we will be happy to sell a couple.

Despite our success two seasons ago, we lost a large amount of money. And despite the parachute payments, we have a large squad taking wages.

You can never have too much money. Just before lockdown, it was strongly rumoured that 5 Championship were in danger of points deductions. Wigan have been sentenced. But four more would mean a fifth of the division in possible financial ruin.

As much as I would love to see them all stay, I think would make sense to cash in on a couple.

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I think we're in a win win situation. Webber wouldn't have spent the money he has just assuming several of the youngsters leave, particularly in the current climate.

As ever with football there are variables to be wary of. I guess if we can't shift a few off the wage bill and we're outside the top six come January, we might look a bit shaky. I don't think that's likely though.

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Can’t see Buendia and Cantwell both being here come the start of the season. The transfer window will get up to speed very soon. 

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47 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd be happy to see Leitner, Trybull, Vrancic and Drmic leave although the first three are proven at this level and it'll be a bit of a shame to see them go. Heise's on loan at least and will surely not play for us again. Stiepi's well worth keeping another season as I suspect he could be key in getting Pukki going again, not to mention he was so oddly effective in the Championship last time out. I could be persuaded on McLean going if Sorensen looks the part in defensive midfield. Increasingly Rupp looks like he might get asked to play there a bit as well.

If, and it is a fair old if, Rupp is being told to play back there, maybe McLean's going to get pushed further up to replace Stiepermann in the hole?

With Cantwell, Sinani and Dowell I don’t think we would need to push McClean forward and Tettey, Sorensen and Skipp I don’t think we would miss McClean too much in CM either. But agree want to see Drmic, Leitner, Vrancic  and Trybull off the books.

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I think this theory about transfer fees dropping and clubs being tighter with their funds is a bit of a myth to be honest, or just a bargaining chip by buying clubs in negotiations.

If you look at the fees paid across Europe for the bigger transfers that have already been made this summer, they don't appear to have been affected by covid at all.

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1 hour ago, Mr.Carrow said:

I think we're in a win win situation. Webber wouldn't have spent the money he has just assuming several of the youngsters leave, particularly in the current climate.

As ever with football there are variables to be wary of. I guess if we can't shift a few off the wage bill and we're outside the top six come January, we might look a bit shaky. I don't think that's likely though.

I would be surprised if the Webber assumption, given  all these lovely incomings, has not been that there will be at least one high-price departure among the many others needed to get the squad down. 

Also, predictably,  having held out - correctly - for a fair price for Lewis, other clubs are now seemingly doing the Same to us. 

Aprpos nothing, just watched Killing Eve for the first time. Serious question - how is it people thought this was good?! 

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I think the club will be banking on selling at least one but I agree it feels increasingly likely that more of them may be here than leave. Perhaps that’s just wishful thinking but if that’s what transpires then we will have a fantastic squad this season. 
 

I see even Leicester being linked with a player other than Lewis to replace Chillwell. Seems clubs are seeking value abroad this summer. 

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Posted (edited)

They could well stay, I'm pretty sure one of our top players will go this summer at least, probably Aarons. But realistically with us having a few injury prone players, a very congested fixture list and with the looming thread of a wave of covid sweeping through our squad I think for one season at least it would be very smart to take the financial hit and try to carry a squad of 30 odd first team players, then if we don't go up, sell the players next summer when teams will be more willing to spend money. 

 

If we didn't sell anyone beyond Leitner, Trybull and Drmic it it's reasonable to assume everyone else in the squad will still get plenty of game time this year given how tight the schedule is and that Farke likes cup competitions. Having such a large squad could be the advantage we need this year over every other team and make a real difference for us when it starts to become a real grind and every team is carrying injuries and squads full of tired players, we could freshen up game by game and not lose much or any individual quality by doing so, unlike most teams in this league who lack strength in depth. 

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I think this theory about transfer fees dropping and clubs being tighter with their funds is a bit of a myth to be honest, or just a bargaining chip by buying clubs in negotiations.

If you look at the fees paid across Europe for the bigger transfers that have already been made this summer, they don't appear to have been affected by covid at all.

The market is definitely slower this summer.

Liverpool have shown that some clubs have completely changed their recruitment strategies and dramatically reduced budgets. Other teams will plough on regardless to try and take advantage of other teams stepping back. Chelsea have used Liverpool’s caution to nab Werner and they are aggressively trying to get Havertz as they know in a normal window another team would gazump them in such a deal. 

Things will speed up as the window draws to a close (as normal) and some clubs start to get a bit of ‘FOMO’. 

A global recession will impact on clubs transfer spending and amount of wages they are prepared to offer. That is just the natural order of things. 

Edited by Bethnal Yellow and Green

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9 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Aprpos nothing, just watched Killing Eve for the first time. Serious question - how is it people thought this was good?! 

Emperor’s New Clothes syndrome.

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It's been widely reported that we will have a 20 million pound hole in the finances, due to COVID. When we will feel the impact of that remains to be seen. It could be that we are financially fine for now, but the situation may change when the next couple of transfer windows come around.

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We're basically relying on EPL clubs to buy our players and with the 25 man squad restriction essentially we are talking one in one out. With very little transfer movement so far there just isn't the scope for moves to happen. Chilwell may create a vacancy.

I think we're more likely to sell the likes of McLean, Vrancic, Stiepermann, Drmic etc as they won't be moving to the EPL. We'll need to sell someone though as the squad is well bloated, especially in midfield.

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Whilst I think we will sell a couple of the young'uns, I think that it will be more difficult that usual because:

- Clubs will use COVID as a means to lower the price, whether they are affected or not.

- Smaller clubs around the world will be genuinely struggling financially, which will lower the going rate.

- There does seem to have been an increase in young English players this season. When any of our players are discussed, you can find a few other alternatives.

If we manage to keep hold of them all, it will give us an amazing squad - which will be needed - for next season.

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Dont quite see the clamour to usher Steipermann and Vrancic out of the door?..we saw how effective Steiperman was in the championship last time and if Pukki is staying was a good foil.He should at least be given the chance to show he can do it again. Whilst in Vrancic we have a 10 goals a season midfielder in this league.

I'm not convinced we should even be getting rid of Trybull for this level

Sadly and predictibly the writing appears to be on the wall regarding Farke's midfield favourites and we'll probably start the season with McLean and Rupp in midfield

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7 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Dont quite see the clamour to usher Steipermann and Vrancic out of the door?..we saw how effective Steiperman was in the championship last time and if Pukki is staying was a good foil.He should at least be given the chance to show he can do it again. Whilst in Vrancic we have a 10 goals a season midfielder in this league.

I'm not convinced we should even be getting rid of Trybull for this level

Sadly and predictibly the writing appears to be on the wall regarding Farke's midfield favourites and we'll probably start the season with McLean and Rupp in midfield

With Stiepermann and Vrancic I think it is their age that works against them. Vrancic in particular will be 32 at the end of the season and his contract also runs out then. If Norwich don’t sell him this season, he will go for a free next summer. As he’s already a bit part player then it seems sensible for him to be sold - especially as there is known interest in him from Germany.

Dowell has come in and seems a logical replacement to Stiepermann - same position,  left footed, 6ft and likes a long shot etc. 

Farke likes to work with a relatively small squad and there have been a lot of players coming in. Something has to give and Trybull, Leitner, Drmic, Stiepermann and Vrancic seem the most logical outgoings. All were players who saw limited game time last season (and some weren’t regular players in the season before that). 

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1 hour ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

The market is definitely slower this summer.

Liverpool have shown that some clubs have completely changed their recruitment strategies and dramatically reduced budgets. Other teams will plough on regardless to try and take advantage of other teams stepping back. Chelsea have used Liverpool’s caution to nab Werner and they are aggressively trying to get Havertz as they know in a normal window another team would gazump them in such a deal. 

Things will speed up as the window draws to a close (as normal) and some clubs start to get a bit of ‘FOMO’. 

A global recession will impact on clubs transfer spending and amount of wages they are prepared to offer. That is just the natural order of things. 

I'll give you that it's a bit slower, but looking at the fees paid for the bigger done deals, it doesn't appear that covid has made much impact on fees.

As you say, maybe it is a case of some teams trying to be ambitious and steal a march on others, but I still think that by the beginning of October we'll see a lot of top players moving for the same numbers they would have done before covid.

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11 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I'll give you that it's a bit slower, but looking at the fees paid for the bigger done deals, it doesn't appear that covid has made much impact on fees.

As you say, maybe it is a case of some teams trying to be ambitious and steal a march on others, but I still think that by the beginning of October we'll see a lot of top players moving for the same numbers they would have done before covid.

Fair enough, but dont you think there is going to be a two speed transfer market? Clubs with big TV revenues, big sponsorship deals and decent cash reserves versus those who are more heavily reliant on match day income? Whereas big clubs around Europe will be only moderately impacted, mid sized clubs may either wish or have to hold on to cash. So we may see some big fees at the top end, but the proportion of that transfer income spent by the seller on a replacement player for the position may decrease.

For Norwich this could cause two difficulties, mid table premiership clubs may be more reluctant to spend on our better players ie Lewis, Emi etc, they will make do with a cheaper player or offer less than our valuation and Championship clubs (or its equivalent league in whichever market the player already has a name for themselves in) wont have the money to take players like Vrancic of our hands on their current wages or for a decent price.

Loaning a few out, perhaps at a loss, maybe our best option in the current market. Not sure if anyone else has noticed if the numbers of loanees looks set to increase or not?

 

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It’s clear that Leitner, Drmic, Trybull are not really part of the plan, I also think Stiepermann, McClean, Klose and Hanley if the right price are on the out list, then we have he 5 youngsters who no doubt are in the shop window but only if the price is right.

Those who’ve been bought in are all here to push on, a good age and experience, so I would hope we see an improvement in our performance from last year.

But we might have a financial shortfall to cover and even with wage cuts we need to move players on for the good of finances, dressing room attitude and to freshen a losing mentality.

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2 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Fair enough, but dont you think there is going to be a two speed transfer market? Clubs with big TV revenues, big sponsorship deals and decent cash reserves versus those who are more heavily reliant on match day income? Whereas big clubs around Europe will be only moderately impacted, mid sized clubs may either wish or have to hold on to cash. So we may see some big fees at the top end, but the proportion of that transfer income spent by the seller on a replacement player for the position may decrease.

I do feel this is true, but the clubs who are all allegedly sniffing around our best players are clubs (both domestic and overseas) who are competing in European competition or are 'safe' Premier League clubs. For this reason, I see no reason why we wouldn't/shouldn't hold out for pre-covid prices, and I think we'd probably get those prices for a couple of them.

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15 hours ago, Jerrykerry said:

.... In the current environment with money tighter and clubs willing to take less risk, that we don't lose any from pukki, buendia, cantwell, Godfrey, lewis, or aarons. 

Would that be good or bad financially, and in terms of freshening things up? 

That is a good possibility but would we really want it that way? for every Madison there is a Murphy. With Madison the club was in a poor financial state a matter not to be forgotten and his money set the finances in order and enabled a prudent re build ending in promotion. I am sure if we had been in a better financial state we would have kept him and in his case i am sure he would have gone for a lot more in due course. With the Murphy twins with a mixture of good management and good fortune we got rid of them for the most they will probably ever go for i suspect their value is less than half of what we got. As for all our youngsters i think you need to weigh up what they are worth and what  either they or the fee they could be sold for helps us in the championship. Of all our players i feel Lewis, Aaronns and Cantwell are possibly  the easiest to replace in the championship and that we have good player options and that their value now may be at the top of the curve, no one really knows. So in summary i think your assessment is a possibility but not necessarily the best thing for our club 

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