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Yellas

policing

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After checking out the message board (it''s been a while) I noticed the above subject!

A message to the club, chill the police out, why have they all of a sudden become idiots, they used to be ok, harassing fans who appear to be only singing and getting behind the lads with maybe the occcasional friendly gesture to the away support (let''s face it man we all lose it sometimes and do it) is a bit much aint it.

Let us enjoy our time when we r at a match and not worry about u lot breathing down our necks, its not needed. Basically to the boys in their uniforms, u need to relax a little. let the stewards tell us to sit down, it is there job not yours.

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All this crap about the police and stewards chilling or relaxing is completely beside the point - there''s a law there, for which the club can be punished if it''s not adhered to - the stewards are paid to uphold that law - if you ignore them and stand constantly you''re breaking it. Therefore don''t complain when they refer it higher.

If you sit you don''t get hassle...it''s very simple. You''ve paid for a seat - sit on it!

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You are right there is a law. To highlight this Charlton have started an appeal through the courts against their local council who have decided to reduce ticket sales to Manyoo fans by 600 as they (manU) refused to sit down last season. This has no impact on Manyoo but hits a medium size club in the pocket as a result of the behaviour of an opposing teams fans.

City cannot afford to have any part of the ground closed on this basis - it would affect the atmosphere and hit the club in the pocket.

However there are ways an means of ensuring that the crowd comply and this should start with better communication between the club/police/fans over what is and is not acceptable when it comes to standing, rather than an unexpected enforcement which inevitably brings about a heated dispute.

OTBC

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The only trouble with this forum is I cant see who Yellas note is responding too - if its me then sorry, I''m afraid not - Barclay season ticket & standing proud and loud.

However if there is an ongoing issue that could affect the club then I am sure we can find a way around the laws to keep everyone, police, fans, club etc happy.

My point was that there is a real issue here, not an imagined one, that can affect the club where it hurts - ie in the pocket and so eventually on the pitch - and none of us want that.

Y''Army

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No, I''m Barclay too. But I understand the concept of sitting. This isn''t 1976 anymore.

At the end of the day, what are you achieving by ignoring the stewards? It just creates a nasty atmosphere between the fans, the stewards and the police...oh that''s what''s happening...

And how would you feel if you were ignored all the time doing your job? It ain''t big and it ain''t clever...

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What''s interesting here is if you look at the true cause of the problem.

Regulations dictate that grounds in our league are all-seater. No special dispensations are granted for standing areas.

Ground regulations at Carrow Road, as at many stadia, state that persistent standing will result in eviction from the ground. I believe this is closely related to the safety certificate granted to stadia by the authorities.

If clubs, hence stewards, hence police do nothing about it, the ground theoretically can have its safety certificate revoked and ultimately ''closed''.

Whether you agree or not with the regulations - those are the facts.

I for one, do not agree with the regulations, as I feel that there is more than a case for re-introducing safe terracing at grounds.

I spent all of my early years standing in South, River and Barclay and was appalled by the early introduction of seating into the new Barclay during Chase''s politically motivated reign.

At the time of the Taylor Report, no one was listening to the fans saying that terracing was not inherently unsafe. Terraces on their own didn''t cause all those deaths of Liverpool fans.

Well designed and managed terraces are perfectly safe and their re-introduction would solve the basic problem we are seeing in this discussion - that of personal choice.

Fact - some people like to stand, some like to sit.

It would be interesting to see if people were prepared to pay the same to stand as to sit - we are all now aclimatised to the prices we now pay.

The atmosphere has changed since all-seater, some would say for the better, some for the worse.

I don''t think that anyone can say the atmosphere in the Lower Barclay and Snakepit in non-existent, and no-one stops you getting to your feet during an attack, goal celebration, controversial incident etc.

However, with current rules and regulations, I cannot support persistent standing even when the perpetrator is the ''victim'' of having people standing in front of them. The case is that the club should be more vociferous in stating the rules and the impact for the club, and stewarding / police tactics should tackle the problem from the front - its simple logic that if people at the front sit down, people behind will follow.

In the case of overheated stewardship or policing of the regulations - write to the club and/or police asking for a response. They are responsible for their actions just as much as the supporters. A calm and considered approach to the issue is required from all sides before things have the potential to get out of hand.

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I agree withg nmtd statement to a certain extent you have valid points, as i sit right on the back row in the lower barclay i not once this season have sat down as everyone in front of me is standing. It''s unfair for me to pay for a season ticket then sit down when clearly i arent going to see the game, it wont happen mate.

also when most of the barclay is sitting down the amosphere IS non existent compared to when most of the barclay are standing, how come stewards and poilce dont moan at fans to sit down during derby matches? not once have i seen the barclay seated when we r playing them down the road!!

i am not saying that stewards and police don''t have a job to do because it is clear they have, stewards at carrow road i havent got a problem with, it''s the poilce, their attitude this season towards some fans are out of order. we all want to support our team that''s why we are there, if they talked to us with respect rather than ''i''m a poilceman and u will do what i say'' attitude maybe their relationship with the fans would be better. my point is at the moment they are doing themselves no favours and if they continue to treat fans the way they have been, fans will make it even more diffucult for them to do their jobs.

I for one would be prepared to pay the same for standing but it isnt going to happen. it''s alright for people to say poilce have a job to do, but if a member of public wouldve spoke to some people the way they did at the wimbledon match they wouldve got a smack in the mouth! all i ask for is a bit of respect nothing more.

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Yellas, I have every sympathy for you - i''m just trying to highlight a ''tactic'' you could take.

Its totally inappropriate for stewards or police to ask people standing right at the back to sit down if people in front are still standing.

Back in the mid/late 80''s, before the new Barclay, I supported from the centre pen of the Barclay. During this time, up until about 2 mins before kickoff a small area used to be taped off - as this was the area that the most vociferous fans, myself included, always wanted to go - it was our patch so to speak. Now the tactics of taping this area off was very dangerous - when the tape was removed there was always a stampeded into the area. Game after game I used to complain about this and once I got slammed against the back of the Barclay by a copper just for saying how stupid it was.

At the time, this didn''t impress me much I can tell you, and I wrote about it my fanzine and sent a copy to both the club and the chief of Norfolk police stating the number of the copper that treated me this way.

Never again was the area taped off - so it obviously did some good.

So - that''s my message to you - complain - its your right to be treated fairly and with respect, but you have to get your message across whilst coming at it from their point of view.

Now I wish it was still possible for people to stand on safe terracing - but unfortunately it not the case. Bearing in mind the current regulations you need to come at it from the angle that you are more than happy to comply (even if you''re not really) if people in front of you sit down.

Regarding atmosphere - I agree with you - but I cannot see what can be done whilst we have to sit down. It''s an old argument that has existed since the Taylor Report.

Now I have a young lad who comes with me, I support from the Snakepit (no family enclosure for me - that really is dead!).

I hope you can get a satisfactory response to your problem.

OTBC

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Having had the "treatment" from the police at the rotherham game, which prompted my first e mail on this subject, Ii adopted a different tactic at the Wimbledon game (under threat of arrest for persistent standing) and did indeed sit for all of the game. Result, saw very little at all of the game from row Q, E BLOCK........ decision to take for next home game therefore has to be to stand and risk arrest / ejection otherwise Iwill end up having paid £300 to see practically nothing during a season!
The police tactics are wrong, and I think that regular supporters will know the reason why... think about sending in "new" faces, with a smile on their face... how about a female... she might get a fairer deal and hopefully would not get the scum scum treatment on leaving e block as her colleague did on Tuesday.
Yes, the police are there to do a job. Yes the stewards are there to do a job... and we, the fans are there to support the team and quite frankly, I find it a bit hard to be vocal sitting down... I am not the only one.
One final thought... can the club let us know how many people have been injured both at Carrow Road and indeed accross the country for standing in a seated area... I am at a loss to see how it is dangerous to anyone.
Re the earlier e mail "you paid for a seat..sit on it "... definitely a river ender... enjoy your season , and don''t forget your tartan rug and flask of tea... winter draws on.

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Having sat/stood in every stand at Carrow Road - ooh don''t I get around! - I fail to see how being a "river ender" has any bearing on the overall thread of this arguement.

I was once threatened with arrest outside the Barclay for "looking as though I was up to something" - OK so the dodgy squint and odd limp made me look a bit strange, but we all have to accept that Norfolk''s finest do have a job to do and by standing up continually and ignoring ground regulations that ultimately could have a major effect on the club and supporters, you are not doing yourselves any favours. You said it yourself - when seated you hardly saw the Wimbledon game - why? Because all the "Barclay Boys" were being really naughty and were standing up - get them to sit down and you''ll see the game!

Sorry if this sounds a bit like a rant, but I can''t see what the problem is - it''s been a long while since Hillsborough and the Taylor report - by now we should have been able to get the hang of sitting down!

Oh, and I don''t sit anywhere now - the name gives it away, I''m only a part-time plastic Norwich fan living in Liverpool - so don''t be calling me a River Ender - give me the Main Stand any day!!!!

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